Should people with relatively minor health conditions be allowed in the military?

[Nakura Chambers]

You have no idea how extensive Military medical examinations are, my initial medical tests took 3 days, they poke and probe every orifice. Someone with a serious heart condition cannot get away with lying about it.

Things like a heart defect, sure, but things like fibromyalgia?

[Deleted]

even people with little to no peripheral vision? o.O

You will need to speak to a Military Doctor about that, I do know for a fact that your peripheral vision is regularly tested though.

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Things like a heart defect, sure, but things like fibromyalgia?

That would be discovered the first time you strap on a bergen.

[Crissi]

You will need to speak to a Military Doctor about that, I do know for a fact that your peripheral vision is regularly tested though.

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That would be discovered the first time you strap on a bergen.

interesting...

its why i choose may cars based on how big their mirrors are. I have to actively turn my head like an owl to see things to my sides. lols. HOOT HOOT!

[Halyon]

It wouldn't cost that much or take up much space to have a separate group of rations that provide sufficient nutrients for diabetics. You could even make them taste terrible on purpose, as to prevent them from receive special treatment.

Or you can not deploy diabetics in case of an emergency were access to their special food is somehow blocked.

[Deleted]

You have no idea how extensive Military medical examinations are, my initial medical tests took 3 days, they poke and probe every orifice. Someone with a serious heart condition cannot get away with lying about it.

also, surely if you had a heart condition it would be discovered pretty quickly during basic training

[Halyon]

OT; I don't consider anyone with any disorder should be accepted into any kind of field operative position should be allowed. You need the best physical condition for optimal usage.

[Deleted]

they poke and probe every orifice.

Are you certain you were in the right place?

Ontopic, no. Your example of diabetes is a bit off. There are several diabetics in my family and not getting what they need causes all sorts of shit from mild sweating and nausea to a full on panic and/or rage fit. It doesn't matter if they signed some sort of waiver as you alluded to in your other thread that would say "it's my problem if I die to this" - what happens if someone like my uncle (who goes berserk mode if he mis-manages his diabetes, which would 100% happen if he was living on rations/no food at all for a few days) starts acting up in the field and kills/causes the death of a comrade?

[Christan]

i said case by case basis,
i've Gout...i don't think i'd be good infantry at all lol, but i'd of loved a chance to be a communications officer, cryptologist or something...

but with the gout wasn't even going to be able to pass basic training....insomnia would of played a roll but could of taken meds during...
in the US, they turn far to many people away i believe...because a few people with mental problems made it through the ropes, and went on killing spree's (multiple people over time)
i understand...bad PR to train someone and have them kill innocents...but i'm positive they turn away TO many people who would be a massive benefit...

Ontopic, no. Your example of diabetes is a bit off. There are several diabetics in my family and not getting what they need causes all sorts of shit from mild sweating and nausea to a full on panic and/or rage fit.

.you forgot to mention bleeding...diabetics usually won't stop bleeding by themselves and need a clotting agent applied to the wound, as well as nerve endings in their ankles and feet deadening over time(necrotizing fasciitis)

diabetic also wouldn't be able to join the infantry to risky...maybe airforce, if you get shot down guess what? you're dead anyway (if you eject with seconds to spare you might get a bit bruised but no open wounds to bleed out from)

also air force for a diabetic means you are always landing your plane on friendly ground, so you'd have meds available, unlike a platoon moving in stealth that can't get more resources dropped on them or risk alerting the enemy

[Euphonious Monk]

Military admissions standards, at least in the US, shift depending on how many billets there are to fill. A few years back, you could get in with a GED, a drug conviction, and maybe some minor medical issues (although never diabetes - they can't guarantee you'll get insulin in the field, and if they do get it to you, they can't guarantee temperatures low enough that it won't die and lose its effectiveness). Now the services are drawing down and the minimum requirements are becoming more stringent. It's just the way it works.

[Duronos]

Under the current system, people just lie about and hide their medical conditions to get in. Wouldn't a better system be one where both parties are honest and work together to come to an arrangement in cases where it's possible to do so?

You can lie about your mental health past, they aren't going to find that out unless you're trying to get a Top Secret clearance in which case you must have a whole new life where nobody knows your past. That new life has to be years and years in the making and you have to be able to pass a lie detector test which would take a lot of practice. You can't hide diabetes, they will find that at MEPS.

Also kids are often misdiagnosed with disorders because a parent describes worse than they might be. I've seen it, it happened to me and funny story... Was at the ER recently because I thought I was coughing up blood, figured out midway through while in the waiting room that the roof of my mouth felt bruised so I just got up and left. I'm also really healthy so coughing up blood made no sense in the first place. Back to the story, it had in the system that I had Aspergers as I had been there before when I was younger and the woman and I were talking and she right on the spot was like, "how were you diagnosed with Asperger's?" and took out of the system right on the spot. I was just like, "Thank you", many people don't understand, I was told I had all these problems and I felt like I was retarded because people were labeling me with this and that.

Did you fucking know that there is a disorder called, misconduct disorder? Because I (back when I was 16) hit my mother back after she beat me the day before and the next day she slapped me and I was just sick of it, felt like I was being treated like shit and got arrested for it... She lied to the cops saying she never hit me (I don't bruise easily like she does). Next time I went to a somebody they diagnosed me with that disorder, you have to understand, people like me will lie about that kind of stuff because I know personally that I'm not that bad of a person. I don't care, I'm joining the military and they have no idea about my medical past because I said no to everything and they won't find out anything at MEPS because I'm as healthy as whatever the fuck is considered healthy.

Also my mother was never diagnosed with any disorders, horseshit how I was and she could just be viewed as the innocent victim.

[Deleted]

The soldier can carrier an extra ration or two (as well as insulin) in his backpack, just to be on the safe side.

You're already running around with 100 pounds of stuff on your back.

Certain roles they do such as pilot, other roles they are pretty lax in their vision standards. They will even allow colour blind people into certain positions.

Iirc correctly, some colour blind people have an easier time seeing camouflage.

diabetic also wouldn't be able to join the infantry to risky...maybe airforce, if you get shot down guess what? you're dead anyway (if you eject with seconds to spare you might get a bit bruised but no open wounds to bleed out from)

Airforce would be even less suited. If they get a problem in the air, that's a several million dollar plane lost and a dead pilot.

[Duronos]

To clarify, Air Force is mostly desk jobs, pilots aren't the majority and the people that work in the field in the Air Force are Special Operations.

[DEATHETERNAL]

If you define diabetes as "relatively minor", then no. People with "relatively minor" health conditions should not be allowed in the military.

[Kellhound]

As it stands, you can ask for a waiver for a minor condition, and based on medical exams, job being sought, and the needs of the military, it may be granted.

[Simulacrum]

They should be allowed to serve if letting them serve is more cost-effective than stepping up recruitment efforts to fill spots they'd otherwise fill.

But if you already have enough recruits then it makes sense to weed out as many risk factors as you can.

[Deleted]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwK3VkbxLLU

Pretty much says it all. Gtfo health conditions.

[Duronos]

Back in the day guys in the Army were getting DUI's and it never mattered at all, was viewed as something minor. Nowadays you get a DUI in or out of the Army then you get fucked.

[Deleted]

If it doesn't affect them doing their MOS, then why not let them serve, once it becomes an issue give them the option to change MOS to a more suitable job or give them a medical discharge.

If they are trying to enlist and they pass the tests required both physically and mentally what is wrong with that?

Because it costs a lot of money to train someone to the level where they are combat ready. If they can only serve for a couple of years before being discharged with a hefty pension and benefits then what is the point? No I think the conditions for entering the military are fine as they are. (I couldn't get into the British armed forces due to a heart murmur)

[Deleted]

One of the big reasons not to let people with health conditions in the army, is that they have higher chance of dropping out. Training soldiers is not cheap, and spending a ton of money on something you are not getting your money's worth on is not that smart. The army is not there to offer job opportunities to people, it is there to do it's job as cost effectively as possible.

Exhibit A.

I was dumb fuck and didn't tell the army doctors about my health conditions during the first week medical tests because I thought I could handle it, and take a guess what happened? I was in training for 3 months and then ended up dropping out. During those 3 all I did was waste the army's money.

May I ask what health conditions you had?

[Duronos]

May I ask what health conditions you had?

I'm wondering the same, Basic isn't all that hard. You just do your best not to stand out and be able to handle a bit of shouting here and there.