[Resto] Druid Guide - 5.4

[Roia]

I recently removed "Healing Touch" from my raid toolkit entirely. The first week of SoO, when 2 healing fights, certain ones me and a shaman would be struggling to keep up the tanks. There was many cases where they would just die in between my Healing Touch casts, even though I was spamming them to keep them alive. For the next week I did some research and found most druids now don't even use Healing Touch anymore. Putting in the numbers, HT was still slightly more mana efficient in HPM, but RG was had much better HPS. I decided to just give it a try for next raiding week and healed strictly with RG w/ the glyph. Although I did notice my mana being drained slightly faster, my healing numbers in practice improved by quite a bit. We also pretty much one shot everything and the tanks died a lot less often.

[Sprucelee]

I feel like the problem is that you're only comparing it to other druid spells while I'm looking at all classes. If you're only looking at druid spells then yes, Regrowth is still the best single-target, non-instant spell in the toolkit. It's still not good compared to other single-target, non-instant spells outside the Druid toolkit. If we're talking about healing something like challenge modes where you're the only healer, it becomes important to evaluate only within your own class. When it's a raid effort or any other kind of larger group, it becomes less important.



And I would point out that it would be nice if you did more than skim through posts before you reply. All these things have been addressed already.

Sorry man, Regrowth is a very important part of our tool-kit and any druid who does not regularly use it is doing his raid a disservice. Not just with CC's, but actively tank healing and to triage critical targets as needed.

People have already explained how it fits within out took-kit, and you accept that... good. But now you are backpedaling and comparing it to other classes. That is wrong on a few levels. First, there is 10-man, where no one can ignore triage or tank healing, period. But even in 25-man, if you are going to actively ignore triage, and just expect other classes to cover all tank healing and direct heals, your raid will suffer and more people will die. First off, there are quite a few 4 heal fights this teir, and fights where you even split to 2-3 heals (Spoils). Second, there are simply just fights that demand direct heals, like Malkorok, getting a low barrier back to a strong barrier ASAP is critical, and regrowth is one of the best spells for this. But in general, being good at triage is what can separate an average healer from a great healer. It seems like you just want to play your Druid like a HoT bot, with little attention to saves, and IMO that is just bad play.

[Siri]

When this started out, I had two points.

1. Regrowth is not a good spell.
2. Regrowth is not used often.

I've explained point 1 by saying that I do a cross-class comparison. If you don't understand why this is important for an overall evaluation of any given spell I'm not going to be the one to explain it to you and we'll just have to agree to disagree. I still agree that the spell should be used, even if only because the other choices are just flat out worse.

As for the second point. I guess often is a point of view but just browsing your latest public logs on WoL (for which you were on the kills) I get this:

Immerseus: 8 times in 5 minutes.
Sha of Pride: 17 times in 7.5 minutes.
Galakras: 17 times in 11.5 minutes.
Iron Juggernaut: 8 times in 7 minutes.
Dark Shamans: 9 times in 8.75 minutes.
Nazgrim: 8 times in 10.25 minutes.
Malkorok 8 times in 5.75 minutes.

Almost one and a half cast per minute on average, and in my experience the usage on 10man is not that much higher. If you want to call that anything other than "Not often", I guess that's up to you. I'm going to maintain my view on it though.

And with that, I am o-u-t of this discussion. I feel the subject has been exhausted at this point. You know where my PM box is if you want to tell me anything.

[Purpleisbetter]

I'm around 555ish gear and i can't get the 13k BP (everyslots i picked up is basically spirit mastery).

How much am i loosing because of this? (10m).

I know i can't do much about it yet, but i'd like to know what i'm missing.

[Aoroc]

Ok then, here goes:

When this started out, I had two points.

1. Regrowth is not a good spell. - Which has been proven false.
2. Regrowth is not used often. - Which has also been proven false.

I've explained point 1 by saying that I do a cross-class comparison. (Which you never even bothered to mention until just a post or so ago and it feels more like a cop out that you don't want to admit that you gave bad advice originally, not an actual reason.) If you don't understand why this is important for an overall evaluation of any given spell I'm not going to be the one to explain it to you (Now you refuse to back up your reasoning, because you can't.) and we'll just have to agree to disagree. (There's nothing to disagree about, we're having a discussion about facts, which you can't disagree with.) I still agree that the spell should be used, even if only because the other choices are just flat out worse.

As for the second point. I guess often is a point of view but just browsing your latest public logs on WoL (for which you were on the kills) I get this: (The reason you get numbers like that when looking at the top logs, is because the top logs are the top because RJ blanketing is a higher HPS playstyle. There are plenty of adequate druids that use RG far more often. Look simply at the number of CC procs a druid would get during a fight. Every one of those should be spent on RG, and it's not uncommon to use RG outside of CC procs either. I can tell you I get far more than 8 procs in 5 minutes, or 17 in 7.5 minutes, so those druids are clearly playing a specific niche or are trying to rank. And yes, 10 man would be higher, especially when 2 healing, due to the tank healing requirements in progression.)

Immerseus: 8 times in 5 minutes.
Sha of Pride: 17 times in 7.5 minutes.
Galakras: 17 times in 11.5 minutes.
Iron Juggernaut: 8 times in 7 minutes.
Dark Shamans: 9 times in 8.75 minutes.
Nazgrim: 8 times in 10.25 minutes.
Malkorok 8 times in 5.75 minutes.

Almost one and a half cast per minute on average, and in my experience the usage on 10man is not that much higher. If you want to call that anything other than "Not often", I guess that's up to you. I'm going to maintain my view on it though.

And with that, I am o-u-t of this discussion. I feel the subject has been exhausted at this point. You know where my PM box is if you want to tell me anything. Again, it just feels like you're copping out, literally every single person in this thread and probably on this forum would tell you that you are wrong, yet you still insist on claiming you're right. Go to sites other than mmochamp, look at their resto guides, their blogs, post on their forums, everyone would tell you the same thing.

The reason you've been attacked so hard is because you gave advice to a player who was unclear on the subject, and you gave him POOR ADVICE. That's the point everyone is trying to drive home. If you have a slightly odd ball way of using RG than most druids, great, but you gave bad advice to another player, and this place is supposed to be a place where we help people, and that's what everyone was trying to get across, to ensure that you did't get the wrong message across to that other guy.

[Wildmoon]

Could anyone inform me about SotF vs Incarnation? Is SotF better than Incarnation or even worth choosing?

[Trubo]

Don't recall seeing if this was corrected but does anyone know if the issue of Nature's Swiftness consuming Sage Mender stacks if used to cast Healing Touch?

[DetectiveJohnKimble]

Why anyone would use Glyph of Regrowth outside of very specific fights where you only use Roar on a stacked part of the fight (Malkorok, possibly Garrosh) is beyond my understanding. Being able to assist DPS to complete tasks faster is of far greater usefulness than an extra 20%ish chance to crit with Regrowth. To "recommend" Glyph of Regrowth is weird, but I guess if you're only concerned with pure healing/meters it's fine.

[Siri]

Because being able to rely on the spell to critically hit is nice.

[Alltat]

Could anyone inform me about SotF vs Incarnation? Is SotF better than Incarnation or even worth choosing?

Incarnation is somewhat useful, and is flexible in that you can use it either for throughput or to conserve mana (as Lifebloom is cheap). The downside is that it doesn't really provide that much of a throughput increase and that the cooldown is pretty long. Soul of the Forest provides more overall healing, but obviously more spread out over a fight. Like Incarnation, it's pretty versatile and provides both throughput and mana efficiency (when your WG heals for twice as much, you need fewer rejuvs). It really comes down to whether you want a bit more burst every 3 minutes or a bit more healing all the time. I used to go with Incarnation, but switched to SotF as we have so many other throughput cooldowns anyway and this tier has relatively few burn phases.

Why anyone would use Glyph of Regrowth outside of very specific fights where you only use Roar on a stacked part of the fight (Malkorok, possibly Garrosh) is beyond my understanding.

Two reasons. The first is that you'll be casting a lot of Regrowths during CC/meta procs, and getting a guaranteed Living Seed proc each time means free healing even if the RG wasn't needed (the overhealing on LS tends to be fairly low). The second is that it gives you the biggest possible "flash" heal for when someone drops low, allowing you to stabilize people much more reliably. Saving a damage dealer from death is a much bigger boost to raid DPS than being able to sometimes make them move a bit faster. While Glyph of Stampeding Roar does have its uses, a little bit of movement speed every three minutes is generally going to be less useful than reliably higher healing for the entire fight.

[Wildmoon]

Incarnation is somewhat useful, and is flexible in that you can use it either for throughput or to conserve mana (as Lifebloom is cheap). The downside is that it doesn't really provide that much of a throughput increase and that the cooldown is pretty long. Soul of the Forest provides more overall healing, but obviously more spread out over a fight. Like Incarnation, it's pretty versatile and provides both throughput and mana efficiency (when your WG heals for twice as much, you need fewer rejuvs). It really comes down to whether you want a bit more burst every 3 minutes or a bit more healing all the time. I used to go with Incarnation, but switched to SotF as we have so many other throughput cooldowns anyway and this tier has relatively few burn phases.

Another question. Should I use glyph of WG only when I use SotF or it should be used all the time? Thank you.

[Trubo]

Another question. Should I use glyph of WG only when I use SotF or it should be used all the time? Thank you.

In 10 man it's more a matter of preference (I'd still use it). In 25 man I'd be hard pressed to think of a situation where 6 or more people aren't taking damage.

[Yuma8244]

I'm interested in whether or not Force of Nature can be competitive for resto now. The guide mentions that it has been improved quite a bit, and that the 60 tier is very controversial. Are people still mostly choosing SotF and Incarnation? I really like Force of Nature as a concept, but if it's not competitive then obviously I'll avoid it.

[Acubed]

awesome guide, thanks for all the info guys!

[Aoroc]

I'm interested in whether or not Force of Nature can be competitive for resto now. The guide mentions that it has been improved quite a bit, and that the 60 tier is very controversial. Are people still mostly choosing SotF and Incarnation? I really like Force of Nature as a concept, but if it's not competitive then obviously I'll avoid it.

It's generally taken less, yes, but I'd say that it also is competitive. The reason it's taken less is because it is less throughput then the others, but that's not to say it's terrible. It certainly has it's niche, and any of these fights are killable using it. The smart heals are definitely a nice factor about it, when you're on a fight (like Spoils) that people sit at full most of the time, you could easily rotate through the treants while DoC dpsing for example to try to help out on timer just as an example. If you're THE throughput backbone of your healing comp (such as 2 healing in 10 man) then you'll probably want one of the other 2, but if you have a little more freedom and don't have to worry about being that backbone, I'd say try it out and see how you like it, see where it fits in with your play style. I'd also recommend getting a WA for it as well.

[Alltat]

Another question. Should I use glyph of WG only when I use SotF or it should be used all the time? Thank you.

Definitely use the glyph, aside from perhaps on Spoils, Immerseus, and Galakras tower duty (though you'd probably still want to use it for phase two). While it technically results in a few percent less healing from WG, the improved mana efficiency and freed up GCDs more than make up for it. As I recall, SotF actually favors not using the glyph due to how the cooldowns line up over time, but I still recommend using the glyph for the increased burst potential. Incarnation also slightly favors the unglyphed version as you get one more cast off during the shapeshift, but the uptime of it isn't really enough to warrant dropping the glyph for. Basically always use the glyph regardless of raid size and talent choices.

[lokithor]

Don't recall seeing if this was corrected but does anyone know if the issue of Nature's Swiftness consuming Sage Mender stacks if used to cast Healing Touch?

I believe that bug was fixed.

On another Sage Mender note. Does anyone have a weakaura to track it by chance?

[Bzl]

It's generally taken less, yes, but I'd say that it also is competitive. The reason it's taken less is because it is less throughput then the others, but that's not to say it's terrible. It certainly has it's niche, and any of these fights are killable using it. The smart heals are definitely a nice factor about it, when you're on a fight (like Spoils) that people sit at full most of the time, you could easily rotate through the treants while DoC dpsing for example to try to help out on timer just as an example. If you're THE throughput backbone of your healing comp (such as 2 healing in 10 man) then you'll probably want one of the other 2, but if you have a little more freedom and don't have to worry about being that backbone, I'd say try it out and see how you like it, see where it fits in with your play style. I'd also recommend getting a WA for it as well.

Agreed, the talent falls behind in terms of raw throughput over time, but there are times where I prefer it to alternatives.

Examples might be the "Thok" fight, where you really want some cooldown every 1,5 min (post chase phases). Incarnation is great if you can completely skip having CD's up for one of them, but trees serves their purpose well here, as their smart healing comes where needed, their efflo covers the entire raid, and the CD is dynamic, which means it WILL align to some extent with the end of a chase phase.

One of the most important thing is just to frequently play all the diff talents. If you have never played FoN before, and are about to try it on Thok, you are probably not going to get to utilize it to its full potential. There is no such thing as "jack of all, master of non" here. Getting familiar with your entire loadout is the best advice to anyone picking up resto druid healing.

[kooz]

does it make sense to reach 6652? I heard mixed opinions, some say stay at 3043 until u can get 13163 for rejuv...my gear is mid 550, lots of crit pieces I could reforge to mastery instead....an extra wg tick worth the haste reforge?

[Keiyra]

does it make sense to reach 6652? I heard mixed opinions, some say stay at 3043 until u can get 13163 for rejuv...my gear is mid 550, lots of crit pieces I could reforge to mastery instead....an extra wg tick worth the haste reforge?

Generally speaking no, its not worth it to gear towards 6652.
3043 or 13163 are the two breakpoints that have the greatest impact on your output. Aim for one of those. You'll get more bang for your buck from mastery than spending much itemization on haste between RJ/Tranq breakpoints.