Heroic Immerseus 10 Help

[Saiyoran]

Hello guys, my guild wiped on Heroic Immerseus for 3 hours last night with little progression. After numerous guilds and guides telling us this boss is "very easy," "way easier than Garrosh normal," and "totally faceroll," I have been able to find little helpful information outside of the Scrubbusters Warlock strategy guide (I forget his name), and even that doesn't get very specific.

Raid comp is:
-Prot Warrior (MW monk alt)
-Blood DK (Prot pally alt, thought probably not geared enough to tank this)
-POSSIBLY Brewmaster tank, if they can cheese adds Tortos style or any other mechanic we can probably convince him to come in.

-Resto Druid
-Holy Paladin
-Resto Shaman
-Disc Priest (Pulls highest dps out of everyone in our raid in his shadow OS as well, with the exception of the other spriest and occasionally the hunter)

-Ele Sham
-Warlock (plays all 3 specs very well)
-Hunter (BM/Survival)
-Fire Mage x2 (one is usually much higher dps than the others but both have a tendency to stand in the puddles a little much)
-SPriest

Our issues are hard to pinpoint (I don't have logs unfortunately, I know that would help a ton), as we sometimes have a flawless phase 1 and then die at the end of phase 2, and other times all randomly die 15 seconds in.

We are popping hero on the pull and then going to 4/5 stacks before stopping and killing adds, then refocusing boss as soon as stacks drop. Our first few attempts had adds EVERYWHERE and there was just no way for me to pick them up without Mocking Banner (and the cd on it is too long to use it every Swelling Corruption), so we had our HPal turn on Righteous Fury and marked her with a raid marker so i could simply go thunderclap on top of her to get them. However, our priests are still pulling stupid high threat on the adds and often pulling them off of her, taking up to 5 adds on them. Combined with Swirl and the inability to see any puddles (nameplates covering most of the screen qq) half the time, we are getting TONS of random deaths. A lot of guilds I saw just sat in Swirl and popped a raid cd and nobody died. This happens to us about 50% of the time, but sometimes someone will get gibbed with a 5 stack DoT + add melee + swirl.

As for positioning, we are starting in front with everyone except the tanks in a straight line facing the boss (one behind the other) and then moving to the left every time a puddle drops. This works great up until adds spawn, and then people get all kinds of out of place for whatever reason and we end up with puddles all over everyone. We have the Blood DK tanking on the pull, I taunt immediately after the tank cone attack, and grab an add or two to attack for rage while I have high stacks. This usually works okay, however on a few pulls whenever we did a taunt swap the boss would immediately spam his tank attack on the whole raid despite me being able to melee him from where I taunt (I'm guessing his hitbox is just slightly larger than his perceived "melee range" so when one of us taunts at the edge of his hitbox we are counted as out of range). Also, the adds are absolutely destroying their tank when we manage to pick all of them up at once.

Any advice? We are not getting to P2 frequently, and when we do it usually goes fine except for the pool randomly expanding to cover the whole room and instantly killing half the raid whenever even just one or two adds reach it.

Edit: Which healers should we have in for this fight? Our rdruid and the disc pull the most as far as I can see, but having the disc as shadow is a huge dps boost when we sit a lower dps for him.

[Halifax]

One small thing that we did for this fight that moved it from terrible to killing in 2 attempts was using a 3rd tank. The "dps check" in this fight is basically non-existent, so the loss of dps isn't a huge deal. The 3rd tank does not tank the boss. He just stays in the raid cluster and picks up all of the adds when they spawn while they get AoE'd down.

Our 3rd tank for this was a brewmaster, who only has gear for WW (and was also me) so I imagine any dps player with a tank offspec and not-terrible gear can do it.

This basically trivializes the adds and lets the main tanks not have to worry about all the back and forth with the adds. Removes a lot of chaos.

[Blayzee]

What we're doing that works really well is using our holy paladin as a magnet with righteous fury on and his healing generates enough aggro for the adds to go to him then the tank picks the up from the pala while the dps are there aoe'ing them all down.

[Squirl]

Go for 3 stacks. 4 is ok sometimes (but still quite a bit of damage), but 5 is a ton of damage. You can Mass Dispel stacks so you can continue DPSing if you get a few of those out. Remember this is not a DPS race though. It's about getting through p1 cleanly then killing/healing pretty much every add in p2. Up phases will get easier and easier as the fight goes on too because they'll be shorter and he'll put up less stacks. Down phases will get harder and harder on healers while getting easier and easier for DPS (and hybrids should go full time healing in those phases later on).

I don't think we ever had issues with adds (neither picking them up nor tanks dying). Make sure you're using appropriate defensives. We don't have a warrior tank on our roster, so I don't know much about their potential, but our blood DK doesn't seem to have issues getting aggro. You shouldn't have to grab every single one immediately either; a few random ones meleeing a few people should not be a big deal. People shouldn't be so spread out that it's impossible to pick up all the adds either though.

For Swirl, immunities allow you to run through without getting damaged. Personals should definitely be used if an immunity isn't available. I've read that you can outrange them by running to the very back of the room, but I've never done this personally.

I would bring your Disc, rDruid, and hPal. Halo is pretty insane for the down phases, Leap of Faith can be used to pull adds back in an emergency, they can help with damage, they can Mass Dispel, and they're just really solid healers. rDruid and hPal because I imagine a rSham just being bad on a fight like this (though their mastery could be pretty good for down phases).

[Zambal]

What we did was mark a spot and everyone stand near it, when the boss gains the buff everyone moves 15 yrd to the mark and push dps. At around 6 stacks our priest mass dispel, and after that the boss stack is gone before we need to use any CDs.

So to sum up, never stop dps and mass dispel the debuff instead(one mass dispel is enough)

[Zabuzan]

Hey, I made a guide for this fight earlier today. Check it out, maybe it'll help!
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...s-Heroic-Guide

It's a shame your prot pally alt isn't geared enough for the encounter, I tank it as prot and the adds just flock to me. That said, they also flock to our Prot warrior. It's most likely a tanking issue more than anything else; once you get a few adds on you and gain some extra Vengeance, the others should just make a beeline for you anyway.

[Saiyoran]

Hey, I made a guide for this fight earlier today. Check it out, maybe it'll help!
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...s-Heroic-Guide

It's a shame your prot pally alt isn't geared enough for the encounter, I tank it as prot and the adds just flock to me. That said, they also flock to our Prot warrior. It's most likely a tanking issue more than anything else; once you get a few adds on you and gain some extra Vengeance, the others should just make a beeline for you anyway.

Any insight in to what exactly he's doing? I'm the prot warrior and I have no shame in admitting I could use some help as far as AoE threat and the like goes. Im mostly waiting for them to get to the raid and then heroic leaping/TC/whatever talent I have (mostly shockwave since its a longer stun for P2 adds), but this doesnt always get aggro on all of them since we have most of our raid AoEing them at that point.

- - - Updated - - -

Go for 3 stacks. 4 is ok sometimes (but still quite a bit of damage), but 5 is a ton of damage. You can Mass Dispel stacks so you can continue DPSing if you get a few of those out. Remember this is not a DPS race though. It's about getting through p1 cleanly then killing/healing pretty much every add in p2. Up phases will get easier and easier as the fight goes on too because they'll be shorter and he'll put up less stacks. Down phases will get harder and harder on healers while getting easier and easier for DPS (and hybrids should go full time healing in those phases later on).

I don't think we ever had issues with adds (neither picking them up nor tanks dying). Make sure you're using appropriate defensives. We don't have a warrior tank on our roster, so I don't know much about their potential, but our blood DK doesn't seem to have issues getting aggro. You shouldn't have to grab every single one immediately either; a few random ones meleeing a few people should not be a big deal. People shouldn't be so spread out that it's impossible to pick up all the adds either though.

For Swirl, immunities allow you to run through without getting damaged. Personals should definitely be used if an immunity isn't available. I've read that you can outrange them by running to the very back of the room, but I've never done this personally.

I would bring your Disc, rDruid, and hPal. Halo is pretty insane for the down phases, Leap of Faith can be used to pull adds back in an emergency, they can help with damage, they can Mass Dispel, and they're just really solid healers. rDruid and hPal because I imagine a rSham just being bad on a fight like this (though their mastery could be pretty good for down phases).

Thank you for the suggestions. We haven't had a tank die from the adds yet (just the boss's breath if we get out of range between taunts), but the healers told us we were both getting wrecked without major cooldowns due to the +300% shadow damage after tanking immerseus. We will try going to 3 stacks tonight instead of 5, I think we dropped down to 4 at the end of the night due to random deaths from the dot.

Off topic: Was hoping someone from your guild would respond, see you guys all the time afking in Shrine and posting on these forums, for the most part you are all pretty knowledgeable. Now go kill some more heroics and catch Paragon :P

[Deleted]

Basically what we're doing in terms of the ads is that both tanks go on them. After the first blast he wont do another one for i believe 40 seconds and you have the swirl where he's doing no tank damage either so there is plenty of time for both tanks to be in the raid. Just keep in mind after swirl ends there need to be a tank in his melee range. Other than this we found the best way for us was to just trigger every single ad at the same time, use mass dispel to prevent stacks from killing ppl, by the time all the ads have spawned the tanks should have sufficient threat on everything and just aoe it down.

[justflayin]

5 stack is too high. 4 is a little high. Try to shoot for 3 if the healing becomes too much. The straight line thing didn't work out so well for my group so we kind of just loosely spread where we were. Our Pally tank got all of the adds. Our Monk couldn't get them off of him because of his heal aggro ever. lol

[Berianther]

Pretty sure your dps is dying to high stacks, tell them to stop dps on boss at 3 stacks. Defensive cd on the swirl if it's unavoidable. Alternatively designate 1 person on your raid to keep dpsing boss and chain dispell him so you keep spawning adds at a controlled rate.

[Zabuzan]

Will see what my Prot War does on Immerseus.

That said, most of your other concerns (stacks on the raid, adds, tank range for healers etc) are all covered in the guide I linked - if you do that positioning and aim for 3-4 stacks, things should start to fall into place.

Once you've mastered the first P1, you're pretty much nearly there. Once you've mastered the 1st AND 2nd P1, it's pretty much a kill.

[Saiyoran]

Will see what my Prot War does on Immerseus.

That said, most of your other concerns (stacks on the raid, adds, tank range for healers etc) are all covered in the guide I linked - if you do that positioning and aim for 3-4 stacks, things should start to fall into place.

Once you've mastered the first P1, you're pretty much nearly there. Once you've mastered the 1st AND 2nd P1, it's pretty much a kill.

Read your guide, looks the like the only MAJOR difference was you guys moving after each Corrosive Breath, which seems like a much better idea than clusterfucking like we have been haha, thanks for the guide and hopefully it'll come together tonight.

[Zabuzan]

Yeah - the stand still until it's an absolute clusterfuck approach is pretty popular but we decided to remove any chance of people dying and just move a bit more as a unit.

2 shot it this week using the strat... should have been a one shot, but beggars can't be choosers :P

[Saiyoran]

Thought I'd check in to let you guys know that we downed it in about an hour using some of the tips here! Thanks a ton guys. We also managed to kill H Norushen in 4 pulls, the enrage was incredibly tight but mechanically it was such a faceroll... Protectors and Sha next week (unless you guys think other bosses are easier?).

[Zabuzan]

Protectors Heroic is pretty easy as well and tbh so is Sha.... Sha is probably a tighter DPS/healer check than Norushen because of the soft enrage in P2 though.

Here you go, I made a Protectors Heroic guide as well We 2 shot it this week using the strategy described in it.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...s-Heroic-Guide

I'm on with a Sha guide at the moment as well! Here is my index thread for guides I'm making, updating it as I go along but I'll be creating guides for every boss. http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-Heroic-Guides

- - - Updated - - -

... and congrats on both Immerseus and Norushen!

[fiestatastic]

Could anyone please give some advice from a tank perspective? I'm a ranged dps, and this fight seems pretty easy, and the guide is very helpful, but we wiped for 2 1/2 hours on this and moved on to protectors instead, which was a very easy fight for us in comparison .... and what happened to us pretty much every time was our tanks would get globaled. The healers said there wasn't anything they could do, the tanks were taking 1 million + hits and just dying.

They would have 5-7+ stacks on average, which makes sense to the rest of us as to why they are dying, dps is hitting 3-4 stacks and then killing adds, but our tanks say that they must keep attacking to maintain active mitigation. Our mt insists that all the videos he watched have the tanks taking 10+ stacks and being fine, he really wants to rush it and insists that we need to get past the first P1 before the 2nd swelling corruption or all is lost.

Any advice please?

[Qualia]

^ If the stack is an issue, you can always dispel them. If you are getting to 2nd Swelling Corruption, your DPS really need to pick it up - you shouldn't even need to rush to get there. However, it's hard to say what was your issue, since 5-7 stacks shouldn't make the tanks getting global'd either. Any log?

[Deleted]

They would have 5-7+ stacks on average, which makes sense to the rest of us as to why they are dying, dps is hitting 3-4 stacks and then killing adds, but our tanks say that they must keep attacking to maintain active mitigation. Our mt insists that all the videos he watched have the tanks taking 10+ stacks and being fine, he really wants to rush it and insists that we need to get past the first P1 before the 2nd swelling corruption or all is lost.

There's no way, without major cooldown stacking (I'm talking insane stacking, not just 2-3 fifty-percenters), to survive 10 stacks... I'm globaling to 6 and insta-dispelling myself as a MW, so these are the damage numbers the stacks deal without any cooldown reduction up:

1 Stack: 2.500
2 Stacks: 8.750
3 Stacks: 22.969 -- it really ramps up after this point
4 Stacks: 53.593
5 Stacks: 117.236
6 Stacks: 246.196


It more than doubles every stack, so 10 stacks would most likely tick for 3.9M each second.

In regards to Active Mitigation:
The damage your tanks take from taking further stacks far outweights any active mitigation they could put up by using that 4-5 GCDs.
I'd love to see your tanks calculation regarding his AM that warrants taking this amount of damage to put it up in the first place...

He is right about one thing though: A 2nd Swelling Corruption shouldn't happen.

Just have everyone go to 3 stacks, aoe adds / heal stuff while the debuff wears off and go to 2 again... this takes minimal effort.

[zaneosak]

We wiped 60 times to this this week and we have really no idea what is going on. Tank gets facerolled and dies to 50 adds, or our shadow priest or bladestorming warrior steams AoE aggro off of him because we are trying to kill them so fast so he wont die. We go to 5 stacks on the DoT , cleanse ourselves (and/or mass dispel) and then usually there is 40ish adds out immediately. We try to stun rotate but the adds die so slow if our dps waits for aggro.... and dps dies if they go balls to teh walls, especialyl bladestorming.

Is our prot pally doing something wrong? He has CDs up, I spam heal him, literally no stopping even at 100% hp, put spirit link on his feet and we vigilance him. Our prot pally is generally a really good player and has really high gear. Pretty frustrating turn of events after getting that garrosh kill lol. Especially when everybody says the first 3 heroics are easier than garrosh normal.

Any tips would be helpful. I read the thread but i didnt see anything regarding aggro or tank deaths.

[Deja Thoris]

We wiped 60 times to this this week and we have really no idea what is going on. Tank gets facerolled and dies to 50 adds, or our shadow priest or bladestorming warrior steams AoE aggro off of him because we are trying to kill them so fast so he wont die. We go to 5 stacks on the DoT , cleanse ourselves (and/or mass dispel) and then usually there is 40ish adds out immediately. We try to stun rotate but the adds die so slow if our dps waits for aggro.... and dps dies if they go balls to teh walls, especialyl bladestorming.

Is our prot pally doing something wrong? He has CDs up, I spam heal him, literally no stopping even at 100% hp, put spirit link on his feet and we vigilance him. Our prot pally is generally a really good player and has really high gear. Pretty frustrating turn of events after getting that garrosh kill lol. Especially when everybody says the first 3 heroics are easier than garrosh normal.

Any tips would be helpful. I read the thread but i didnt see anything regarding aggro or tank deaths.

Logs help but 5 stacks is too many. If the pala starts tanking he can get a 5 stack eternal flame by the time he has to pickup the adds. They should run to him like flies on shit with vengeance and healing aggro. Do you have hunters or rogues for MD/tricks?
As to the dieing part, if he uses EF just after corrosive blast he should have a decent self heal ticking. Are you sure hes not stacking the debuff too high?