"540+ have 14/14 Normal Experience" for Flex, seriously.

[barackohmama]

That's just BS. Our Hunter went away for 3 weeks, the beginning of the SoO and 3 weeks into progress. When he got back, we were 6/14 Heroic I believe, don't even remember it. But we brought him in on all 6 Heroic kills and he didn't cause a single wipe. I think he died once but that's it. You're underestimating the skill of players who cleared 13/13 Heroic last Tier, if you think they're so bad, that they can't follow simple instructions in a Flex run.

Of course some players just adopt quickly. But ive seen many examples of the contrary. Those players who are just not reading up and think their gear will carry then dying to shit like breath on malkorok. Even if HC ToT players do fine 9/10 its worse than ppl with experience who nail it 99/100 times.

[Sakamae]

Well, reaching 7 pages..Interesting....snip

You are missing the point entirely. We pay money to play a game and enjoy it the way we want. You can't force someone to play the game how YOU want or spend their time in it how YOU want. If that person wants to do a flex run with a high gear requirement or achieve, that's their choice. You also have the choice to make your own run with whatever requirements you want or to go with another group. If I've been raiding all week on my main, I really don't want to deal with spending 4 hours in a flex group struggling on bosses on my alts. If that means I advertise with high requirements, so be it, that's MY CHOICE NOT YOURS. QQing does you nothing. If you've been playing the game since "vanilla" as you claim, then I find it hard to believe you haven't figured this out by now...

[judgementofantonidas]

On oQueue, I only wait list for flex raids that have a 535+ iLevel requirement. I want the runs to be quick and easy and I don't want to waste any of my time teaching people the fights.

If you don't like other people's requirements, form your own raid and make whatever requirement suits you.

heh. got in a flex wing 2 guild run last night. they posted 535 required me being 553 and it became PAINFULLY obvious that this was progression for them. had to leave after a number of wipes on shamans that were just not going to be corrected without better players.

[Halicia]

heh. got in a flex wing 2 guild run last night.

yeah, i'm always skittish about joining a 'guildrun'. probably a carryover from bad experiences pugging ICC/etc, but in my experience... a 'good' guildrun would have filled those one or two pugs from their friendslist.

[Deleted]

Complaining about it is not going to fix the problem.

There is nothing wrong with pointing out how the players demands have gone to complete absurdities.

Although we really should blame Blizzard in part for not stomping out the moronic gearscore-ilvl system right away.

[Yakshamash]

Was about time Open raid opened door to morons...

[Deleted]

Group creator simply wants to be carried. Excuses like "but I want a smooth run" are just that.

I think you got something backwards here. Assuming all players are of average skill, a player with 540ilvl will perform better than someone with 515ilvl. Thus most people who want to join a group with a high ilvl requirement will statistically perform worse than the average of the group, which is the definition of getting carried. This difference is exacerbated by the fact, that on average the 550ilvl person is more skilled than the 520ilvl one

PS. Obviously assuming that the raid leader meets his own requirements. If not he is indeed asking to be carried.

[barackohmama]

I think you got something backwards here. Assuming all players are of average skill, a player with 540ilvl will perform better than someone with 515ilvl. Thus most people who want to join a group with a high ilvl requirement will statistically perform worse than the average of the group, which is the definition of getting carried. This difference is exacerbated by the fact, that on average the 550ilvl person is more skilled than the 520ilvl one

PS. Obviously assuming that the raid leader meets his own requirements. If not he is indeed asking to be carried.

any leader who's just picks random ppl with high ilvl is a moron. what is an avarage ilvl 550 player anyways? I have a ilvl 560 char, but that doesnt count now since the char I want to do flex with is only ilvl 525, right? Since my char is ilvl 525 I will be less skilled than any random ilvl 550 char running flex.

But then again. you cant just assume raid leaders picks ppl randomly. Or well they shouldnt at least. They would get better performance if they just took a few minutes to investigate the players skill/achi.

[seam]

any leader who's just picks random ppl with high ilvl is a moron. what is an avarage ilvl 550 player anyways? I have a ilvl 560 char, but that doesnt count now since the char I want to do flex with is only ilvl 525, right? Since my char is ilvl 525 I will be less skilled than any random ilvl 550 char running flex.

But then again. you cant just assume raid leaders picks ppl randomly. Or well they shouldnt at least. They would get better performance if they just took a few minutes to investigate the players skill/achi.

He said on average. Not "EVERY SINGLE 550+ IS BETTER THAN ANYONE UNDER THAT!!!"

Are you going to argue that a majority of people who get timeless gear and try to raid are better than most 550+?

Have you BEEN in a lfr?

[Monteverdi]

It's like in WotLK when a PUG VoA run would cost you an ICC25 gearscore. These kind of runs will always happen - and hey whatever floats their boat. There are plenty of reasonable runs out there as well.

[barackohmama]

He said on average. Not "EVERY SINGLE 550+ IS BETTER THAN ANYONE UNDER THAT!!!"

Are you going to argue that a majority of people who get timeless gear and try to raid are better than most 550+?

Have you BEEN in a lfr?

I'm arguing that you're even talking in terms of "avarage". why the hell would you even pick things at random? Invest a little time to look people up and you won't wait 3 hours for those ilvl 550 chars to show up. Those of you who do might actually make friends in the process and next time not wont need to invite those randoms.

When I create my flex groups the first thing I look for is experience. I look or ask people about their knowledge a little and just make sure their gear is decent. My impression is that it works much better than just picking the random highest ilvl dude and hope for the best. From my experience those people that are around ilvl 520-530 are much more willing to perform throughout the raid, contrary to those ilvl 550 who are just there for one piece and might leave any sec just because their piece didnt drop.

Plus alot of those ilvl 520-530 chars are normal/heroic raiders wanting to gear up their alts.

[MoanaLisa]

Pug requirements are like commodity prices: whatever the market will bear. If you think the requirements are too high, then move on and contribute your awesomeness to someone more deserving.

[CausalXXLinkXx]

Openraid is also called carryraid for a reason. Most of these people requiring insane iLevels want to be carried. I saw someone going "540+ for Heroic MSV" lol

[Deleted]

This is why I hope Flex doesn't kill LFR, because LFR is still the better choice for players like me that just want to login, do a raid, and go back to the real world. I'm finding with Flex raids we're back to the "link achievement and have 540+ ilvl" bullshit that ruined pugging. I outright refuse to beg for a spot in a raid, or be spoken down to by some scrub that thinks he's better than he is because he cleared Flex Wing 1 once, yet was carried all the way through.

I'm an exceptional player, I know I am, and people have told me I am. I can play every class and role in the game to a above the average standard getting the most out of my gear (usually full LFR). I really can not stand being judged for not being in full ToT heroic or SoO hc / normal gear, or having stupid achievements, or Flex mode clears already. I know the fights from LFR experience, and Flex isn't even a step up from LFR it's a side step.

Something really annoying though is nobody on my server asks for more than 10 players, which is pretty frustrating for those with DPS roles. The whole point of Flexible raiding was so you could take an uneven number of players, it's a shame either people don't know that or are just ignoring it for a "faster" run.

[hablix]

Make your own raid event or keep looking. I have not had a problem finding groups via Open Raid or oQueue, for any wing, and I have no Normal experience. Setting minimum requirements is the prerogative of the raid organizer regardless.

[Farath]

While I agree that a normal achieve for a lesser raid setting is overkill, it's just as easy to make your own group or find one with lower requirements.

[PowerGamez]

I have no problem with people putting ilvl requirements on runs. I have problems with terrible players in the groups playing atrociously but that's ok cause they made the ivll requirement

I've pugged a few oQueue runs this week, have bailed on 2 runs and got kicked from one run.

Generally my rule for flex pugging is - see ilvl requirement, if met armory leader and see what achieves they've got and what their normal/heroic mode experience is like.

I've joined multiple "530+, 540+ ilvl requirement" runs this week and called people out for bad dps/heals. "Isn't this run supposed to be 540 ilvl? why do we only have 1 person above 150K and why are 3 people below 100K?", "why is the healer only doing 30K hps" "why does the BM monk have 20% uptime on shuffle".

I then get called a jerk, an elitist, too high expectiations etc. Players are getting worse and worse.

[kamuimac]

Openraid is also called carryraid for a reason. Most of these people requiring insane iLevels want to be carried. I saw someone going "540+ for Heroic MSV" lol

its not that - its supply & demand if there wasnt a ton of people out there with those itlv willing to join him he wouldnt put out those req but since there is he can do that - what more most of those who look for those runs are people who never done mv hc while it was current so they have to rely on gear to bruteforce through stuff they have no other choice since they wont withstand more then 1-2 wipes untill group disbands -_- same is with flex guess how many wipes average group will withstand till they break ? max 2 people dont go there for progress if one wants to progress there he is free to make his own or guild run nobody is denyying him that -but most want cause most have no idea how to raid lead or just simple want to be totaly carried

[Deleted]

After 8 still pages it's still hard to understand?

Time = Limited
People want to run flex FAST to save TIME
Higher iLvl + experience = faster clear
Fast smooth run and quick easy VP
=Soo much win.

All i see is people being a bit under the requested ilvl and being bitter about it.
It's nice that you have a high Ilvl main, no guarantee you dont suck balls on your alt tho o.o

[Sole-Warrior]

This was the message i saw on openraid earlier..Seriously do these people even use their brain?

540+ for Flex 1/2/3 while having 14/14 Normal, wat.

I dont have a problem with people having requirements, but seriously.

14/14 normal wtf really? lol. The i level requirement assuming you are doing the last wing released is understandable though.