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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    Because pug starters themselves always meet the requirements that they insist that others meet.
    In oQueue, yes, they do. Every single time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kivana View Post
    Yes it is THEIR raid so it is their rules. But some people just make unreasonable requirements. That is what people are moaning about.
    ITT: If I fit their requirements, then the requirements are completely reasonable. If I do not meet their requirements, the raid leader is unreasonable and wants to be carried

  2. #202
    Deleted
    That's exactly what I though when I saw these high requirements.

    <snip>
    Infracted; Don't post meme's.
    Last edited by Sonnillon; 2013-10-12 at 02:29 PM.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Dante Vale View Post
    If I fit their requirements, then the requirements are completely reasonable. If I do not meet their requirements, the raid leader is unreasonable and wants to be carried
    I have a 570 ilvl and 12 / 14 heroic xp, expecting 540 ilvl and 14 / 14 normal xp IS being unreasonable. It defeats the entire purpose they created the difficulty for.

  4. #204
    People do this for pugs so they have a better chance of a quick run. The funny thing is I got in a flex yesterday where I was the lowest ilvl dps at 516 yet I ended up top 3 every fight in dps, only beat by people with 30+ higher ilvl.

  5. #205
    Who are you guys to tell me what my conditions should be for a pug raid? I do not know any of you, and I value my time more than I value your potential competence.

    If I want a group of only 540+, then I will make just that. Flex is progression for some people, thats fine and great. I was in the same boat 3 weeks ago, at only 515ish. I have alts that ilevel as well. I have no problem joining lower geared flex runs on them.

    But now I only run it for valor and the chance to get tier pieces + trinkets on my main. There are many people like me, overgeared for flex with legendary cloaks, but still progressing through normals and starting heroics. I have no problem filling in spots with 540 or even 545+ people for flex. It could very well be the case you are a more competent player in your 515 timeless island gear than players in 550 gear,

    ....but I do not care. I would rather be safe than sorry.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    This was the message i saw on openraid earlier..Seriously do these people even use their brain?

    540+ for Flex 1/2/3 while having 14/14 Normal, wat.

    I dont have a problem with people having requirements, but seriously.
    I would only expect something like that for an achieve run.

  7. #207
    Flex was intended for guilds that have difficulties clearing normal modes and had/have logistical issues with raid size. If you want to get into a flex run join a guild, make some friends in game with similar goals or use OQ/other premade maker. Complaining that pugs in trade want a specific ilvl or experience is pointless, what do you expect to be done? Blizzard will not force people to lower their pug requirements, nor should they. I still see level 90 requirements and even ilvl requirements for past expansion raids. It is what it is, adapt.

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by soamazzing View Post
    Flex was intended for guilds that have difficulties clearing normal modes and had/have logistical issues with raid size. If you want to get into a flex run join a guild, make some friends in game with similar goals or use OQ/other premade maker. Complaining that pugs in trade want a specific ilvl or experience is pointless, what do you expect to be done? Blizzard will not force people to lower their pug requirements, nor should they. I still see level 90 requirements and even ilvl requirements for past expansion raids. It is what it is, adapt.
    How can you say such a thing? I pay a sub fee just like they do, I should be allowed in every group I try to get in.

    Oh wait...

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaoss17 View Post
    That's exactly what I though when I saw these high requirements.
    Right, because there aren't already about a dozen other flex groups that only have a 515 ilevel requirement on oqueue/openraid? You guys complaining about people having high standards for their pugs act like they're the only ones organizing things.

    Case in point when I look at OQ right now out of a possible 32 flex groups only 3 of them have a 535+ requirement, so no... I think you guys have plenty of opportunity to gain experience.

    Seriously, just let the raiders group with themselves and have their fast runs.

  10. #210
    I personally see nothing wrong with it. I tend to do the same thing when I pug them. Bottom line is I want to get through it as quickly and painless as possible. I tend to be willing to take others with lower gear so long as I know they are alts to someone that is decent and been through.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    I have a 570 ilvl and 12 / 14 heroic xp, expecting 540 ilvl and 14 / 14 normal xp IS being unreasonable. It defeats the entire purpose they created the difficulty for.
    agree with this person and my ilvl is 569, item level does not determine your opinions just because you meet/don't meet a standard people require for raids, some people are just unreasonable.

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    agree with this person and my ilvl is 569, item level does not determine your opinions just because you meet/don't meet a standard people require for raids, some people are just unreasonable.
    There's nothing unreasonable about it, no one is saying "you can't flex without 540 gear" they're just saying "I want this done quickly because it's a pain in the ass". I did one last week that required 550+ and most were well above that, so much better than watching people drag themselves through it with 60-80k dps.

  13. #213
    Deleted
    Right, because there aren't already about a dozen other flex groups that only have a 515 ilevel requirement on oqueue/openraid? You guys complaining about people having high standards for their pugs act like they're the only ones organizing things.
    Let me tell you a story of a french player on EU servers.
    Flex raids just opened, he wasn't really interested, but his eyes sometimes wonder on the chat window.

    Then he saw this announcement : "search 525+ ilvl for SoO Flex".
    He thought : "that's kinda high for a raid difficulty between LFR and normal. But nevermind I don't know the ilvl for normal raids".
    Some seconds later, he read again an announcement : "normal guild starting SoO in normal search 520+ ilvl"
    Player : "what ? How come ? Why a raid with lower difficulty ask for higher gear level ?"

    He searched the internet, wondering what min ilvl does SoO flex need to enter.
    He didn't see many testimonies about Flex, just people praising it and rarely real feedbacks.
    He continues to search and continued to look at these announcements for Flex and he even tried Oqeueu (ilvl 515 for ToT not for SoO).
    That's how he began to continue to see these requirements going higher and higher (this thread have good examples)
    The player still asks himself : "why ?"

    That's how he thought to ask directly a dev on twitter :
    Last edited by mmoc768010fc85; 2013-10-11 at 10:56 PM.

  14. #214
    Herald of the Titans Xisa's Avatar
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    People that want runs like that are usually really bad, about...100% of the time.

    They're looking for a carry for gear. Just ignore them. The longer they rot, the better.

  15. #215
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    I level isn't "required" to do flex considering I did Flex2 tanking on a 48X DK so it's not that gear is required more that it is needed to compensate for lack of skill or knowledge of the fight. Guess the question is how many iLevels does it take to fix stupid? =P Forming a pug you have to assume that everyone is a goober so can only really go by other factors like iLevel or kills. We were mostly an alt run + friends of guildies so the amount of derp was fairly limited.

    I can understand for the achievement/gearing up holes from Normal/transmog type runs wanting to just stick to experienced well geared players to make the runs go by ASAP. I can't really fault that behavior. Though if it's the majority of runs available they may need to consider a way to make it more attractive for people of gear levels intended for Flex some how so it serves as an avenue for the people that can't do normal like they wanted.
    [/URL]
    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  16. #216
    These requirements really absolutely baffle me. But I can also see why these requirements are established in the first place.

    Since I dinged 90 on my mage Ive been working tirelessly to get my ilvl up (currently 512) and LFR 40-50+ minute ques are not helping at all (mind you getting into a partial run and the group cant get past the boss they're on)

    I got into a flex wing 1 run thanks to oque yesterday, and I was the lowest ilvl geared dps, I beat everyone on dps on every fight except for one dk that knew how to play. The point is that its all about the player, the perceived reality is that a low ilvl player = bad and a high level ilvl = good. Take what you will from this assumption.

    Oh and by the way there was a warrior that joined in all pvp gear doing like 50k dps, when asked to go tank he said yeah i have tank gear, all he did was put on a shield and thats it, that was his "tank" gear. He was promptly kicked.

  17. #217
    Deleted
    Is this still going? Will say my thoughts nevertheless!!

    Requirements are there to improve the risk assessment. Requiring "experienced" players gives better chances of the player not being a fucking noob
    Requiring 540+ or 550+ or 505+ ilvl gives better chances of not wiping based on the mechanics/numbers combination. Also abit tightly connected to the "skill" of the player. Think from optimization(gems etc) to him having too much /played at lvl 90 but still having only 530ilvl because he is not "into raiding" that much---> High chances of him not being a good raider

    So someone with requirements, desire to form a freaking "elite roster" is his fucking choice and subsequently he will have to try harder and wait/spend more time to achieve that or more correctly to hook up with people that want the same thing!

    So if after 1month, you see an openraid event for Flex SoO requiring 565ilvl+ dont worry my friend!!, the creator of the event is just a guy that wanted to do so, because he hmm i dont know he is hungry! possibly that could be it!

    Whenever i typed he or him i meant he/she and him/her.

    Whats your argument now????? huh? Cmon perfect logician! i want your counterargument

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    This guy is so bored!!!

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    This was the message i saw on openraid earlier..Seriously do these people even use their brain?

    540+ for Flex 1/2/3 while having 14/14 Normal, wat.
    If you have that, why would you even bother doing flex?

  19. #219
    I belive as long at the leader of the group lives up to what he is asking for u cant really blame anyone. Just accept that the run wasnt meant for u.

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    1)Item level means jack shit.

    2)Achievements mean jack shit.

    Its all about the quality of the player

    ...

    blah blah listing cases of high ilvl people failing
    Tell me, how do you know the quality of the player? The things you can know about a player are ilvl, achis and how the player gems/enchants/reforges his/her gear, checking the last one for every player takes time, and still doesn't guarantee a good player, for example a friend of mine knows nothing about his class and just asks me to log on to his account once he has gotten some gear to fix it for his spec.

    It doesnt matter how many cases of high geared but low skilled players people list in this thread, it is still a fact that higher ilvl people ON AVERAGE (=NOT ALWAYS) will do better, either because their gear or the experienced gained with the gear.

    If you are making a group you have the right to require others to be close to or at your ilvl, because you are not expected to boost anyone and when looking for group, you are not entitled to a boost by higher ilvl people.

    An example: You need one random (class/melee/ranged doesn't matter) dps for your flex group, you get 2 whispers, one from 520ilvl dps and one from 540ilvl dps, or if you are using OQ, these two join your waitlist at the same time.
    Every single QQer in this thread would take the 540ilvl one.
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