Poll: Who do you side with in the Ashenvale conflict?

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  1. #101
    Banned docterfreeze's Avatar
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    I wonder what the night elves thought of the humans cutting down thousands of trees to build stormwind...? I guess they're ok with that?

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfighter101 View Post
    It was one thing when there was a minor incursion, but completely destroying an outpost and lumbering entire sections of Ashenvale, as well as laying siege to multiple other settlements, she should at least be kicking ass, if not malfurion. I mean, destroying nature is kind of something Malfurion is pretty against.
    Problem is that the Horde's invasion of Ashenvale (and its subsequent aftermath) took place almost in line with the Twilight's Hammer attack in Hyjal, events that lead to the summoning of the Firelord right there. I don't think that Malfurion like the thought of Ashenvale's resources "exploited" by the Horde for their own benefits, and while I sincerely understand people pissed by the supposed inaction and indifference about the matter by his part, the threat of Ragnaros burning the World Tree and incinerating the world in the process stood firmly in top of the list in terms of priorities.

    I don't know how much intelligent would have been focusing on the Horde in Ashenvale while the rest of the world was going to burn (and sooner or later Ashenvale itself with it), so the task to fight against the Horde and try to reclaim Ashenvale for good fell inevitabily to Tyrande, which, unlike her husband, had no other responsibilities apart leading her people.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    The game didn't give me any good reason to hate the horde. Forums did that.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    I wonder what the night elves thought of the humans cutting down thousands of trees to build stormwind...? I guess they're ok with that?
    I didn't know Stormwind was located in Ashenvale...

    As far as it matters, NE care about their forest because it's their land. They own no land in EK.

  4. #104
    Titan Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    I wonder what the night elves thought of the humans cutting down thousands of trees to build stormwind...? I guess they're ok with that?
    Until the lumber is not taken by Ashenvale, I don't think they care, or at least they don't become mad, even if they care.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    The game didn't give me any good reason to hate the horde. Forums did that.

  5. #105
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    I side with the night elves for their point is right! In the end, Ashenvale is a sort of holy area of the night elves. They lived there, it was their land, their resources. How would orcs feel if night elves just appeared in Nagrand one day (when orcs had not known there's another world out there) and started cutting pieces of Osh'gun, the holy site of the orcs? I doubt they'd be happy and try to resolve the matter diplomatically, so I also believe the fact that the night elves tried to push the orcs out was right.

    Let's also consider the fact that the same happened with humans tehnically, after Cenarius died Tyrande went and saw humans and orcs, and attacked both. Yet at the end of the war the humans left the night elven lands, which improved the relations between the two races. Meanwhile, the orcs not only did not leave, but they continued to cut the forests and left the wood to rot, because they didn't need wood, they wanted to battle.
    To add to my point, in Classic WoW I went through Ashenvale on both sides of the story. On the night elven side, the worst you get relating to the battle with the Horde is sending care packages to the Silverwing Outpost and getting rid of a few orcs at the Warsong Lumber mill. On the Horde side however, the forsaken had killed the sleeping druids of the burrowed dens and were trying to use the ones remaining to test their poisons. The orcs had several quests to attack different outposts, like Raynewood retreat and Silverwing Camp, enslaving the water elementals near Silverwing Outpost to use against the night elves and a few others.
    So the orcs not only did they not try to mend the situation, they kept making it worse!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    Problem is that the Horde's invasion of Ashenvale (and its subsequent aftermath) took place almost in line with the Twilight's Hammer attack in Hyjal, events that lead to the summoning of the Firelord right there. I don't think that Malfurion like the thought of Ashenvale's resources "exploited" by the Horde for their own benefits, and while I sincerely understand people pissed by the supposed inaction and indifference about the matter by his part, the threat of Ragnaros burning the World Tree and incinerating the world in the process stood firmly in top of the list in terms of priorities.

    I don't know how much intelligent would have been focusing on the Horde in Ashenvale while the rest of the world was going to burn (and sooner or later Ashenvale itself with it), so the task to fight against the Horde and try to reclaim Ashenvale for good fell inevitabily to Tyrande, which, unlike her husband, had no other responsibilities apart leading her people.
    I think the issue people are having with this is the Horde participation. What do I mean, Orgrimmar is the closest Horde capital to Hyjal. So, if Ragnaros succeds, it will be incinerated first. In fact, in the trailer for the patch, it is incinerated first!

    Yet... the orcs were more busy fighting the night elves and did not send any forces to Hyjal. The tauren did. And now we have the opposite point, shouldn't the threat of Ragnaros burning the World Tree and incinerating the world in the process have stood firmly in top of the list in terms of priorities for the orcs as well considering this? Because, let's be honest, if the night elves and tauren lost in Hyjal, Ashenvale along with all the orcs and their precious won land would have been incinerated.

  6. #106
    Titan Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowraven View Post
    Yet... the orcs were more busy fighting the night elves and did not send any forces to Hyjal. The tauren did.
    The orcs didn't have the same scary vision of their capital burned to the ground that Thrall had.

    Apart this, the truth is that no Alliance or Horde squad/regiment or whatever partecipated in the defeat of Ragnaros. Oh wait, there are the shiny heroes!
    The adventures represent the only Horde/Alliance presence there, it is not that the tauren as a people partecipated, the tauren there were mostly druids of the Cenarion Circle, that for the matter, were under Malfurion's command. Hamuul isn't there as a "Horde emissary", he's there as a member of the Cenarion Circle.

    For the rest Horde and Alliance "heroes" partecipated alike since no one of them wanted their world to be annihilated, and Malfurion was more than happy to use any help in his hands's reach.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    The game didn't give me any good reason to hate the horde. Forums did that.

  7. #107
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    I say just burn it to the ground. Orcs get no lumber, night elves have no forest. Both sides are equal in misery.

  8. #108
    Light comes from darkness shise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    I voted Orcs, because I am in the Horde.
    They don't want to destroy it, they want to gather resources. I think that is a valid reason to take it over.
    There are ways to do it without destroying the land, which they do.

  9. #109
    Orcs! Horde all the way, no matter what. Alliance can keep Stormwind, Ironforge, and the subway connecting them. All else belongs to the Horde.

  10. #110
    Titan Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowraven View Post
    So the orcs not only did they not try to mend the situation, they kept making it worse!
    I don't want to excuse anything, especially after the full-scale invasion of Ashenvale in Cataclysm, but the matter is that night elves and orcs ended to be enemies of one another for the fault, and in the same time, the misunderstanding and the pretty different mentality of both.

    By one part, the night elves saw their sacred forest desecrated, and they were obviously habit to assault with fury and violence anyone who would have dared to do such a thing. They had their reasons, they are not perfectly right but indeed they are not wrong either, problem is that this automatically activated the orcish way of dealing with such kind of situations, something like "they dare to mess with us with no reason? SMASH THEM TO THE GROUND AND LET THEM SEE WE ARE NOT TO BE TRIFLE WITH!", especially when the orcs in question, well....were those of the Warsong Clan. They pretty continued to see the killing for just cutting some trees a bullshit, and the night elves continued to see the orcs desecrating their forest, and both sides are simply too proud to recognize their respective mistakes, so they kept to treat one another as hated enemies all along.

    As I said, I don't excuse actions, and is simply obvious that after their invasion in Cataclysm orcs have crossed the line (no matter the reasons); I'm just simply saying that "mending" the situation was something possible only with both sides lowering their heads and trying to understand the reasons of the other side, instead no one of them did that for even a single second.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    I say just burn it to the ground. Orcs get no lumber, night elves have no forest. Both sides are equal in misery.
    Funny thing is, Tyrande pretty formulated this plan in Wolfheart in case the orcs would have won.
    Last edited by Zulkhan; 2013-10-13 at 03:00 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    The game didn't give me any good reason to hate the horde. Forums did that.

  11. #111
    Reforged Gone Wrong The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    I'm voting on behalf of the Night Elves here. I feel like the Orcs have taken things way too far, especially when chopped down lumber was simply being left to rot as a taunt to the Elves. They've been far too cruel and vicious about getting lumber, and don't seem to be willing to do much looking elsewhere to find it. However, I do point out that the Night Elves were in the wrong for attacking without attempt of communication when the Orcs first arrived in Ashenvale.

    You know what would have been great?

    "Alright you lot, get back to work. Thrall wants his settlement finished by the time he returns." "Please, stop!" "What is this-?" "This is our sacred homeland and our trees are very precious to us. Why do you attack us?" "It's some sort of... strange elf? Yet she has the look of a warrior of all things...! Lok'tar ogar, Elf! We are the Horde, and we have orders to gather lumber to build a settlement for our leader." "Your methods are harmful and reckless. Our Wisps gather wood from the trees without damaging them. If you prove yourself worthy, we will assemble a mighty host of them and supply you with your lumber." "Hhnhh... we could simply take the wood from you, but I sense many of us would die in glorious battle, and Thrall will certainly want as many of us alive to support him. Very well, elf."

  12. #112
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    The initial hostility between the two races in WC3 was so-so. Both sides made cock ups that wound up causing the other to become more and more aggressive towards each other.

    The continued aggression post-Third War however is however simple Orc aggression. They had returned to a neutral understanding after working with each other and then the Orcs decided to continue invading even after they knew full well what they were doing. They know its their home but they don't care.
    It's also disputable how much of the Orcs reasons are simply lumber given how they apparently have left much of it to simply rot.

    Kaldorei easily at this point. Like Zael said the Night Elves have the stronger claim in Ashenvale whereas the Frostwolves mirror this in the Alterac Mountains.
    Last edited by Scummer; 2013-10-13 at 05:54 PM.

  13. #113
    Banned docterfreeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlarStormbringer View Post
    I'm voting on behalf of the Night Elves here. I feel like the Orcs have taken things way too far, especially when chopped down lumber was simply being left to rot as a taunt to the Elves. They've been far too cruel and vicious about getting lumber, and don't seem to be willing to do much looking elsewhere to find it. However, I do point out that the Night Elves were in the wrong for attacking without attempt of communication when the Orcs first arrived in Ashenvale.

    You know what would have been great?

    "Alright you lot, get back to work. Thrall wants his settlement finished by the time he returns." "Please, stop!" "What is this-?" "This is our sacred homeland and our trees are very precious to us. Why do you attack us?" "It's some sort of... strange elf? Yet she has the look of a warrior of all things...! Lok'tar ogar, Elf! We are the Horde, and we have orders to gather lumber to build a settlement for our leader." "Your methods are harmful and reckless. Our Wisps gather wood from the trees without damaging them. If you prove yourself worthy, we will assemble a mighty host of them and supply you with your lumber." "Hhnhh... we could simply take the wood from you, but I sense many of us would die in glorious battle, and Thrall will certainly want as many of us alive to support him. Very well, elf."
    Well there's that, then there's the fact that Night Elves are Alliance and Orcs are Horde.

    I imagine it really went like this-

    Night elf: *Sees Orcs cutting down trees*
    Night elf: "RAAAAAAAA!"
    Orc: "RAAAAAAAAA!"
    *Battle commences*

  14. #114
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    They don't want to destroy it, they want to gather resources. I think that is a valid reason to take it over.
    Except they're cutting down far more than they need and just leaving it to rot. If it was simply about resources you wouldn't have them wasting it so liberally.
    Or at at the very least they're just cutting down for the sake of it at this point. This has been a thing since vanilla where even under Thrall this was happening.
    Last edited by Scummer; 2013-10-13 at 06:06 PM.

  15. #115
    Reforged Gone Wrong The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    Well there's that, then there's the fact that Night Elves are Alliance and Orcs are Horde.

    I imagine it really went like this-

    Night elf: *Sees Orcs cutting down trees*
    Night elf: "RAAAAAAAA!"
    Orc: "RAAAAAAAAA!"
    *Battle commences*
    That's exactly how it went down, actually.

  16. #116
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    Orcs gotta orc.

  17. #117
    Herald of the Titans Murderdoll's Avatar
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    I side with the Orcs.

    They need resources, they are taking what they need to expand and sustain their existence.

    If the Night Elves cannot defend it, they do not deserve it. To the victor, go Ashenvale.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Murderdoll View Post
    I side with the Orcs.

    They need resources, they are taking what they need to expand and sustain their existence.

    If the Night Elves cannot defend it, they do not deserve it. To the victor, go Ashenvale.
    indeed, weather it's in the right or not is irrelevant. to the victor go the spoils, it has been the rule for ages now.

  19. #119
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murderdoll View Post
    They need resources, they are taking what they need to expand and sustain their existence..
    As I pointed out above that is not true. They are cutting more than they need and leaving it to rot.
    Last edited by Scummer; 2013-10-13 at 08:17 PM.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Murderdoll View Post
    I side with the Orcs.

    They need resources, they are taking what they need to expand and sustain their existence.

    If the Night Elves cannot defend it, they do not deserve it. To the victor, go Ashenvale.
    Luckily, the Night Elves have been bitch slapping the Orcs up one side of Ashenvale and down the other. They drove a potentially good leader into an insane warlord out of desperation because he just couldn't gain ground.

    Boo-ya.
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