Holy in 5.4, still 0.6%

[nobodysbaby]

I think I understand and play my class pretty well, both Disc and Holy. So again, I disagree with you. Holy lacks a lot compared to Disc this raid, wether it be utility, output (both dmg + healing and as I said, take PW:B into calculations aswell) or raid encounters being designed in Discs favor.

I am very well aware what matters, and we used to have a very strong niche in strong raidhealing, but we lost the uniqness with all healers becoming smart raidhealers (often with more utility to).

We can agree about 1 thing, Holy do have issues.

[willemh]

Except your wrong.

The three best fights for Holy would be these:

Norushen hc 25 hps top 100 logs: http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Norushen/...00000000111111 (Disc superior in output)
Thok: http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Thok_the_...00000000111111 (Disc and Holy almost a tie here)
Malkorok: http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Malkorok/...00000000111111 (Here is the only niched fight Holy really look better on)

The rest of the fights Disc are so far ahead, and I don't even take Dmg done and PW:B into calcs here, wich also matters.

So if youre trying to say we are "fine" cause we are 2nd on a niched fight... I just... I don't even! I heard this "Holy has better output" enough. It's simply not true anymore even if you take the top 100 logs.

If you would have read my post better you would have read I said that meters dont say anything. The fact disc sits higher on the meters because 90% of the fight there are no high healing requirements and disc snipes all the heals away with his absorbs doesnt mean that disc is better during the 10% where healing DOES matter and people are in risk of dying.

Please learn that healing is not about meters. Its about being capable of keeping people alive in the most stressy situations of an encounter.

[nobodysbaby]

If you would have read my post better you would have read I said that meters dont say anything. The fact disc sits higher on the meters because 90% of the fight there are no high healing requirements and disc snipes all the heals away with his absorbs doesnt mean that disc is better during the 10% where healing DOES matter and people are in risk of dying.

Please learn that healing is not about meters. Its about being capable of keeping people alive in the most stressy situations of an encounter.

This used to be very true in t15. What situations are there in this raid we need "Holys uber powers"?

[Blachshma]

I play holy main spec, 2 man healing SoO normals. We are still progressing but I am able to pretty much spam heal without going OOM. My healing partner for the most part has been a shaman, and on certain fights we both finish out at 200k hps. To me holy feels very strong, if not too strong at the moment. I am guessing you are doing something very wrong if you are failing at holy.

Well, I think if you're gonna compare healers, you better consider HC only. Normals, especially in SoO, have been on the easy side and since there's barely any big tank damage going (on Sha I end up as the last in Damage Taken meters as blood DK, its so funny!) and if anything, Holy's issue on normal is not going OoM, its getting sniped.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm not going to dig through anymore logs. I was just pointing it out since people seem to forget. Logs are to be taken with a grain of salt. Holy is in a very good place and the people that can't see it are people that don't play the class well or understand it thoroughly. Disc is far easier to "top the meters" and sadly a lot of people value that over what Holy brings to the table. I'm not saying Holy is perfect, cuz it's not. I'm just being a "middle man" here and trying to get people to not forgot about healing meters.

Let's ignore numbers then, and assume Holy's numbers are fine. Now let's ask what Holy brings to the table, what makes the spec special and worthy of a raid spot (especially in 10m, but also in 25m). Holy brings throughput, yes, but it doesn't bring any throughput that a monk, a druid or a shaman can't bring. Well, it excells in constant damage and also spread damage, but so does a druid, except druid bring more utility to a raid than a Holy priest. Add to that Chakra limitations mean that unlike, say, a druid, a Holy priest cannot effeciently heal the tank and the raid at the same time unless he's going for a very niche Serenity + Renew type of AoE healing, ignoring half its toolkit.

The first thing that needs to be done is to burn Chakra, and then try to forget this embarressing design every existed. Then, Holy needs some spell design updates (to keep things fresh and balanced), some sort of mana solution, and last but not least, something to make us attractive to raid leaders, like atonment/utility/absrobs is for disc.

Shammies have tons of cds and a self ress
Druids have Symbiosis, combat ress (I believe they also have some sort of atonment healing now)
Paladins have absorbs as mastery and nice cds
Disc has atonment, tons of absorbs and useful damage reduction cds
Monks have Fistweaving, and I'm not sure what else (haven't played MW a lot tbh)
Holy priests have...a tank CD that bugs a lot, and not much else.

All specs have far superior mana condition than Hpriests as well, and none have a Chakra limitation. If I didn't know better, I'd stay away as far as I can from Holy. Thankfully I play this game also for fun, and I'm still not giving up on my favorite spec, but its getting tougher...

[laplacedemon]

Shammies have tons of cds and a self ress
Druids have Symbiosis, combat ress (I believe they also have some sort of atonment healing now)
Paladins have absorbs as mastery and nice cds
Disc has atonment, tons of absorbs and useful damage reduction cds
Monks have Fistweaving, and I'm not sure what else (haven't played MW a lot tbh)
Holy priests have...a tank CD that bugs a lot, and not much else.

Isn't that a bit biased?

Shaman self-ress isn't exactly always up. Symbiosis usually isn't a deal breaker (but can be), combat ress can be done by other million people and that atonement talent is so bad, none of the healer druids would take it during progress. Devo Aura doesn't work with physical damage and can be bought by a dps/tank too, although HoS is a good tank cooldown.

I just can't understand how you can say that holy doesn't bring anything to the table especially in 10s while you can watch Jhazrun healing Garrosh. All the thing you mentioned are literally there; Serenity is a good way of spot healing and can pull the needed hps to AoE heal, 2p bloats it even more, you have a raid cooldown, you have speed buffs, Guardian Spirit, dps on demand, what exactly do you want? You can't have 6 different specs with all of them bringing "something others can't bring", because like it or not, more people are raiding 10s and they don't have 5-6 healers in their rosters.

And please stop saying everyone else having a better mana condition. Druids and paladins stack just as much Spirit, only odd-balls are MW and disc...

Yes, holy isn't popular, but it hasn't been since Firelands. And yet, this is pretty much the best tier for holy since that (again, looking from a 10s PoV), but you guys are acting like it's the worst spec in game. I really don't get it. I do know holy's weaknesses, but they're really not as bad as people act like they are...

[Blachshma]

Isn't that a bit biased?

Shaman self-ress isn't exactly always up. Symbiosis usually isn't a deal breaker (but can be), combat ress can be done by other million people and that atonement talent is so bad, none of the healer druids would take it during progress. Devo Aura doesn't work with physical damage and can be bought by a dps/tank too, although HoS is a good tank cooldown.

I just can't understand how you can say that holy doesn't bring anything to the table especially in 10s while you can watch Jhazrun healing Garrosh. All the thing you mentioned are literally there; Serenity is a good way of spot healing and can pull the needed hps to AoE heal, 2p bloats it even more, you have a raid cooldown, you have speed buffs, Guardian Spirit, dps on demand, what exactly do you want? You can't have 6 different specs with all of them bringing "something others can't bring", because like it or not, more people are raiding 10s and they don't have 5-6 healers in their rosters.

And please stop saying everyone else having a better mana condition. Druids and paladins stack just as much Spirit, only odd-balls are MW and disc...

Yes, holy isn't popular, but it hasn't been since Firelands. And yet, this is pretty much the best tier for holy since that (again, looking from a 10s PoV), but you guys are acting like it's the worst spec in game. I really don't get it. I do know holy's weaknesses, but they're really not as bad as people act like they are...

I said it doesn't bring anything special, but obviously it is a healing powerhouse when played right. Problem is, when you solo heal, that's your chance to shine (no sniping, less overhealing, etc.). But Hpriests don't get a chance to shine when other healers are there. They are the most prone to overhealing and they arent' attractive enough to bring to raids. Dps on demand? You mean a 30-second chakra cd that let's you dps and you do no healing (unles you cast extremely ineffecient healing spells), and for the dps to shine you need special gear. Raid cd? A good one, yes, but druids bring pretty much the same one, as do shammies (only without channeling).

GS is awesome, I love it, but its pretty much the only utility Holy has. I hope they never change it, just fix the death proc.

Holy needs a niche, disc has plenty of it, and that's why its so desired. I don't think its much to ask, I really don't.

And you're right, 10m don't have 5-6 healers in their roster, which is why they will most likely want their priest to go disc. Absorbs, added dps, and pretty much the same numbers.

[twilista]

I just can't understand how you can say that holy doesn't bring anything to the table especially in 10s while you can watch Jhazrun healing Garrosh.

You are comparing the skill of one of the very BEST healers in the world and saying that holy is fine based off of that. I would say his skill had much more to do with anything than his spec, and paragon themselves said they could have 2 healed it if they wanted to, and I would bet that if they 2 healed it he would probably not have been holy.

Chakra needs to die the devs need to apologize to the priest class for forcing it on holy for so long and then they need to bring some real utility to the raid to make them stand out from the rest of the healers. It used to be true that holy brought some amazing raid aoe abilities, and they still do, but they were sought after back in the day because no other healer could do it on the same level as a holy priest. Now almost every healer can bring the same amount of aoe a holy priest can without the limitations of chakra nor the crazy amounts of overheal and 2 of those specs can bring damage while another 2 brings absorption to the table.

So will there always be a small subset of ppl who will succeed in holy regardless of what the blues do that makes us /facepalm? Sure, but a lot more of that is because of the skill of the player as well as the raids ability to cater around the niche of a holy priest to make them succeed.

[laplacedemon]

I said it doesn't bring anything special, but obviously it is a healing powerhouse when played right. Problem is, when you solo heal, that's your chance to shine (no sniping, less overhealing, etc.). But Hpriests don't get a chance to shine when other healers are there. They are the most prone to overhealing and they arent' attractive enough to bring to raids. Dps on demand? You mean a 30-second chakra cd that let's you dps and you do no healing (unles you cast extremely ineffecient healing spells), and for the dps to shine you need special gear. Raid cd? A good one, yes, but druids bring pretty much the same one, as do shammies (only without channeling).

GS is awesome, I love it, but its pretty much the only utility Holy has. I hope they never change it, just fix the death proc.

Holy needs a niche, disc has plenty of it, and that's why its so desired. I don't think its much to ask, I really don't.

Sniping happens to everyone. Everybody overheals and it doesn't matter in the slightest, especially now we're in the last tier. Even disc, which hps don't depend on the number of healers as much as others and the spec which is less prone to overhealing shines more if you're solo-healing. Blame the whole system to be honest; absorbs, ever-ticking HoTs, smart heals, instant smart heals and the not-so-hard-to-target heals like PoH created this whole mess.

If we aren't counting red chakra, we shouldn't count fistweaving either by the way, that also limits hps although less. Yet both have their uses and it's something some specs just can't do (I would suggest to not talk about the short-comings of red chakra with a holy paladin)...

Can you give me an example of what kind of utility or niche you would like holy priests to have? Don't get me wrong, I'm all for having less limitations and short-comings but I can't really think of a thing I miss or go "Oh boy I wish I had ..." whenever I play holy.

You are comparing the skill of one of the very BEST healers in the world and saying that holy is fine based off of that. I would say his skill had much more to do with anything than his spec, and paragon themselves said they could have 2 healed it if they wanted to, and I would bet that if they 2 healed it he would probably not have been holy.

Chakra needs to die the devs need to apologize to the priest class for forcing it on holy for so long and then they need to bring some real utility to the raid to make them stand out from the rest of the healers. It used to be true that holy brought some amazing raid aoe abilities, and they still do, but they were sought after back in the day because no other healer could do it on the same level as a holy priest. Now almost every healer can bring the same amount of aoe a holy priest can without the limitations of chakra nor the crazy amounts of overheal and 2 of those specs can bring damage while another 2 brings absorption to the table.

So will there always be a small subset of ppl who will succeed in holy regardless of what the blues do that makes us /facepalm? Sure, but a lot more of that is because of the skill of the player as well as the raids ability to cater around the niche of a holy priest to make them succeed.

Of course I am using one of, if not the best priest to talk about holy. I mean, who am I going to look at to see what a spec *can* bring? Most of the best players who can play specs to their fullest are in guilds like Method or Paragon and while their needs are different (I won't have to solo heal Garrosh hc for example), you can see the limits of any spec at their play rather than an average guild.

You can't really balance or judge anything on average anyway. If I were to evaluate how good disc's toolkit is based on the people I encounter while pugging flex on alts, I'd think it's really horrible. Yet I know it isn't. Same with sniping or overheals (I still don't understand why anyone actually cares about overheals unless they're going absolutely oom), average isn't good enough for things like that to matter.

I'm not saying "Holy is great, because someone solo healed Garrosh hc" though, I'm just saying holy has a good toolkit and based on my own experience, I think it's fine to the extent that I can play holy even outside the obviously non-disc fights. This tier really isn't bad on holy, but after many tiers of disc > holy, we won't ever have a 50%-50% priest population (and there are other factors such as the damage patterns, other healers etc).

I also get the complaint about Chakra. The whole thing about GC feeling good about himself if he's in the right Chakra state makes me think developers are really bad at their own game. And it's not logical to design healers to be able to do everything, while giving one of the specs a limitation. It hasn't caused me that many problems to be honest, but it doesn't change the fact that it's a bad design.

"Non-disc" priests surely have some limitations, but I think a lot of the people are exaggerating those.

[Nightstorm]

The point is disc is much more powerful on all but 3 fights because holy lacks a good smart heal. ABOVE ALL 0.6% REPRESENTATION ON GUILDS THAT HAVE DOWNED 6 OR MORE HEROIC BOSSES.....

Sure holy is fine if you are not a progression guild or you exploit holy by running less healers with a good group of DPS that don't fail at mechanics for the other 97% of wow players Holy is less viable than disc by a landslide. If you are not in that guild that has 6 or more heroic bosses down in SoO this post is not for you.

[Anastacy]

The point is disc is much more powerful on all but 3 fights because holy lacks a good smart heal. ABOVE ALL 0.6% REPRESENTATION ON GUILDS THAT HAVE DOWNED 6 OR MORE HEROIC BOSSES.....

Sure holy is fine if you are not a progression guild or you exploit holy by running less healers with a good group of DPS that don't fail at mechanics for the other 97% of wow players Holy is less viable than disc by a landslide. If you are not in that guild that has 6 or more heroic bosses down in SoO this post is not for you.

It sounds like the only people that "this post is for" are the ones that continually want to whine about what they don't have.

We totally needed yet another bitch fest from you about Holy vs. Disc.

Edit: For clarification, I just wanted to point out that I cannot understand how a person makes this post, and then makes this thread...and wants to be taken seriously.

[Blachshma]

Sniping happens to everyone. Everybody overheals and it doesn't matter in the slightest, especially now we're in the last tier. Even disc, which hps don't depend on the number of healers as much as others and the spec which is less prone to overhealing shines more if you're solo-healing. Blame the whole system to be honest; absorbs, ever-ticking HoTs, smart heals, instant smart heals and the not-so-hard-to-target heals like PoH created this whole mess.

If we aren't counting red chakra, we shouldn't count fistweaving either by the way, that also limits hps although less. Yet both have their uses and it's something some specs just can't do (I would suggest to not talk about the short-comings of red chakra with a holy paladin)...

Can you give me an example of what kind of utility or niche you would like holy priests to have? Don't get me wrong, I'm all for having less limitations and short-comings but I can't really think of a thing I miss or go "Oh boy I wish I had ..." whenever I play holy.



Of course I am using one of, if not the best priest to talk about holy. I mean, who am I going to look at to see what a spec *can* bring? Most of the best players who can play specs to their fullest are in guilds like Method or Paragon and while their needs are different (I won't have to solo heal Garrosh hc for example), you can see the limits of any spec at their play rather than an average guild.

You can't really balance or judge anything on average anyway. If I were to evaluate how good disc's toolkit is based on the people I encounter while pugging flex on alts, I'd think it's really horrible. Yet I know it isn't. Same with sniping or overheals (I still don't understand why anyone actually cares about overheals unless they're going absolutely oom), average isn't good enough for things like that to matter.

I'm not saying "Holy is great, because someone solo healed Garrosh hc" though, I'm just saying holy has a good toolkit and based on my own experience, I think it's fine to the extent that I can play holy even outside the obviously non-disc fights. This tier really isn't bad on holy, but after many tiers of disc > holy, we won't ever have a 50%-50% priest population (and there are other factors such as the damage patterns, other healers etc).

I also get the complaint about Chakra. The whole thing about GC feeling good about himself if he's in the right Chakra state makes me think developers are really bad at their own game. And it's not logical to design healers to be able to do everything, while giving one of the specs a limitation. It hasn't caused me that many problems to be honest, but it doesn't change the fact that it's a bad design.

"Non-disc" priests surely have some limitations, but I think a lot of the people are exaggerating those.

I highly disagree with the dps comment. A monk can go fistweaving and switch back to normal healing as much as he likes. Also, he heals when he does the damage, just like disc priests, only less effecient. A holy priest cannot dps/heal at the same gcd, bar Solace (which not many Hpriests take anyway). They also can't switch to dps stance and back to healing stance at will, they need to wait 30 seconds for that.

I agree the game has too many smart heals, and way too many absorbs. Healing should be made less trivial, but as it is currently, it seems there's no solid spot for Hpriests.

An example for utility - drop that crappy Healing Rain copycat called Sanctuary and instead make it a damage reduction cd of sorts, you know, like an actual sanctuary. Or maybe give Holy atonment as well for low damage periods (I don't mind it being a bit different than disc, like more damage and less healing or vice versa). We might as well get a secondary throughput cd, like Tree of Life, AA, etc.

[Deleted]

The Main problem is that Holy is not viable in 10 man Heroics. He has some bosses in 25, but not 10

>inb4 jhazrun
He would be better as disc for most Bosses(actually, he played)

[laplacedemon]

If you are not in that guild that has 6 or more heroic bosses down in SoO this post is not for you.

Oh I didn't know I needed special permissions from you. Sorry, that's not how forums work. I might have >6 hcs or not, but you won't ever know it. I am terribly sorry for not feeling like having to prove myself, especially to you.

Also, you're using a website which uses the specs people log out with as evidence for holy's being played by 0.7%. I mean, how good is that?

Edit: For clarification, I just wanted to point out that I cannot understand how a person makes this post, and then makes this thread...and wants to be taken seriously.

Compared to his posts about how FDCL is really bad for holy since holy doesn't spot heal and therefore nobody will take that talent, this thread at least has an ounce of reality though.

An example for utility - drop that crappy Healing Rain copycat called Sanctuary and instead make it a damage reduction cd of sorts, you know, like an actual sanctuary. Or maybe give Holy atonment as well for low damage periods (I don't mind it being a bit different than disc, like more damage and less healing or vice versa). We might as well get a secondary throughput cd, like Tree of Life, AA, etc.

IIRC we had Atonement for Holy for a short while during MoP. For that to work, it needs to do comparable hps to what holy usually does (and that's a bit hard since holy lacks Penance) or else you end up with the Druid talent which nobody uses for progress. Your idea of more damage and less healing also works though, monks have that; they can pull higher dps than disc, but they sacrifice quite a lot of hps for that (for the record, that's the only utility they have too). I don't think it's going to happen though; although maybe at 6.0 they will change it so every healer can dps to heal to some extent.

I can't say Sanctuary as a small cd would be useless. Well, any buffs would be useful of course. If that would happen, it should happen after a Chakra change though. Going disc just to have Barrier used to happen, so I guess that might be an important factor depending on the fight.

I don't think I felt the need of a output cd as holy, but as I raid 10s, I don't have to take DI most of the time so I can pick ToF or PI (used to be more PI, nowadays it's more ToF). Maybe DI should be baseline for the next expansion...

The Main problem is that Holy is not viable in 10 man Heroics. He has some bosses in 25, but not 10

>inb4 jhazrun
He would be better as disc for most Bosses(actually, he played)

Like what? I play Holy on 9 of the 14 fights if that's what you're asking.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...4#post22730964

You better inform Jhazrun then, clearly he's doing it wrong :P

[Dierdre]

The issue with holy is usually PEBKAC.

[Anastacy]

Compared to his posts about how FDCL is really bad for holy since holy doesn't spot heal and therefore nobody will take that talent, this thread at least has an ounce of reality though.

Debatable. But, in reading the two posts I linked, he flip flops from saying "X=X" to "X=WTF DO I DO??", apparently just to win attention.

Consider it won, I guess.

[Blachshma]

Oh I didn't know I needed special permissions from you. Sorry, that's not how forums work. I might have >6 hcs or not, but you won't ever know it. I am terribly sorry for not feeling like having to prove myself, especially to you.

Also, you're using a website which uses the specs people log out with as evidence for holy's being played by 0.7%. I mean, how good is that?



Compared to his posts about how FDCL is really bad for holy since holy doesn't spot heal and therefore nobody will take that talent, this thread at least has an ounce of reality though.



IIRC we had Atonement for Holy for a short while during MoP. For that to work, it needs to do comparable hps to what holy usually does (and that's a bit hard since holy lacks Penance) or else you end up with the Druid talent which nobody uses for progress. Your idea of more damage and less healing also works though, monks have that; they can pull higher dps than disc, but they sacrifice quite a lot of hps for that (for the record, that's the only utility they have too). I don't think it's going to happen though; although maybe at 6.0 they will change it so every healer can dps to heal to some extent.

I can't say Sanctuary as a small cd would be useless. Well, any buffs would be useful of course. If that would happen, it should happen after a Chakra change though. Going disc just to have Barrier used to happen, so I guess that might be an important factor depending on the fight.

I don't think I felt the need of a output cd as holy, but as I raid 10s, I don't have to take DI most of the time so I can pick ToF or PI (used to be more PI, nowadays it's more ToF). Maybe DI should be baseline for the next expansion...






http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...4#post22730964

You better inform Jhazrun then, clearly he's doing it wrong :P

Lacking penance is not an issue, as they can buff HF/Smite instead for Holy only, or maybe make Chastice, aside of the little damage it does (which will also count in atonemet), also increase the crit chance for incoming damage spells by 25% for 15 seconds (something like what Serenity does to healing, except a longer effect since Chastise is a 30 seconds cd). Like I said, it could be doing more damage and less healing or more healing and less damage than disc, it doesn't have to be exactly he same atonement as disc.

DI is somewhat of a default choice for me because it is nearly an on demand instant smart AoE, better than CoH (on demade cause I cast a lot of PoH anyway).

Overal I am positive that if Holy feels fresh again with its toolkit and will posses some desirable utility, people would play the spec more and it'll have its solid spot among healers, where right now its the least played spec by far.

[Nightstorm]

Also, you're using a website which uses the specs people log out with as evidence for holy's being played by 0.7%. I mean, how good is that?

So what your saying is a lot of people get out of raid and respec Disc or shadow before they log out?

What ever, holy is fine, shaman is fine, druid is fine, we are all fine. Keep on trucking and never want for anything. Got it!

[Kalmah]

So what your saying is a lot of people get out of raid and respec Disc or shadow before they log out?

What ever, holy is fine, shaman is fine, druid is fine, we are all fine. Keep on trucking and never want for anything. Got it!

Raidbots is in my opinion a much better source for what spec representation is in raiding, since it's based on actual logs of actual kills.

To pick a few random examples (don't forget to set "all parses")
- Fallen protectors 25H: Disc 19.44%, Holy 9.41%
- Norushen 25H: Disc 19.46%, Holy 9.78%
- Iron Juggernaut 25H: Disc 18.17%, Holy 10.21%
- Malkorok 25H: Disc 12.76%, Holy 15.79%

Disc is barely twice as popular as holy for 25 heroic raiding. Maybe it's different for 10H? Let's see.

- Fallen Protectors 10H: Disc 26.02%, Holy 2.92%
- Norushen 10H: Disc 24.90%, Holy 4.79%
- Iron Juggernaut 10H: Disc 27.83%, Holy 2.93%
- Malkorok 10H: Disc 20.52%, Holy 8.83%

So the imbalance comes mostly from 10M. It's worth noting that disc priests are overrepresented in 10man and healing priests in general are overrepresented in both formats.

[Deleted]

Disc is kinda OP in 10m due to attunement premptive healing, and I think is the most played healing spec overall... comparing it with holy in terms of popularity is not the right way to go to solve the problems of the holy spec.
Holy is very viable mostly on fights with healing perks like Immerseus, Malkorok and Thok... fact is none wants to respec, reforge, change gems for 3 out of 14 fights.

[Blachshma]

So what your saying is a lot of people get out of raid and respec Disc or shadow before they log out?

What ever, holy is fine, shaman is fine, druid is fine, we are all fine. Keep on trucking and never want for anything. Got it!

I'm pretty sure GC knows Holy needs help, especially compared to disc, but he just doesn't care enough. The spec is barely played to make it a top priority, so I doubt its going to get an overhaul. From a buisness point of view, he's right. Why bother making an overhaul to the least played healing spec in the game (by far!)?

- - - Updated - - -

Disc is kinda OP in 10m due to attunement premptive healing, and I think is the most played healing spec overall... comparing it with holy in terms of popularity is not the right way to go to solve the problems of the holy spec.
Holy is very viable mostly on fights with healing perks like Immerseus, Malkorok and Thok... fact is none wants to respec, reforge, change gems for 3 out of 14 fights.

I would take Holy on Norushen over disc any day of the week, feels much safer with healing on demand rather than having to rely on inconsistent absorbs and a tough time getting the group back up.