[MoP] Protection Paladin Guide

[Nillo]

4p only works if used on yourself.

[Deleted]

4p only works if used on yourself.

Ah right, thanks. That was how they changed it.

[MerinPally]

Sorry Sorry Sorry I said I'd do the updates yesterday but didn't get a chance, lab report took so long and I've had labs all day from 9am until now without a break. Will get to the updates tonight... (he says... thank God the information is already public and people flick to the last page anyway).

[Pickwickman]

I am honestly starting to get conflicted about our set bonus. I no longer really think the 4p is that amazing, highly likely I am just going for 2p rather than 4p. The 2p is great for several fights.

Especially as I only got 1 set piece so far, and already managed to get several heroic / heroic war forged off pieces. This weeks farm is already over so I find it highly unlikely to even get the 4p within a respectable matter of time. I rather use my VP upgrades on other pieces. To be honest I think I am gonna sip the 2p competely.

I know right; the way we use EF now won't sync well with the 4p in my opinion, it just feels wrong.

[MerinPally]

Ok changes made, albeit rather quickly. Will doublecheck after I get back from the shops to make sure I can eat tonight...

[Nillo]

I've been starting to simply spam 3 stack BoGs on fights where survivability was not an issue for the sake of maxing Glyph of WoG and ShoR uptimes. Might not be all that great but seeing 30+ sec on ShoR with a lucky streak is fun.

Edit: Heroic Warforged Vial Boooyah!

[Gothmog]

Under flasks & elixirs, you skipped out Elixir of the Rapids (750 haste, battle elixir) which is easily superior to other battle elixirs and nicely counterbalancing to 1500 stam depending on your needs in the encounter.

[MerinPally]

Under flasks & elixirs, you skipped out Elixir of the Rapids (750 haste, battle elixir) which is easily superior to other battle elixirs and nicely counterbalancing to 1500 stam depending on your needs in the encounter.

Oops I did indeed, thank you very much. Completely didn't notice that.

Edit: Amended.

[celinamuna]

I've been starting to simply spam 3 stack BoGs on fights where survivability was not an issue for the sake of maxing Glyph of WoG and ShoR uptimes. Might not be all that great but seeing 30+ sec on ShoR with a lucky streak is fun.

Edit: Heroic Warforged Vial Boooyah!

10/10 jelly of vial

Why not go for 4p if you're going for 2p anyway. chest and shoulder are both exp/mastery and once we get fully SoO geared reaching 50% haste with that 4p is easily attainable. Doesn't get much better itemized than exp/mastery after that and the 4p really is pretty good.

One thing that some of you aren't considering regarding the 4p is that you can use EF on a raid member. This basically means that every single time you use a sotr after 3 stacks you get a free 3hopo EF to cast on a raid member (which can proc DP) Not as good as chaining harsh words but it's extra procs and a lot of raid healing. Consider running around with 300k vengeance and being able to toss out 4 EFs for free on raid members each 'cycle'.

haste+parry and exp+mastery vs haste+mastery and haste+mastery (plus offpieces drop off H protectors + galak vs thok and siege, combined with benefit for us vs benefit for other ppl on same tier token)

[Nillo]

10/10 jelly of vial

That's only our third heroic warforged trinket this week.

[Kethmil]

Guys, wich neck piece are you aiming for as bis?

No haste/str one on this tier, so my posibilites are:

Inmerseus crystalline eye (agi+haste+mastery)
Gleaming eye of the deilsaur (agi+haste+crit)
Ashflare Pendant (int+haste+hit)
Juggernaut's Ignition Keys (str+hit+mastery)

Being prolly haste capped later in the tier will justify getting last one? Or are planning on getting one of the agi/int ones, after "rightful raiders" get theirs?

[MerinPally]

Juggernauts. Almost certainly.

[celinamuna]

That's only our third heroic warforged trinket this week.

I would call hax if not for the fact that we got 2-4 (not sure exact number) heroic warforged weapons this week.

And def juggernaut.

[Drummerboy]

Not sure what other's experience is but my co-tank, a warrior, is beating me in DPS now. If there are adds, I'm one thunderclap away from not tanking anything. I feel like I'm struggling to fight warrior bleeds for threat (slight exaggeration). Even Raidbots is showing paladins at the bottom now. Is this payback after dominating for an entire expansion?

[Deleted]

Try with a BrM -_-. Unless I can have like 10 secs with the adds to get vengeance and aggro he'll just come in, Keg Smash and RJW and aggro all of them while I stand there crying against my shield.

As far as I can tell the only fight where I clearly beat his DPS was Garrosh (probs related to me tanking Garrosh during P1) and Iron Jugg is usually pretty even, everything else he clearly beats me, specially if there's AoE. Gladly I got a bunch of gear this last week, got like 2 or 3 pieces just yesterday which brought me really close to the haste cap (should hit it once I have enough VP to upgrade them all) and may make it closer but, yea, as far as I can tell Paladins are really bad on tank dps atm unless you get more uptime on the boss or pull some gimmick (one of the guilds in our realm actually did this for a while, having a tank there who's only job was to taunt stuff until the other cleared stacks).

[celinamuna]

Try with a BrM -_-. Unless I can have like 10 secs with the adds to get vengeance and aggro he'll just come in, Keg Smash and RJW and aggro all of them while I stand there crying against my shield.

As far as I can tell the only fight where I clearly beat his DPS was Garrosh (probs related to me tanking Garrosh during P1) and Iron Jugg is usually pretty even, everything else he clearly beats me, specially if there's AoE. Gladly I got a bunch of gear this last week, got like 2 or 3 pieces just yesterday which brought me really close to the haste cap (should hit it once I have enough VP to upgrade them all) and may make it closer but, yea, as far as I can tell Paladins are really bad on tank dps atm unless you get more uptime on the boss or pull some gimmick (one of the guilds in our realm actually did this for a while, having a tank there who's only job was to taunt stuff until the other cleared stacks).

I wouldn't say that we're incredibly far behind tho. I can see it sometimes being hard to curb stop other tanks in dps like we used to, but i'd say that we're still fairly competetive.

[Gothmog]

I used to tank with a Brewmaster and although I had a disadvantage in gear, there was no competition damage wise, I got beat in any scenario, most of all AoE of course.

Now I'm tanking with a DK, also outdpsing me handily. Not nearly as much in AoE as Brewmaster ofc. He's in dps gear.

Did a tiny bit of tanking with a warrior, also no contest in AoE tanking, seemed pretty even on singletarget. He's crit build.

Playing my Guardian alt, I don't see a pally holding aoe threat against a druid either.

What's left?

To sum up.. I think we may actually be the worst aoe threat class. Singletarget damage we may be lacking a bit behind few other classes (especially monk) but nothing too serious.
Get to high enough vengeance however and it evens out... sadly, that isn't a very frequent scenario.

[Nillo]

I wouldn't say that we're incredibly far behind tho. I can see it sometimes being hard to curb stop other tanks in dps like we used to, but i'd say that we're still fairly competetive.

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Sha_of_Pr...00011111000000
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Galakras/...00011111000000
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spoils_of...00011111000000

We're definitely behind on aoe fights by a large margin. I mean I even lose aggro of the Garrosh adds to our monk tank even though he has next to no vengeance compared to me. (220k vs 50k?)
Idk - they would probably have to buff HotR by a lot (like 50%) to make us competitive on aoe fights.

[celinamuna]

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Sha_of_Pr...00011111000000
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Galakras/...00011111000000
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spoils_of...00011111000000

We're definitely behind on aoe fights by a large margin. I mean I even lose aggro of the Garrosh adds to our monk tank even though he has next to no vengeance compared to me. (220k vs 50k?)
Idk - they would probably have to buff HotR by a lot (like 50%) to make us competitive on aoe fights.

HotR is ubershit even with +100% buff.

This is Dark shamans with me going uber scumbag mode (granted lfr) http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/y...?s=3086&e=3485
Every time slimes were up i used HotR, as you can see it did a wonderful 2.7% of total dmg.
I'd say they should buff it by 200%+ to make it not terribad. (Ideally i liked cata version, when all bad tanks used only it, but cs would still be slightly ahead on single target)

edit : it also might not be parsing some of the logs correctly, since i know for a fact that some of my logs weren't counted in. :/ (into the statistics)

[Nillo]

Or maybe make Alabaster Shield cause aoe damage.

And yeah idk why HotR is still in the game - most of the time I only use it once on an add group to spread the dmg debuff and then don't bother with it because I've already moved it to a bad keybinding.