45 min LFR queue as DPS. Yes, it's about tanks...

[Deleted]

I don't want to wait 45 minutes for the LFR queue to pop

You know what the biggest problem with WoW is?

It's the me-culture. My needs are the most important. _I_ do not want to do that. _I_ do not want to wait. _I_ must now get everything. Me, me, me it's all about me.

And no this isn't aimed at you - just a generic observation of the modern society.

[Louis CK]

You know what the biggest problem with WoW is?

It's the me-culture. My needs are the most important. _I_ do not want to do that. _I_ do not want to wait. _I_ must now get everything. Me, me, me it's all about me.

And no this isn't aimed at you - just a generic observation of the modern society.

That's human nature.

[Drakesong]

You know what the biggest problem with WoW is?

It's the me-culture. My needs are the most important. _I_ do not want to do that. _I_ do not want to wait. _I_ must now get everything. Me, me, me it's all about me.

And no this isn't aimed at you - just a generic observation of the modern society.

You forget that this is a game, and a game is supposed to be fun! What is fun about waiting 45 minutes in line?

[Louis CK]

You forget that this is a game, and a game is supposed to be fun! What is fun about waiting 45 minutes in line?

The game offers quite a bit to do while you're waiting. If you choose to sit and do nothing while you wait and/or find no enjoyment in anything else that the game offers, it might not be right for you. Just a thought, could be wrong.

I do like that you can queue up for multiple runs now, once I'm done with one, I usually get immediately into the next (before I even leave the first one).

With that said, I got the last piece I need from LFR last night (just resubbed after some time away, so catching up on gear), so I won't be going back in.

[Scinder]

You want more tanks in LFR? I'll be perfectly honest what myself and all of my tank friends think about LFR and ever going back. You DPS that think you're hot shit when you're not need to keep quiet, know your roles and execute because the DPS that are actually elite aren't usually the ones foaming at the mouth. It's the LFR heroes. Stop pissing off the tanks and healers and do your jobs and more tanks will be willing to join. Stop tunneling the wrong mobs or the boss when you should be on adds. Stop being AFK half of the time and for Gods sake, stop standing in shit.

Change the attitude and the tanks will come back. It will take time and if Blizzard offered more incentive to get tanks actually wanting to do LFR, that should help out as well. No one is asking you to bow down to the will of the tanks but most of us aren't willing to put up with your crap when we can run Flex/Norm/Heroic content with guildmates or friends.

If not, continue to sit and wait, and wait, and wait for a re roll tank to show up and maybe he/she will know enough to help get you through to the next encounter.

[Odina]

You forget that this is a game, and a game is supposed to be fun! What is fun about waiting 45 minutes in line?

Don't know why do people pay so much to go to amusemnt parks to sit in line for an hour to ride a 40 second roller coaster?

[Ronduwil]

Hmm, perhaps you don't see it. I have been watching people play WoW since vanilla.

And therefore you have lost touch with the manner in which a new player experiences the game. Most of the players from Vanilla left long ago. The game has to continue to draw in new players or it will die off. That is what I was saying. Don't expect Blizzard to ramp difficulty up to satisfy someone who has played non-stop for 8 years because that's just not reasonable.

So when you're now telling me I'm moving goal posts, I honestly don't know if you're not understanding me or have not paid attention to WoW raiding at all.

I'm saying that your claim that the game is dumbed down is false. In order to try to make it true you amended the original statement to be, "The game is dumbed down with respect to the skill level of the best players in the game (some of whom have 8 years experience with it) at this time." That's moving the goal posts from the original statement.

The game's difficulty curve has not increased as much as the learning curve of the player base as a whole.

And this is false. You don't know the skill level of "the playerbase as a whole." According to many on this forum, the average player is dumb as a post now. So which is it? Is Blizzard dumbing down the game to accommodate the moronic masses or are they failing to ramp up difficulty at a pace fast enough to satisfy the elite WoW pros that dominate today's landscape? You can't have it both ways. I think you really mean that the difficulty has not kept pace with your and your guild's improvement, and that could be true. It's not reasonable to expect the game to cater exclusively to you, however. That was the point I was making. Also, keep in mind that Paragon, the first western guild to kill Garrosh in 10H, wiped over 486 times on him: Paragon Interview. That doesn't sound easy to me.

[Louis CK]

You want more tanks in LFR? I'll be perfectly honest what myself and all of my tank friends think about LFR and ever going back. You DPS that think you're hot shit when you're not need to keep quiet, know your roles and execute because the DPS that are actually elite aren't usually the ones foaming at the mouth. It's the LFR heroes. Stop pissing off the tanks and healers and do your jobs and more tanks will be willing to join. Stop tunneling the wrong mobs or the boss when you should be on adds. Stop being AFK half of the time and for Gods sake, stop standing in shit.

Change the attitude and the tanks will come back. It will take time and if Blizzard offered more incentive to get tanks actually wanting to do LFR, that should help out as well. No one is asking you to bow down to the will of the tanks but most of us aren't willing to put up with your crap when we can run Flex/Norm/Heroic content with guildmates or friends.

If not, continue to sit and wait, and wait, and wait for a re roll tank to show up and maybe he/she will know enough to help get you through to the next encounter.

This is true of most people, not just tanks. All the things you listed are irritants for everyone, and the reason that anyone that can run anything other than LFR does.

Anonymity allows people to do really stupid things.

[Strafir]

You want more tanks in LFR? I'll be perfectly honest what myself and all of my tank friends think about LFR and ever going back. You DPS that think you're hot shit when you're not need to keep quiet, know your roles and execute because the DPS that are actually elite aren't usually the ones foaming at the mouth. It's the LFR heroes. Stop pissing off the tanks and healers and do your jobs and more tanks will be willing to join. Stop tunneling the wrong mobs or the boss when you should be on adds. Stop being AFK half of the time and for Gods sake, stop standing in shit.

Change the attitude and the tanks will come back. It will take time and if Blizzard offered more incentive to get tanks actually wanting to do LFR, that should help out as well. No one is asking you to bow down to the will of the tanks but most of us aren't willing to put up with your crap when we can run Flex/Norm/Heroic content with guildmates or friends.

If not, continue to sit and wait, and wait, and wait for a re roll tank to show up and maybe he/she will know enough to help get you through to the next encounter.

I'm so happy someone finally gets it. The problem isn't the lack of tanks and healers, but the quality of the damage dealers. As a tank or healer you have minimal say in how quick something gets downed, you could have the best gear ever solohealing a 25man raid but if the rest of the raid is filled with incompetent simpletons it's going to take you all day to finish something that should take 30 minutes. And that dumbass bag of crap you sometimes get doesn't come even close to compensating for the soulcrushing feeling you get every time you queue up into LFR.

Before 5.4 new players and alts atleast had to play through a few 5mans and the older tier raids to briefly get to know their class and spec making them be able to perform atleast somewhat okay when now they instantly jump into raids without any previous experience performing so unbelievably bad that it I sometimes have a hard time to even comprehend it. Arguably one of the worst moves they could have implemented from a "get people to get along better" -point of view.

It's like critical thinking has become less and less relevant in the gaming community during the past few years. Amazing performances of dedication and dexterity by groups of people (guilds) that in the past was admired and praised has somehow been turned into a negative and instead of people making a change within themselves they have turned to developers saying they feel very entitled which will not result in a positive change.

Its obvious that most people suck at this game on so many levels which would be fine if most of those players wouldn't be living in some sort of bubble being convinced that everyone else is wrong instead of just playing something they would be a productive addition to. Some people are better at somethings than you, just like you are better than someone else at something else AND THAT IS FINE. Why not stick to things you're genuinely interested in and are good at?

Queue times are a result of the game spoonfeeding bad players exactly what they wanted for too long.

[TaxmanCDN]

I have all the tank classes at lvl 90, and I tank normals each week. Will I take one of my undergeared tanks into LFR? No way.

1. There's a good chance my co-tank will be a window licker that uses taunt as part of his rotation.
2. DPS will stand in bad and die, and then blame the tank.
3. I'll likely be out-dpsing and out-healing several members of the raid. My shoulders get tired of carrying people.

To be honest I have a tough time thinking of any incentive that could get me to tank LFR. Remember the rage when goodie bags were introduced for tanks for heroic dungeons? Those bags are pretty much useless, but DPS raged because they should be entitled to goodie bags too (because they're special snowflakes that should get everything that anyone else does).

Any extra incentive you try to give tanks/healers to que for LFR will just be met with a wall of rage, and will likely not impact que times for DPS much. My best advice is to just give up on LFR and do Flex, or suck it up and do some farming during your 45 min. que.

[Louis CK]

I'm so happy someone finally gets it. The problem isn't the lack of tanks and healers, but the quality of the damage dealers. As a tank or healer you have minimal say in how quick something gets downed, you could have the best gear ever solohealing a 25man raid but if the rest of the raid is filled with incompetent simpletons it's going to take you all day to finish something that should take 30 minutes. And that dumbass bag of crap you sometimes get doesn't come even close to compensating for the soulcrushing feeling you get every time you queue up into LFR.

Before 5.4 new players and alts atleast had to play through a few 5mans and the older tier raids to briefly get to know their class and spec making them be able to perform atleast somewhat okay when now they instantly jump into raids without any previous experience performing so unbelievably bad that it I sometimes have a hard time to even comprehend it. Arguably one of the worst moves they could have implemented from a "get people to get along better" -point of view.

It's like critical thinking has become less and less relevant in the gaming community during the past few years. Amazing performances of dedication and dexterity by groups of people (guilds) that in the past was admired and praised has somehow been turned into a negative and instead of people making a change within themselves they have turned to developers saying they feel very entitled which will not result in a positive change.

Its obvious that most people suck at this game on so many levels which would be fine if most of those players wouldn't be living in some sort of bubble being convinced that everyone else is wrong instead of just playing something they would be a productive addition to. Some people are better at somethings than you, just like you are better than someone else at something else AND THAT IS FINE. Why not stick to things you're genuinely interested in and are good at?

Queue times are a result of the game spoonfeeding bad players exactly what they wanted for too long.

Other tanks and healers are the problem just as much. It's not the people that are the problem, not their roles.

A douchebag is a douchebag no matter what set of buttons he's supposed to be pressing.

[Scinder]

Other tanks and healers are the problem just as much. It's not the people that are the problem, not their roles.

A douchebag is a douchebag no matter what set of buttons he's supposed to be pressing.

No they are not. Not even close. There are only two tanks in the raid and a handful of healers. The rest are the idiot DPS that are either unwilling or to incompetent with their class to perform remotely adequately.

Nine times out of ten, the problem is with the DPS. Occasionally you will get an inexperienced tank that has no idea when to tank swap or is just flat out terrible.

Tanks are fed up, healers are mostly fed up. Who does that leave? The DPS is who.

There's a huge problem when you have 5 stacks of Determination and the raid STILL can't beat the encounter. The tanks aren't dying and the healers aren't dying. It's the DPS. When I am feeling up for some punishment, I'll queue one of my dps characters into LFR but I have a three wipe rule. After that, I'm out. I'm close to trimming that rule to one or two wipes because I don't like having my personal time wasted by those that give zero fvcks about anyone else. All they want is their handout.

[Deleted]

No point in doing LFR anymore

[Louis CK]

No they are not. Not even close. There are only two tanks in the raid and a handful of healers. The rest are the idiot DPS that are either unwilling or to incompetent with their class to perform remotely adequately.

Nine times out of ten, the problem is with the DPS. Occasionally you will get an inexperienced tank that has no idea when to tank swap or is just flat out terrible.

Tanks are fed up, healers are mostly fed up. Who does that leave? The DPS is who.

There's a huge problem when you have 5 stacks of Determination and the raid STILL can't beat the encounter. The tanks aren't dying and the healers aren't dying. It's the DPS. When I am feeling up for some punishment, I'll queue one of my dps characters into LFR but I have a three wipe rule. After that, I'm out. I'm close to trimming that rule to one or two wipes because I don't like having my personal time wasted by those that give zero fvcks about anyone else. All they want is their handout.

At least half the DPS are bad in a given LFR run. At least half the Healers are bad in a given LFR run. At least half the Tanks are bad in a given LFR run.

Just because Healers and Tanks might not be as large a number in your run, doesn't mean they're not dumb by the same ratio as the DPS.

I've been in plenty of runs where only one tank knows wtf he's doing and makes up for the other, or screams at the other tank how bad he is until one of them leaves.

Sure, there are a lot of DPS in LFR and the majority of them are stupid. But the same holds true for Tanks and Healers as well.

Again, it's the people that are stupid, not the classes/roles.

[Seefer]

I am the same, I read dungeon journal which tells you things to look out for but the only way to learn the fight is to get on and do it. Watching a videos all well and good and I still do it so I have a better understand of what to expect. I have a healer alt which I have done more in soo than my tank. Its helpful as when I got in on my tank I know how the fight unfolds and just need to know the tanking side of it (how many stacks to taunt on where to position etc).

I told my raid lead right off..........I am not watching videos because I forget it within 5 minutes same with Dungeon Journal, you want me to learn it put me in there and I will have it memorized in 1 to 2 times doing it.

[Kazlehoff]

FYI for LFR tanks have just as long a queue as DPS.

if you want fast LFR queues, look to healers.

[Deleted]

More tank classes won't change that the people don't wanna tank.

I would personally tank if I could be a Warlock and tank, or a Mage, etc.

I don't think the proposed idea in the OP is good, but it would bring more tanks.

- - - Updated - - -

I told my raid lead right off..........I am not watching videos because I forget it within 5 minutes same with Dungeon Journal, you want me to learn it put me in there and I will have it memorized in 1 to 2 times doing it.

Off-topic, this is the perfect example of someone I don't want in my guild, someone who won't put the effort into learning a fight, but rather expects the raid to teach him.

[Strafir]

Other tanks and healers are the problem just as much. It's not the people that are the problem, not their roles.

A douchebag is a douchebag no matter what set of buttons he's supposed to be pressing.

You do have a point and awful inexperienced tanks do drive away the very few geared "boosting" dps just like awful dps drive away proper tanks and healers. But like Scinder mentioned, the difference is huge if you're a dps who can step up and deal 600k dps with 10 determination stacks or a tank/healer who can't do anything else than watch the berserk timer creep closer and closer.

How well a player tanks has a huge difference in how much damage a raid group can dish out (dark shaman positioning for example) but if the damage dealers aren't competent enough to take advantage of that you're just a brick wall who NPCs prefer killing.

Even the dedicated LFR heroes would realize that they either have to buck up or give up PVE completely if Flex and LFR would start sharing lockouts for drops. A 25man raid full of clowns yelling out profanities, oh the humanity...

[Nobleshield]

I told my raid lead right off..........I am not watching videos because I forget it within 5 minutes same with Dungeon Journal, you want me to learn it put me in there and I will have it memorized in 1 to 2 times doing it.

I don't necessarily agree with this either - you shouldn't ever go into a fight totally blind (outside of say if you are testing it on the PTR) but DJ/Videos should be supplementary. It shouldn't necessarily be required for LFR, or even for the typical (read: not "fast run") Flex raids. Normal and Heroic are IMO a different animal and you should make sure you are prepared. Nothing pisses me off like normal raiders just showing up and being expected to be told "stack on green; if you get <debuff> then run out" and do just that and only that, or have no idea about certain mechanics (perfect anecdote: last night we almost killed Galakras except when I said to stack up, people stacked up in a line and when I said if you get the fireball move out, people ran to the sides. IMO this is basic mechanics that people should know, not just expect to be told exactly what to do. And this was normal mode raiders in a almost all-guild 10M group, not a pug).

The problem in LFR in general is that people don't care to try or even know anything about the encounter because the pervasive mentality is that it's LFR so mechanics don't matter; the issue is that in most cases mechanics DO matter. LFR is much more forgiving but there are still berserk timers, and there can still be oneshot mechanics (see Durumu and Elegon, among others). If everyone puts forth minimal effort, you won't defeat the encounter, but because "it's just LFR" is the mindset it usually means that you get folks expecting zero mechanics or, worse, mechanics they can stand in and be healed through.

This isn't limited to DPS, but it's more common with DPS. Once in a while lately I've had quasi-AFK healers just standing there doing nothing, and my pet peeve is a co-tank who immediately says they've never been here (understandable) and have no idea of what they need to do (not so understandable). This is personally annoying because I don't queue as a tank unless I'm absolutely sure that I know what is going on (I didn't do LFR Durumu and co. for over a month because I wasn't sure what was actually going on in the fight and didn't want to cause a wipe); I don't mind explaining to a new tank but I would expect at least some tiny bit of looking at something before queuing, even if it's just the barest of knowledge (e.g. I don't really asking the second tank on Galakras "Do you want adds or towers?" and getting the reply be "no clue never been here b4"; I understand not watching a few videos or reading Icy Veins like I do, but don't go into something blind and expect to trial and error it).

[Normie]

Another issue is that now you can queue up as a healer or as a dps with a healer and get a good fast queue while setting yourself to get tank gear so there is no reason to tank LFR when you can get the rewards of tanking without the hassle.

Learning to tank is harder than getting tank gear (despite all the trolls saying "you can know everything there is to know about tanking in 30 minutes lol"), so if you are planning to tank real content, you might as well be tanking LFR too.