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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Mercos View Post
    This would be almost as big a waste of time as giving Alliance High Elves. You can already play humans in game. We just don't need all the same races on both sides. Since you can make characters from both factions on the same server now, this would be a monumental waste of time and perversion of the original Orcs vs Humans concept that the game was built on.
    but how would you feel about it, if it was possible or if it happened, would you like it, what would be your thoughts. You do realize that because humans are already on the horde as undead, and also the alterac nation joined the hord e in warcraft 2, it's quite clear that the orc vs human core won't be changed by this, I find it interesting when a coupel of guys use the point I made earlier, about forsaken being human as some sort of reason this can't be when it is one of the main reason that shows the idea of playing humans on the horde is not at all far-fetched or crippling to the huaman v orc core of the game - I guess they didn't really read the topic before responding, I'm guessing they jumped on the bandwagon of a guy who like them, hasn't looked at the topic.

    oh , as someone else also pointed out, wow has long since stopped being Orc vs Human...it is a orc vs human core, but it's not an Orc vs ALL Humans situation, whether you have forsaken (undead human or cured undead now living agian forsaken human), alterac nation living humans, or another group of humans join the horde, it won't change from being an Orc v human core.

    and something people are not taking into account, the developers can change their mind about the conflict and it's core, for whatever reason they choose. They like having two seprate factions with distinct races, and even if you're able to play living humans on the horde as forsaken, it would be for very good reason, and I don't supsect any other race would make the cross over. In fact in the lore, only Elves, humans and Panderan exist on both factions. Panderan they just added, but Elves have high elves on alliance and blood elves on horde, humans have the alliance humans on alliance, and the horde has had various groups, Alterac humans in WC2, and forsaken in WoW - should they make the human model playable on the horde as living forsaken humans and the blood elf model playable on the allinace as high elves, I reckon that would be the maximum they would go. There is no precedent in the lore for dwarves/night elves/draenei/worgen/gnome to be on the horde, nor a precedent for orcs/tauren/troll. there is a goblin precedent though. And that's not to say they can't create and advance the story. they can, but I don't suspect they will.

    For playbility, on both factions, humans are the strongest candidates because there is a very good gaming reason for that as well as it's a good story, for high elves - there really isn't except for more choice or because fans want it - and before people tear down that idea, they need to realize taht a lot of what they play in wow is theree because of choice or fans like it, so it's not beyond doubt if they wanted to. However I think that would be the extent of the shared faction races.
    Last edited by ravenmoon; 2013-10-17 at 08:12 PM.

  2. #102
    The Patient Lunzium's Avatar
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    I'd prolly quit for good

  3. #103
    First question: What is the reason for Humans to join the Horde?

    This needs to be answered, either as a gameplay reason or through a lore explanation, before I would be willing to accept the change. Right now, there is no reason why Humans would be even allowed into the Horde, it just doesn't make sense.

    Second question: Why would people want Humans to be playable on the Horde

    There's no real reason for it to happen.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by R40H View Post
    It would be interesting if faction wasn't tied to race. Maybe you could choose your own faction via reputations. Once you choose to drop your main faction, you're automatically neutral with each of the races. Then as you kill your own kind, you lose faction with one, and gain rep with the alliance. Furthermore, you could choose to join a neutral faction--let's say Argent Dawn--then any player who's friendly with Argent Dawn would in turn view you as friendly. Might be too confusing and difficult to manage for the devs, but it would be quite a wild card!
    many people have asked for that, and it does kinda make sesne, but I don't think blizz will do that, they like the distinctiveness of the horde and the alliance,, totally different races etc, it is one of two main reasons they're very relucctant to make high elves playable. I think they would share humans, because there is a good and necessary reason to do so, they did the same for Panderan because they felt they would be so desired, they didn't want to give only one faction. But I think that's the extent they will go - and I don't think it woudl be a case of humans and elves going neutral and then you choosing a faction even, it would more be a case like they'd provide an option to play forsaken human, an option to play high elf under the human or night elf race.. but I wrote about racial factions in another post, and if we were ever to see living oforsaken humans playable, it will not be as a new race, it would be as 1 racial faction amongst many, like dark iron dwarves under dwarves, wildhamer s under dwarves, mag'har orcs under Orc, dragonmaw orcs under orcs etc.

    this also keeps the two sides separte identities, human forsaken would be under forsaken with likely undead frorsaken and darkfallen (undead elves), whereas human will be the major racial group in the allinace while it is a sub group in the horde.

    it keeps the factions as distinct as you can - high elves playable on alliance and humans playable on horde as Raven has pointed out are already part of the game and as such we don't think of the elves or the humans as a neutral race like we think of the Panderan or even the goblin.


    and it's not to say blizzard won't do as you say, who knows with that company, they can do anything they want with their product, but i for one, i'm not sure I would like to share orcs with alliance, or trolls etc, and part of the extreme hate for high elves becoming playable on the alliance is because Belf horde players don't really wanna share them with the other side. Same goes for night elves - humans, no one seems to mind that much, but then why woudl they, it doesn't come mmore common than human, and since lal of us the players are humans, it does kinda make sense that we have access to the race on both sides.

    but it doesn't mean they have to play a major role on both sides and I think that's what some people aren't getting.

  5. #105
    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Raysz View Post
    It would make no sense at all. Wasn't Warcraft in its early stages mostly focussed 'Orcs vs Humans'? So from a lore standpoint it would be very weird.

    Gameplay as well. There are hardly any differences between factions outside of cosmetics, as it is.
    it was, but it's moved on,humans were in the horde in warcraft 2, alterac nation partnered wtih the horde, also in wow, the forsaken are humans remember, undead humans, and they've been in the horde since wow - so it won't be weird at all. Remember we're not talking a major faction of humans, just part of the forsaken becoming living flesh, so we can have the model and a living humna element there

    from a gameplay point to it's improtant, becuase humans are the reason the alliance keeps having many more numbers despite all the improvements on the horde. I'm sure blizzard don't want to keep having to pump the horde and ditch the alliance just to keep players picking it. Humans will equalise this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Compstance View Post
    I try my hardest to pretend humans don't exist in this game as it is. I don't want to be forced to see them on my faction (they're one of the main reasons I don't play Alliance, not kidding).

    The males have this perpetual look on their face like they just forgot something.
    witht he human models like they are, I have felt the same way, but models aside, what do you feel about this? Remember new models are incoming, and the new ones might actually be nice to look at and quite cool

  6. #106
    Deleted
    I'd say that the game is digging its own grave.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    First question: What is the reason for Humans to join the Horde?

    This needs to be answered, either as a gameplay reason or through a lore explanation, before I would be willing to accept the change. Right now, there is no reason why Humans would be even allowed into the Horde, it just doesn't make sense.

    Second question: Why would people want Humans to be playable on the Horde

    There's no real reason for it to happen.
    There is no reason why alliance humans would even be allowed to join the horde - unless blizz create one off course. Which is why it is not alliance humans that will become the playable humans, it would be some of the forsaken undead humans, that somehow get cured (the how will be told) -that angle does not compromise the alliance at all, and doesn't call into question the loyalty of the horde humans (again unless blizzard write it to do so,which they can, but if they do, they'll have a reason , we may not always spot immediately - they always have some end game in mind when they make huge changes.)


    as for gameplay reasons, it's to plug the deficit between the two sides, humans are giving the alliance a huge adavantage, because we're humans, players most often rolll humans (the highest played race in the game from it's start to now) furthermore, you can't write a good conflict story between the two factions that you can't guess the winner unless humans are on both side. If the new movie for example focuses on the conflict between the horde and the alliance rather than a common threat, guess what, the humans will come out on top, because your audience is all human and largely non-gamers too, and though people like playing other races, the majority pick an avatar in their likeness, which means humans.

    this is creating an imbalance. To attract more players to the horde, for even gameplay, keep horde numbers up, blizzard have given and kept the horde with superior racials, written better plots, more exciting storylines, nerfed really popular races like the night elves HARD , raised the orc profile considerably - i mean Thrall the green Messiah - tons more horde books, cooler horde profiles/stuff - and whiles more play the horde, the balance is still in favour of the alliance (60-40% on some surveys, 55-45% on others alliance favoured) - people relate more to human and if they don't get the human option, they often tend to choose the closest thing, Blood elves, which is why blood elvs are nearly twice the number of horde players than the next highest played horde race , and even they, for al their superior looks, superior animations are still not as highly played as the old, goofy, pixelated and rather ugly looking human models. and more times than not, they'll just pick alliance and human rather than horde. Not to mention, when there first character is human, it's likekly they'll stay in the faction too..unless they reach und game (which many do not, and realize the other faction fares a lot better for the competitive stuff and so switch or quit) - blizz is not doing themselves any favours by keeping the factions imbalnaced - i nkow people who have rather quit than switch to horde, becasue their competitive end game wdid not favour what htey wanted to play. it's tempted blizz to remove racials altogether - but racial do give flavou which many people like, and racials are one of the things keeping players horde, remove that and you risk an alliance over-run again and on it goes, imbalanced, horde centric, lopsided

    despite all that.. do you not see a problem here - half the people that did not respond in favour of human horde did so because they don't want that goofy model, appearance make a difference. what happens when blizzard fixes the model? do they sabotage it to discourage more peeps from rolling human and alliance? or will that swing the penduulum further astray?

    There is aproblem in wow, whichever faction does not have humans is at a severe disadvantage. in the RTS it didn't really matter because you played both sides anyway, and we were all fine with being human, we loved it, but we never had to choose, sure we were sympathetic with the orcs in WC3, even liked them..but when we had to choose, when wow started, human was the most popular, moreso than the "then very awesome Night elves - not awesome at all now".

    you getting why? anyway, I invite you to the other topic I went into extensive detail on the gameplay reasons, dissected, cross-examined, fleshed out here:

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...2#post22860002

    There is a far more compelling reason, than just a "cool" story development to have humans playable on the horde, but, it can be quite a cool story development too, and if written as forsaken human or at least a group of humans not tied to the alliance, it won't destroy the orc v human core of the warcraft series -- unless the devleopers want to. Remember that the forsaken (who are undead humans) joining the horde ddidn't destroy the corc v human core. Alterac nation of humans siding with the horde in WC2, didn't destroy the human vs orc core. And neither will playable living forsaken humans as a sub-faction of forsaken destroy the core, it won't, but it would certainly fix the many balance issues, the lopsided developement, create are far more compelling conflict you will never bea able to tell who'd win and would properly divide your adoring fans equally.
    Last edited by ravenmoon; 2013-10-17 at 08:52 PM.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    but how would you feel about it, if it was possible or if it happened, would you like it, what would be your thoughts. You do realize that because humans are already on the horde as undead, and also the alterac nation joined the hord e in warcraft 2, it's quite clear that the orc vs human core won't be changed by this, I find it interesting when a coupel of guys use the point I made earlier, about forsaken being human as some sort of reason this can't be when it is one of the main reason that shows the idea of playing humans on the horde is not at all far-fetched or crippling to the huaman v orc core of the game - I guess they didn't really read the topic before responding, I'm guessing they jumped on the bandwagon of a guy who like them, hasn't looked at the topic.

    oh , as someone else also pointed out, wow has long since stopped being Orc vs Human...it is a orc vs human core, but it's not an Orc vs ALL Humans situation, whether you have forsaken (undead human or cured undead now living agian forsaken human), alterac nation living humans, or another group of humans join the horde, it won't change from being an Orc v human core.

    and something people are not taking into account, the developers can change their mind about the conflict and it's core, for whatever reason they choose. They like having two seprate factions with distinct races, and even if you're able to play living humans on the horde as forsaken, it would be for very good reason, and I don't supsect any other race would make the cross over. In fact in the lore, only Elves, humans and Panderan exist on both factions. Panderan they just added, but Elves have high elves on alliance and blood elves on horde, humans have the alliance humans on alliance, and the horde has had various groups, Alterac humans in WC2, and forsaken in WoW - should they make the human model playable on the horde as living forsaken humans and the blood elf model playable on the allinace as high elves, I reckon that would be the maximum they would go. There is no precedent in the lore for dwarves/night elves/draenei/worgen/gnome to be on the horde, nor a precedent for orcs/tauren/troll. there is a goblin precedent though. And that's not to say they can't create and advance the story. they can, but I don't suspect they will.

    For playbility, on both factions, humans are the strongest candidates because there is a very good gaming reason for that as well as it's a good story, for high elves - there really isn't except for more choice or because fans want it - and before people tear down that idea, they need to realize taht a lot of what they play in wow is theree because of choice or fans like it, so it's not beyond doubt if they wanted to. However I think that would be the extent of the shared faction races.
    How would I feel about it? I would think it is a terrible idea, and a waste of time. If they are going to add another race to Horde, I would prefer a new race. If I want to play human, I'll play Alliance.

  9. #109
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Alltat View Post
    Makes sense lore-wise, but not when it comes to gameplay. Why give the most iconic race from one faction to the other?
    Because of "every man for himself"
    On topic i also dint see how humans can stay close to any orc

  10. #110
    In a way, they could do it.
    From what I read, the Vrykul were the first of the Human race, meaning that the Alliance Humans are descended from them.
    I could see the Vrykul joining the Horde, they are very similar to Orcs in a way, Brutal and Bloodthirsty. Heck, even in WoW Model Viewers, most Gear and Weapons will fit onto them.

    Last edited by Decisive The Hallowed; 2013-10-18 at 01:50 AM.

  11. #111
    Eventually, someone will work out a Forsaken cure and there will be horde alligned humans.

    My preference would be that Sylvanas would keep the cure locked up, and only use it very well trained and loyal agents that would be used to infiltrate the alliance in order to retake certain alliance holdings through political means and to stir up unrest.

    This would make horde humans infiltrators assassins and spies. It would also give an awesome opportunity for cool starting quests of going into alliance cities to kill off various characters.

    Ideally, the cure would go too far and make them doppelgangers rather than humans, allowing them to look like other races as a racial ability.

  12. #112
    Herald of the Titans Abstieg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrugner View Post
    Eventually, someone will work out a Forsaken cure and there will be horde alligned humans.

    My preference would be that Sylvanas would keep the cure locked up, and only use it very well trained and loyal agents that would be used to infiltrate the alliance in order to retake certain alliance holdings through political means and to stir up unrest.

    This would make horde humans infiltrators assassins and spies. It would also give an awesome opportunity for cool starting quests of going into alliance cities to kill off various characters.

    Ideally, the cure would go too far and make them doppelgangers rather than humans, allowing them to look like other races as a racial ability.
    There is no cure for undeath.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Abstieg View Post
    There is no cure for undeath.
    Bridenbraid was cured, though I agree that those circumstances are pretty extraordinary... and he didn't survive. Which is why a half cure or failed cure would work a little better.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Abstieg View Post
    There is no cure for undeath.
    until there is a cure for undeath.
    Quote Originally Posted by hrugner View Post
    Eventually, someone will work out a Forsaken cure and there will be horde alligned humans.

    My preference would be that Sylvanas would keep the cure locked up, and only use it very well trained and loyal agents that would be used to infiltrate the alliance in order to retake certain alliance holdings through political means and to stir up unrest.
    agreed, tbh, I have always thought one would come eventually, it was only a matter of time. it's one of those impossible things, just like undeath in the first place, it's impossible until it happens. We all know undeath was going to be solvabele, although I would never have expected a plot that had only part of the undead forsaken restored. Off course it has to be only some, b/c we still want undead to be playable. which brings me to...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mercos View Post
    How would I feel about it? I would think it is a terrible idea, and a waste of time. If they are going to add another race to Horde, I would prefer a new race. If I want to play human, I'll play Alliance.
    which is why I would never add them as a new race, no, the only way I see them playable is as a sub race, or racial faction, one of many. Mace did a good presentation in:
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...xpansion/page1
    about this, on how sub-races or racial factions like Mag'har orcs, dragonmaw orcs, dark iron dwarves, wildhammers, amani trolls etc, would be perfect to add this expansion because they're re-doing all the old models, and each race in the game does have several racial factions that are only slight cosmetic differences like skin tone or eye colour or tribal markings. So every time you introduce a new race model, you introduce all the races factions you're going to have playable.

    In the case of forsaken, you would have 3 racial factions of forsaken, undead forsaken, then introduce living human forsaken and darkfallen (undead forsaken elves). Another example would be Orcs would have 3 racial factions also. Normal orcs, mag'har orcs and dragonmaw orcs. You won't introduce human forsaken as a new race, because it isn't really, you're using the new human model made accessible on the horde, all the racial factions use slight superficial variations of the new race model. e.g. mag'har orcs would use the new orc model but with brown skin tones instead of green and an extra tribal feature option.

    forsaken humans would use the new human model, and possible add a customisable feature like undeath partially healed

  15. #115
    Deleted
    After the 4th War? It was even doubtful that the Horde would stay together, much less being able to attract splitters from the Alliance.

  16. #116
    Elemental Lord Duronos's Avatar
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    Humans on the Horde side? GET THAT SHIT OUT OF HERE! No but really, never ever suggest this again.
    Hey everyone

  17. #117
    The Lightbringer Agoonga's Avatar
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    Just give the Horde Vrykul, they are like Humans, but bigger and more savage.

  18. #118
    I'd quit for good and burn down the blizzard HQ (okay maybe not that last part). Sounds like the worst possible thing, I cringe at the thought. Isn't it bad enough already that the horde have gained two former alliance capitals?

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Aang View Post
    Humans on the Horde side? GET THAT SHIT OUT OF HERE! No but really, never ever suggest this again.
    Don't ever go to Bogpaddle. Seeing the orcs and humans partying together there might make you pass out.

  20. #120
    You already have the best kind of humans... dead ones.

    Personally, though, I would like to see more human factions... or better yet... DEFINE the ones that already exist.

    Let's see some flesh on the Syndicate... Ravenholdt... Wastewalkers.. etc.

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