Blackface (and other cultural costumes) -- Insensitive Or Not?

[lolo855]

We have the exact same problem in Belgium and the Netherlands right now with Black pete ( the dude who helps "sinterklaas" carrying his gifts for the children )

They call it racist because he is Black and carrying gifts and it reminds them of slavery, the most funny part is that he isn't even black, his face is black because of the soot crawling trough the chimney's to give the children their gifts, some people depict him as being black in the older versions of the legend.

But even then I don't see how that is supposed to be racist, he is a friend for child's and a personal assistant to 'sinterklaas'. It's more of an honor then anything else.

But now some lady from the US wants it to be banned in Europe because it's supposed to be racist ...

Should we also ban the little elf's helping santa because it it's 'racist' against dwarfs ?

Some people are just too damn stupid and use racism as an excuse for anything.

[Tinykong]

Can you people read?

What do you mean..."you people?"

[Paladin885]

But was it real racism, or just the kind of racism that other people see as racism?

thats the problem with racism its all perception and subjective at best which makes it hard to label things.

when someone is subject to abuse or prejudice they become very sensitive to it and almost ignorant or bias towards that thought. Look at our modern history and take notice. How many "black comedies" are written by white men/women? if they do they're racist and any black actor who takes the part in the film is an uncle tom.

But thats just one example, are are many arguments that are one sided in the racism debate, such as blackface being taboo but whiteface being perfectly fine and not racist by any means. These arguments are where I stand on the debate. If one side of the racist spectrum is not ok, then neither side is... but most people don't understand that. Some people think its political justice that they should be allowed to "turn the tides" on white people.

[Gothicshark]

For pete's sake. LOL! Can you people read? Where did (going by your accusatory tone) I co-sign on people being ignorant towards someone due to history? Me saying that his examples are not comparable isn't green-lighting their behavior.

here is a small list:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post23105611
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...0#post23104910
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...0#post23104790
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...2#post23101952
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...9#post22510459
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...6#post22484716
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post22484211


You do it possibly with out noticing it. But these are all racist posts.

[Booshman]

Booshman, you've been around these threads for a couple of years now, from the things you have said in the past I am sure you are of a highly populous minority group in the USA, you have been the subject of racism, and you clearly dislike a whole swath of different types of white Americans based purely on the fact they are White and come from rural parts of the nation. This would be prejudice. Which is the same as racism. But I am not going to take the high road here being an Urban Semitic queen. Mainly because those people scare the shit out of me. You may not think your prejudice is rascism, and I'm not going to deny being prejudice against those same people, and it might be a bit hypocritical, but they brag about gun ownership and advocate killing blacks, gays and Jews. I'm 2 out of the 3 so yah dislike them.

No, I just dislike a particular group of people. Stupid people in general. Since this website is populated by mostly white American males, it may seem like "I hate white people." or some such whiny and defeatist (even though they're still better off than everyone else) nonsense. But that's the furthest thing from the truth. It all comes down to demographics. If this site was mostly non-white and I was a regular poster, I'd be just as much of a "wet blanket" then, too.

Have I been the subject of racism? Well yeah. But that's neither here nor there. Because I haven't given up on white people, as I have faith in their ability to learn and evolve. If I did give up, then I wouldn't take time out and make posts to show them the error of their ways.

Am I harsh in my tone? Yup. But that shouldn't matter, as the common white spouted slogan on these boards when non-white males point out racism/oppression is, "Life is tough!" Surely there's no double standard here, right?

[Shudder]

What are you talking about? No one has even bothered to respond with merit to anything I've said, for one. Two, no one has said anything of worth in response to me. I've typed the same thing like 10 times and every single person who has "replied" has ignored or outright tried to deflect the fact that Blackface is mired in a history of depicting African-Americans in an extremely offensive manner. I mean, I can go through every post one by one and outline everyone's logical fallacy and write out a meaningful response to everyone, but it's blatantly obvious here that no one is interested in serious discussion on the topic. And I have absolutely no interest in spending 20+ pages banging my head against a wall talking to someone(s) who is probably an young middle class white male who grew up in an all-white suburb who has no historical understanding of racism in the United States, let alone the cultural significance of something like Blackface or can formulate a cogent basis for rebuttal but does have a lot of time on his hands trying to start internet flame wars.

No thanks. Opportunity cost knocks, and right now I'm going to read a book and go to bed.

Nobody is engaging you in debate because you're generalizing and quite frankly are being rude and insulting. If you learn how to debate civilly maybe people will take you seriously.

[Payday]

thats the problem with racism its all perception and subjective at best which makes it hard to label things.

Yes, this was my point to her. If you want to take the Tinykong route and just be immune to all forms of ridicule if it's said "in jest" then that's fine, you can kid yourself all day. But it's one or the other..

[Booshman]

here is a small list:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post23105611
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...0#post23104910
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...0#post23104790
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...2#post23101952
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...9#post22510459
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...6#post22484716
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post22484211


You do it possibly with out noticing it. But these are all racist posts.

Hah! You were wrong with the very first example you gave. Anyone who isn't prone to knee-jerking would have noticed that I was talking about a small sub-sect of the population. I even mentioned that it's the vast majority who are against the nonsense that I was condemning. Those aren't racist posts, just because I say "white". You're reaching pretty badly now.

[Gothicshark]

thats the problem with racism its all perception and subjective at best which makes it hard to label things.

when someone is subject to abuse or prejudice they become very sensitive to it and almost ignorant or bias towards that thought. Look at our modern history and take notice. How many "black comedies" are written by white men/women? if they do they're racist and any black actor who takes the part in the film is an uncle tom.

But thats just one example, are are many arguments that are one sided in the racism debate, such as blackface being taboo but whiteface being perfectly fine and not racist by any means. These arguments are where I stand on the debate. If one side of the racist spectrum is not ok, then neither side is... but most people don't understand that. Some people think its political justice that they should be allowed to "turn the tides" on white people.

1. Hollywood, the film is made for the black community it is a black film even if they hire a white Jewish person to write the script. Often the humor will be racist against white people since that is the only currently acceptable type of racism in American films, and frankly that type of racism sells.

2. Blackface was originally created as a means to have a black stereotype in a stage play when having a black actor was taboo and illegal. Some blackface actors where actually light skinned black people. The art method is entirely designed to be racism.

3. Any rascism is bad, but as long as groups like the Tea Party have power in America, anti white racism will be acceptable.

4. (unrelated to the above post) Earlier someone mentioned Black Peter. The character is not a racist character if the representation is a guy with shoot from chimneys, however more often then not Black peter is represented as in the same method as Blackface which is racist.

[Xanjori]

Because I haven't given up on white people, as I have faith in their ability to learn and evolve.

Possibly the most racist thing I've read on this board. Ladies and gentlemen you heard it here first, white people are a special race of human, entirely different to all other ethnicities.

No Booshman, you don't come across as a bigot that loves to stereotype at all, you're clearly a sane and rational human being doing his bit for the human race. Then cry when "those people" "misinterpret" what you are saying. Two days in a row getting called out as a racist? What a coincidence.

Oh and just FYI, the majority of this board isnt even American. I figured you should know that so you can represent actual facts next time you want to stereotype people.

[Deleted]

Yes, this was my point to her. If you want to take the Tinykong route and just be immune to all forms of ridicule if it's said "in jest" then that's fine, you can kid yourself all day. But it's one or the other..

Someone painting their face black isn't racism.

[Gothicshark]

Hah! You were wrong with the very first example you gave. Anyone who isn't prone to knee-jerking would have noticed that I was talking about a sub-sect of the population. I even mentioned that it's the vast majority who are against the nonsense that I was condemning. Those aren't racist posts, just because I say "white". You're reaching pretty badly now.

I was only bothered to reach out to the last couple of pages, of your posts, and only grabbed based on headlines. the reality is after 2 years of talking with you the theme and tone is evident.

Just like everyone should have some clue as to what I'm like.

[Booshman]

Possibly the most racist thing I've read on this board. Ladies and gentlemen you heard it here first, white people are a special race of human, entirely different to all other ethnicities.

No Booshman, you don't come across as a bigot that loves to stereotype at all, you're clearly a sane and rational human being doing his bit for the human race. Then cry when "those people" "misinterpret" what you are saying. Two days in a row getting called out as a racist? What a coincidence.

Oh and just FYI, the majority of this board isnt even American. I figured you should know that so you can represent actual facts next time you want to stereotype people.

Yeah, let's not quote the entire passage so we can change the context to whatever we want.

[Gothicshark]

No, I just dislike a particular group of people. Stupid people in general. Since this website is populated by mostly white American males, it may seem like "I hate white people." or some such whiny and defeatist (even though they're still better off than everyone else) nonsense. But that's the furthest thing from the truth. It all comes down to demographics. If this site was mostly non-white and I was a regular poster, I'd be just as much of a "wet blanket" then, too.

Have I been the subject of racism? Well yeah. But that's neither here nor there. Because I haven't given up on white people, as I have faith in their ability to learn and evolve. If I did give up, then I wouldn't take time out and make posts to show them the error of their ways.

Am I harsh in my tone? Yup. But that shouldn't matter, as the common white spouted slogan on these boards when non-white males point out racism/oppression is, "Life is tough!" Surely there's no double standard here, right?

I have given up on Rural Christian Americans in general. I'll be quiet open I wish Texas left the union and took them all with them.

[Booshman]

I was only bothered to reach out to the last couple of pages, of your posts, and only grabbed based on headlines. the reality is after 2 years of talking with you the theme and tone is evident.

Just like everyone should have some clue as to what I'm like.

It's "evident to you", but that doesn't make your conclusion a correct one, just because you say it over and over again.

[Xanjori]

Yeah, let's not quote the entire passage so we can change the context to whatever we want.

The context doesnt change at all? Can you even read your own writing? I've heard some special arguments from you lately but that really takes the biscuit. Why do you get so upset when called out on your own hypocritical nature? After all all we're doing here is helping people see the error of their ways. Just learn from your mistakes Booshman, I have faith in you as a person to do that.

[Booshman]

I have given up on Rural Christian Americans in general. I'll be quiet open I wish Texas left the union and took them all with them.

See? I'm not that easily swayed. Which is why it's sometimes good to be stubborn.

- - - Updated - - -

The context doesnt change at all? Can you even read your own writing? I've heard some special arguments from you lately but that really takes the biscuit. Why do you get so upset when called out on your own hypocritical nature? After all all we're doing here is helping people see the error of their ways. Just learn from your mistakes Booshman, I have faith in you as a person to do that.

Oh, I'm not upset. I'm just a sticker for accuracy and debating in good faith. Neither of which you are capable of; as you have demonstrated in the past.

[Deleted]

It's "evident to you", but that doesn't make your conclusion a correct one, just because you say it over and over again.

From what I've read now, searching your posts then I can quite confidently say that you indeed are a racist. Your attitude toward white people is appalling.

[Gothicshark]

Yeah, let's not quote the entire passage so we can change the context to whatever we want.

No it was really a racist comment. Just switch the words around and you'll see.

No, I just dislike a particular group of people. Stupid people in general. Since this website is populated by mostly white American males, it may seem like "I hate white people." or some such whiny and defeatist (even though they're still better off than everyone else) nonsense. But that's the furthest thing from the truth. It all comes down to demographics. If this site was mostly non-white and I was a regular poster, I'd be just as much of a "wet blanket" then, too.

Have I been the subject of racism? Well yeah. But that's neither here nor there. Because I haven't given up on white people, as I have faith in their ability to learn and evolve. If I did give up, then I wouldn't take time out and make posts to show them the error of their ways.

Am I harsh in my tone? Yup. But that shouldn't matter, as the common white spouted slogan on these boards when non-white males point out racism/oppression is, "Life is tough!" Surely there's no double standard here, right?

No, I just dislike a particular group of people. Stupid people in general. Since this website is populated by mostly Black American females, it may seem like "I hate black people." or some such whiny and defeatist (even though they're still better off than everyone else) nonsense. But that's the furthest thing from the truth. It all comes down to demographics. If this site was mostly non-black and I was a regular poster, I'd be just as much of a "wet blanket" then, too.

Have I been the subject of racism? Well yeah. But that's neither here nor there. Because I haven't given up on black people, as I have faith in their ability to learn and evolve. If I did give up, then I wouldn't take time out and make posts to show them the error of their ways.

Am I harsh in my tone? Yup. But that shouldn't matter, as the common black spouted slogan on these boards when non-black females point out racism/oppression is, "Life is tough!" Surely there's no double standard here, right?

Notice when the words White are switch with black, and males to female. It becomes racist and sexist.

[Xanjori]

Oh, I'm not upset. I'm just a sticker for accuracy and debating in good faith. Neither of which you are capable of; as you have demonstrated in the past.

Accuracy? Like your claim the majority of this forum is white American males? Debating in good faith, so segregating people based on skin colour rather than their deeds? Oh Booshman, you so funny.