November 4 - Even More LFR Nerfs

[Otimus]

I tried Flex, but I gave up when I saw the "achievements and 540-gear!"

The question is: To what audience do you want to cater and how 'low' do you want to go with that?
Some people would only be happy when they enter the instance, every boss drops dead and they get the loot.
But is that the audience that they should cater to? And what will that do to the LFR-crowd who actually enjoy the fights?

By lowering their standards all the time, players also lower their own standards.
It's a downward spiral!
"The dps-requirement is harsh".
-"We balanced it around people in greenies! But we'll change it!"
"Yeah, I really don't like to get out of fire."
-"Uhm.. Okay, we'll lower the damage."
"I also don't like to stack on the tank."
What do you expect them to say? "Please wait, we'll remove the mechanic?"

At what point does the game stop being a game because you removed everything that made it a game?

It depends on which group pays you the most. Wanting otherwise is kind of silly. It's not like Blizzard has artistic integrity or anything.

[Granyala]

I tried Flex, but I gave up when I saw the "achievements and 540-gear!"

Heheh... people screamed that they wanted PUGs back. I guess most had forgotten about these ridiculous entry requirements.

At what point does the game stop being a game because you removed everything that made it a game?

From the perspective of a raider, LFR is already like beating a training dummy for 10 minutes to get a chance at loot.
If they nerf it even further makes absolutely 0 difference at all.

I run LFR for two reasons for fun/gear

It boggles my mind, as to how people can have fun in there. For me it's so hard to not fall asleep. :S
Esp. as a healer... ugh.

[Deleted]

I tried Flex, but I gave up when I saw the "achievements and 540-gear!"

The question is: To what audience do you want to cater and how 'low' do you want to go with that?
Some people would only be happy when they enter the instance, every boss drops dead and they get the loot.
But is that the audience that they should cater to? And what will that do to the LFR-crowd who actually enjoy the fights?

By lowering their standards all the time, players also lower their own standards.
It's a downward spiral!
"The dps-requirement is harsh".
-"We balanced it around people in greenies! But we'll change it!"
"Yeah, I really don't like to get out of fire."
-"Uhm.. Okay, we'll lower the damage."
"I also don't like to stack on the tank."
What do you expect them to say? "Please wait, we'll remove the mechanic?"

At what point does the game stop being a game because you removed everything that made it a game?

What are you talking about?

LFR is there, so is flexi, normal and Heroic. Nothing is taken away by having LFR, even a LFR which is incredibly dumbed down.

All that happens is that blizzard wont lose as many subs, and can therefore carry on pumping out high quality raid content with more than 5 bosses in new freshly designed zones and not reskinned levelling content areas.

People were never going to learn, never going to become raiders. Just let blizzard take their money and enjoy your enhanced raid content on the back of it.

[Felarion]

Honestly i don't care about lfr but i can imagine not every lfr players know how to play and that's why they nerf it even more to give other players ability to carry nubz

[Firebert]

Because making it impossible to wipe is, to many people including me, seen as worse as a mass exodus from WoW.

Well, wiping is, to many people including me, too big a stick to be hit with whilst using LFR.

I see LFR as a mode where people who have no time or aren't really good at this game have a good chance of killing the boss and obtaining gear.
I really don't want it to be a mode where people queue just so they can go afk without any chance of wiping since the fights are balanced around 5 people not being braindead.

I don't see you making the distinction between "aren't really good at this game" and "braindead". Currently it is balanced for the former. When bosses have the same amount of HP as a 5-man Heroic boss then I'll believe you that they are balancing for the latter.

[Granyala]

People were never going to learn, never going to become raiders. Just let blizzard take their money and enjoy your enhanced raid content on the back of it.

I rarely agree with Injin, but these are words of wisdom.
Let the bads have their fun and their epics.

[Firebert]

I tried Flex, but I gave up when I saw the "achievements and 540-gear!"

I get Russians and 530 gear instead. :3

[Aeluron Lightsong]

They don't need more nerfs but what can you do. I'd take LFR nerfs then Flex,Normal and Heroic nerfs! Silver lining folks!

[Marema]

Personally I could care less. I finally got into a Flex and Normal guild so they can nerf LFR to the ground. Doesn't affect my game experience one iota. Good thing I don't worry about what the remaining millions of other players are doing.

[khalltusk]

Heheh... people screamed that they wanted PUGs back. I guess most had forgotten about these ridiculous entry requirements.


From the perspective of a raider, LFR is already like beating a training dummy for 10 minutes to get a chance at loot.
If they nerf it even further makes absolutely 0 difference at all.


It boggles my mind, as to how people can have fun in there. For me it's so hard to not fall asleep. :S
Esp. as a healer... ugh.

It can be what you make of it. I go in with 4 people, 1 of them is the guy who plays a DK tank sometimes im on my dk tank or shaman healer my brother on his rogue/pala and a hunter friend of ours and a fellow guildy. We have a laugh I know its mostly easy stuff and its a reason I want to do flex in the near future for a bit more of a challenge (and those heirlooms ^_^).

[Deleted]

Aslong as everyone is happy at the end of the day.
Tho they should add some auto kick for those afking losers.

[Granyala]

It can be what you make of it.

Well... Whirl-gripping people as a shadowpriest on Tay'ak was fun.

But once you know how normal / heroic raiding feels like, it's hard to not sense the absurdity of LFR.
I think you'll have a lot of fun in Flex.

[Synstir]

I tried Flex, but I gave up when I saw the "achievements and 540-gear!"

The question is: To what audience do you want to cater and how 'low' do you want to go with that?
Some people would only be happy when they enter the instance, every boss drops dead and they get the loot.
But is that the audience that they should cater to? And what will that do to the LFR-crowd who actually enjoy the fights?

By lowering their standards all the time, players also lower their own standards.
It's a downward spiral!
"The dps-requirement is harsh".
-"We balanced it around people in greenies! But we'll change it!"
"Yeah, I really don't like to get out of fire."
-"Uhm.. Okay, we'll lower the damage."
"I also don't like to stack on the tank."
What do you expect them to say? "Please wait, we'll remove the mechanic?"

At what point does the game stop being a game because you removed everything that made it a game?

this was about lfr, right? and not the game!
The game also has flex, normal and heroic.

lfr is meant for a certain kind of player, not for those who enjoy flex, n or hc more... they can come, zerg through it, get their drops and proceed to their content.
I really see no reason to complain about it.. it is there for a reason and for a certain playerbase......

- - - Updated - - -

Personally I could care less. I finally got into a Flex and Normal guild so they can nerf LFR to the ground. Doesn't affect my game experience one iota. Good thing I don't worry about what the remaining millions of other players are doing.

This is exactly what i mean!

[brirrspliff]

I for one am happy it's easier to just run through the SoO LFRs on my numerous alts instead of wiping 10 times on Garrosh because nobody seems to know what to do.

that's exactly what the OP is criticizing. "nobody seems to know what to do" should mean "nobody gets to see loot until they KNOW what to do". instead it becomes more and more "even if nobody knows what to do, they should be presented with loot". that's bad for the game, and it's bad for the players - even if they don't know this themselves.

it should be possible to NOT get loot if your group is just too bad. but i guess that concept doesn't fit into today's carebear games anymore.

[Granyala]

I really see no reason to complain about it..

I have only one reason, and that would be the replacing of 5mans.
I had far more fun with all my various alts in previous xpacs while doing 5mans. Esp. Cata & TBC where they were a little challenging.
Now I level some of my alts and then they do almost nothing because LFR is so extremely unfun.

So basically, I log on to raid or prep my Priestess and after that I X wow again, because there is noting fun to do.

It really sucks, after five years of hardcore raiding I cannot get a pug because I don't have the achievement and don't overgear the instance.

I feel you, man. That does suck.

but I draw the line at the 'big three'.

To be fair: 90% of the LFR guys can do those, if you ask nicely.
Blizzard just has to see to it that 2-3 trolls can't fuck up the entire encounter because they refuse to group up.

[Osmeric]

I'm wondering how many LFR players are getting close to, or have reached, the conclusion that this isn't fun and that their expansion is now done.

Blizzard better hope they're nerfing this fast enough to stay ahead of the death spiral.

[Deleted]

Why?? They are not toxic players (not all maybe, there are more % of toxic players in high elite), they just play the game at minimum level required. The game itself give this options, If they took that option, it's not their fault.

They are toxic if everyone else is putting in an effort to kill the boss and get rewarded for it, but the bad players cause them to wipe. That just lets to frustration on both sides. The bad players are better off doing content they're actually capable of, or watching a Youtube video.

- - - Updated - - -

Flex is awesome. It finally allows the lower end of the raid crowd to act like elitists. "LFR ? Pff real skilled people do flex. You know, REAL raiding".

And yet its the LFR defenders who say LFR is literally designed for bad players who don't want to get better. Its not elitist to just recruit a team of players who are capable of beating Flex bosses, its just common sense. Like if you were picking players for a weekend bowling league you'd pick people who can get more hits than gutter balls.

[Osmeric]

Why?? They are not toxic players (not all maybe, there are more % of toxic players in high elite), they just play the game at minimum level required. The game itself give this options, If they took that option, it's not their fault.

If someone goes into LFR and grossly underperforms, they are poisoning the experience of everyone else. So, yes, they are "toxic".

[Synstir]

I have only one reason, and that would be the replacing of 5mans.
I had far more fun with all my various alts in previous xpacs while doing 5mans. Esp. Cata & TBC where they were a little challenging.
Now I level some of my alts and then they do almost nothing because LFR is so extremely unfun.

So basically, I log on to raid or prep my Priestess and after that I X wow again, because there is noting fun to do.

Well then you should complain about missing 5 mans, right?
Now because those are missing, you think you need to do lfr, which is not intended for a player with your skills. This will not be fun for you, agreed.

But then still, if blizz decided to take out 5 mans, you should not complain about some other content which is not intended to be 5 mans; sure, it is intended as catch up for gear.... and that is maybe the issue. So wow needs a different catch up mechanism?

[Deleted]

Then LFR stops being used and all the lower skilled players quit which hits Blizzard's bottom line. That's effectively what Blizzard are scared of.

Any metric is flawed. "Good play" is arbitrary.

Doing lots of dps/hps and not dying as much as the rest of the raid is a pretty good metric to start with.