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  1. #41
    Light comes from darkness shise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TyrantWave View Post
    Not at all. The LK, and Illidan, were both *horribly* told villians in WoW, and I just don't care for either of them.

    LK's main issue is he just felt like some saturday morning cartoon villian. Showing up, "I'm going to stop you with my minions! Ahahahah!" and then we kill his minions constantly. It really diminished the final fight.
    No warcraft fan would say such things about Ilidan.

  2. #42
    The problem lies in the concept of a mmo game itself. Continueing stories told from rts games just doesn't work when you do that in mmos. hint: we must win, our races must survive or they have no game left for us to pay and play.

  3. #43
    Deleted
    I loved WotLK, and I have to agree that it was by far my favourite expansion. While progressing through both Outland and Northrend it felt like we were actually fighting through though enemy lands, through lands that they controlled and ruled over.

    Cataclysm at least had some good points. I felt the questing zones were the strongest, I loved Uldum and Vashj'ir and the stories that flowed through them. Ragnaros was a fantastic villain and he had a very nicely put together fight. Deathwing, however, was just boring. He came along during a cinematic and burnt a few things, after that he didn't really do anything until Dragonsoul, which imo is the worst raid ever created. Even the final fight against him was just two long and tedious add fights.

    MoP... well. It introduced a lot of fantastic features (Proving Grounds, Challenge Modes), but ultimately I just feel it was the weakest expansion. For the first time in five years I've quit the game. The land itself was plain and aside from Throne of Thunder the raids were so boring. Heart of Fear had so much potential, we could have fought all manner of crazy giant bugs, instead we just got spammed with very similar Mantids wearing different armour. I didn't even bother completing Siege of Orgrimmar before quitting because it was just so dull. The last thing I wanted to hear for the next expansion is that we'd be fighting more war-crazed Orcs.

    The thing I think most people are forgetting when they criticise The Lich King for popping up often and sending minions at us is that was his plan from the start. Go back and listen to his final speech after 1-shotting the raid. From the every beginning we were doing exactly what he wanted like puppets. He sent his zombie invasions into our lands to provoke us. Don't forget at the end of his boss fight he reveals everything - His plan was to use US, "Azeroth's greatest champions", "the greatestest fighting force this world has ever known", as his uberpwn undeads. Everything he sent as us was to test and strengthen us, and if it wasn't for Tirion's miracle he would have succeeded. Now that is what I call an awesome villain.

    Edit: Like others have mentioned, I'm also just waiting for Azshara now. I think she's the only one who can rescue WoW and bring us another Arthas/Illidan level expansion.
    Last edited by mmoc986c22e062; 2013-11-19 at 06:25 PM.

  4. #44
    Scarab Lord Sesto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shise View Post
    No warcraft fan would say such things about Ilidan.
    He said in WoW.

    He is completely right. Illidan as a character in WoW was fucking horrible. Blizzard butchered him.

  5. #45
    Elemental Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sesto View Post
    ...in terms of just lore, MoP beats WoTLK by a long shot. The 5.1 questline, the Klaxxi, Wrathion, etc is alot better than what Wrath had to offer.

    Most people look back on WoTLK fondly simply because it was either the time they joined WoW, was the time where they started raiding, or because they actually knew who the Lich King was from playing Warcraft 3. Blizzard is better at implementing lore into WoW then ever before (not saying they don't make mistakes, like Garrosh), but people are blinded by nostalgia and say how everything was better before.

    Even years later I still can't believe how many people like WoTLK. During WoTLK people whined about how it was catering to casuals (Wrath babies), how DKs were OP, how Blizz is lazy for reusing Naxx, how ToC was further proof they were lazy, how LFD was killing WoW, etc. Now it's hailed as the greatest expansion by many, and you rarely see people who hated it. Quite hilarious.





    See, I'll never understand these people.
    why wouldnt you understand? Itls right in your post people liked wrath cus they either just started or cus of the lich king... stop being negative nancy. Wotlk was good for several reasons. Complaining aftherwards about a expansion is just what happends every f...ing time. Stupid.

  6. #46
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    As a person who has played WoW since 2 months after release (and didn't play warcraft 3) I would say:

    End bosses in order from best to worst:

    Lich King
    Illidan
    Kil'Jaeden
    Kel'Thuzad
    Deathwing
    Garrosh

    Iterations of WoW in order from best to worst:

    Burning Crusade
    Wrath of the Lich King
    Vanilla
    Cataclysm
    MoP

    Off topic? A little. Sorry.

  7. #47
    I miss Ner'zhul. I never liked Arthas, and even less when they decided to throw Ner'zhul into the recycling bin just to make the Lich King into Dr. Claw so he could head an expansion that was as bad as the writing surrounding him. I miss him as much as I miss pooping my diaper.

    At least I'll finally get to see Ner'zhul in WoD, so I don't really care about the Lich King.

  8. #48
    WOTLK had a good story because it was the peak/continuation of WC3 frozen throne, an actual single player game with a story campaign. Everything else in wow before and after was made-up content added on in MMORPG format.

  9. #49
    Bloodsail Admiral salate's Avatar
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    No, just no, I never liked Arthas cuz he left Jaina alone :<
    Jaina cries because she didnt respond Kael'thas.
    So...
    step into everything will gief ya nothing, mon

  10. #50
    Deleted
    Do I miss The Lich King from Warcraft 3? Yes. Do I miss The Lich King from WotLK? Ehh...not so much.

    Arthas was such a cliché villain in WoW, it was horrible how much Blizzard messed up his character, and it was not just Arthas that was poorly done, Deathwing and Illidan suffered too.

    To me, it just seems like Blizzard always fails at writing their older villains into WoW's lore, I guess we'll see if they can make up for it with WoD.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by soulzek View Post
    WOTLK had a good story because it was the peak/continuation of WC3 frozen throne, an actual single player game with a story campaign
    Problem is that when such a continuation isn't executed properly. Frozen Throne had a decent story, but Wrath had a downright terrible one. Characters like Kel'thuzad were just offed immediately, Anub'arak was incredibly out of character, and so was even Arthas. Just because it's a continuation doesn't mean it's good.

    Warlords of Draenor is also going to be an alternate version of Warcraft 2, but hey, I guess that doesn't count because it isn't Warcraft 3.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by blixsauce View Post
    If Ner'zhul is in WoD then you'll have your "original" Lich King back. I doubt he'll be the Lich King at that time but he will be, eventually.
    What if we kill him and Gul'dan takes his corpse through the portal to Northrend and merges it with the crown... Burning ScourgeLegion!

  13. #53
    Deleted
    My first Warcraft experience was WC3, so I've always been find of The Lich King and the Scourge. I love the story of Arthas and the rise of the Scourge, and I really enjoyed the story and lore in Wrath. I'd even go as far as to say that the end of Wrath now feels like the 'end' of WoW for me, Cataclysm was a disappointment and after it I couldn't bring myself to get back into WoW. The Lich King was Warcraft's Darth Vader, and so the end of Wrath was an appropriate finale for me.

    Edit: Reading this thread, it seems I'm in the minority on this forum since I can't understand why anyone would think Kung Fu Pandas and Green Jesus were improvements on Vanilla/TBC/Wrath lore.
    Last edited by mmoc4e765b20d3; 2013-11-19 at 08:01 PM.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by ribald View Post
    Edit: Reading this thread, it seems I'm in the minority on this forum since I can't understand why anyone would think Kung Fu Pandas and Green Jesus were improvements on Vanilla/TBC/Wrath lore.
    You're opinion goes out the door the moment you brought up Kung Fu pandas. MoP was a fun expansion and brought some new things to the table for WoW. Bashing it because of the major race in the game with a comment like that is just silly and makes you look silly.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterOfKnees View Post
    Problem is that when such a continuation isn't executed properly. Frozen Throne had a decent story, but Wrath had a downright terrible one. Characters like Kel'thuzad were just offed immediately, Anub'arak was incredibly out of character, and so was even Arthas. Just because it's a continuation doesn't mean it's good.

    Warlords of Draenor is also going to be an alternate version of Warcraft 2, but hey, I guess that doesn't count because it isn't Warcraft 3.
    Plus we got things like the nexus war in WotLK. Only decent lore in WotLK was the Titan/Old God thing. Maybe because it was original and not transported from previous games. But on the other hand... so was the Nexus war...

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by ribald View Post
    Edit: Reading this thread, it seems I'm in the minority on this forum since I can't understand why anyone would think Kung Fu Pandas and Green Jesus were improvements on Vanilla/TBC/Wrath lore.
    Oh Cataclysm was probably even worse in terms of story, mostly because of how much they butchered Deathwing. However, Mists has had an incredibly gripping story, and if you followed it (if you even played it) you'd know that the Pandarens wasn't the major force in it, but rather the land of Pandaria, its history, and Garrosh of course. The Pandarens themselves had lore of course, but it was rather Y'shaarj, Garrosh and Lei Shen which led the expansion's lore, where only 1 of them has any connection to the Pandarens, and that's having them slaves all the way throughout his reign. I guess you could argue Y'shaarj also had connection to the Pandarens with the Sha and Shaohao, but there was hardly any Kung-Fu involved in that, but rather being about controlling your emotions and finding peace of mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hubbl3 View Post
    Plus we got things like the nexus war in WotLK. Only decent lore in WotLK was the Titan/Old God thing. Maybe because it was original and not transported from previous games. But on the other hand... so was the Nexus war...
    The Nexus War was really weird too, seemed but a poor excuse to kill off Malygos. The lore of Ulduar and Yogg-Saron was good though, but of course that quickly took a dive again with ToC.
    Last edited by wariofan1; 2013-11-19 at 08:13 PM.

  17. #57
    Bloodsail Admiral DrIvoRobotnik's Avatar
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    I miss immersion and having to put effort in to doing something in WoW, as well as the feeling of challenge and reward. But none of those are ever coming back.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterOfKnees View Post
    Oh Cataclysm was probably even worse in terms of story, mostly because of how much they butchered Deathwing. However, Mists has had an incredibly gripping story, and if you followed it (if you even played it) you'd know that the Pandarens wasn't the major force in it, but rather the land of Pandaria, its history, and Garrosh of course. The Pandarens themselves had lore of course, but it was rather Y'shaarj, Garrosh and Lei Shen which led the expansion's lore, where only 1 of them has any connection to the Pandarens (and that's having them slaves all the way throughout his reign.)



    The Nexus War was really weird too, seemed but a poor excuse to kill off Malygos. The lore of Ulduar and Yogg-Saron was good though, but of course that quickly took a dive again with ToC.
    But I gotta say, that Garrosh transformation also seems a little bit... extreme.

    The funniest thing about the nexus war is, that there is nothing accomblished. Malygos is replaced by Malygos 2.0 and nothing else changes. Yay. When I think about it, is the reason Malygos started the Nexus war ever solved? I don't know because it's been a very long time since I last paid attention to the Quests in WotLK.

    I also don't get why people say they love WC3/TFT and therefor TBC and WotLK. Why? Escept from the name Illidan and Arthas have almost NOTHING in common with their WC3/TFT counterparts. As someone who likes WC3/TFT (and WC + WC2 also) this is the main reason I DON'T like the lore around TBC and WotLK:
    Last edited by Hubbl3; 2013-11-19 at 08:17 PM.

  19. #59
    We don't know anything about story and final villain of Warlords of Draenor, and I'm hoping they don't cave and tell us.

    I like not knowing the end of the story before the book is even released.

    Wrath was a good set up, but I felt like Arthas appeared SO MUCH he lost a lot of the menacing aspect he's supposed to have had. He became pretty cliche by the time you fought him. Just a handful of the appearances could have been kept - I liked the ones that he empowered minions from afar rather than the ones where he was physically there and just walks off to let us die in an easily escapeable trap and assume everything went according to plan.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by DrIvoRobotnik View Post
    I miss immersion and having to put effort in to doing something in WoW, as well as the feeling of challenge and reward. But none of those are ever coming back.
    I wonder how you managed to put effort into anything in Wrath in all honesty. I was Heroic raiding without having a clear schedule, just had to meet up once a week to make it halfway through ICC on heroic on first go. Why? Because you couldn't avoid having epics thrown in your face, just from heroics to dailies. Ulduar, sure, but everything else was a piece of cake, even for a casual player like myself. The challenge of the game today is much bigger than it was back in Wrath, if you care to do the right difficulties.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Hubbl3 View Post
    But I gotta say, that Garrosh transformation also seems a little bit... extreme.

    The funniest thing about the nexus war is, that there is nothing accomblished. Malygos is replaced by Malygos 2.0 and nothing else changes. Yay. When I think about it, is the reason Malygos started the Nexus war ever solved? I don't know because it's been a very long time since I last paid attention to the Quests in WotLK.

    I also don't get why people say they love WC3/TFT and therefor TBC and WotLK. Why? Escept from the name Illidan and Arthas have almost NOTHING in common with their WC3/TFT counterparts.
    Couldn't agree more with the last sentence. Nearly every past character they've brought up have been vandalized, that holds especially true to Lich King and Deathwing. Illidan's problem was that he never got to do anything though.

    As for the Nexus War, it started because Malygos believed that the mortal races of Azeroth would end up summoning the Legion with manipulation of magic, much like back in the War of the Ancients. But instead of listening, Alexstrasza just sends a horde of dragons and adventurers after the poor guy.

    And yeah, the Garrosh storyline took a stumble towards the end, but that's minor compared to what has previously happened in WoW.

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