Remove Elitists From Raids and Battlegrounds

[Giscoicus]

I'm a good player and i just ask for assist and mark myself and tell people to follow that.

About time that nazis got mentioned!

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Who is he?
The many people that doesn't read chat and i have to tell 10 times over i'm tanking, directly, and they still go "omg we only have one tank"?
Yes. If there wasn't a tank he had a point. Problem is i make it very visible that i AM going to tank, and yet they never pay attention.
And random flaming is what most of the elitist does. None of us have advocated against saying "you're doing this wrong". We're against obnoxious screaming without addressing the real issue. Often they will address the wrong issue too. People die on nazgrim, due to people not killing adds, and bringing shaman to the boss?
"OMG LOW DPS KICK THEM!", about those that have 50% done to adds.

Edit:
It's not seen elitist to constructively telling people what is wrong. I rarely have trouble with that, but it might be because i'm a fluffy person that just have my way with telling people what to do without them hating me <3

Random flaming is no elitist in anyway. That is players trying to slap buzzwords on everything, so that the casual defense team in LFR will pounce on people being dicks. Say "kik the asshole" in LFR and it might pass. "Kick the elitist" and they will be gone
Your example of add damage is weak. Any damage you deal where other players logs detect it is counted. If you are pulling low numbers on Naz you are pulling low numbers. In a flex raid I will kick people under 100k on Naz if we are having issues, regardless of their add damage, because clearly they just are not doing much. I will also kick those with no add damage. Low dps is still an issue, you cannot follow mechanics but have low damage and expect success, it doesn't work that way.

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Someone got their feelings hurt. Pick up your game or get called out . After this long of a raid being open I expect people to have a grasp on whats needed to be done. Cant wait to see when its only trolls, leechers , and baddies in lfr.

Pls blizzard add LFR coloring to flex so I can keep my sanity.

[khalltusk]

Under 20k? Let me ask is 20k remotely close to what you can do? If everybody was at 20k would the boss die? No. 20k is still too low.

Both player types do not contribute in a purely positive fashion. However, one acts reactively, the other does not. Nothing to react to? No people upset in chat. Fix the root of the issue instead of complaining about anybody who points it out.

Noob, l2p, fail, all of these still suggest there is a skill issue. Calling others a cunt however, is in no way elitist. But if I'm not going baseless insults, and focus on stuff like skill issue, the focus shouldn't be on whether of not I say it nicely enough, but rather if my point has merit. Calling you a "fucking noob" has merit if you are displaying a skill issue. Is it nice? Not nessecarily, but the group shouldn't focus on how nicely I made a statement, but that there is a skill issue with somebody.

But this is the thing calling someone a fucking noob is directly insulting someone. Are you correct? possibly but you still are breaking the terms of service by directly flaming another user. Will you get in trouble for it? not unless a lot of people report you.

People saying noob l2p and fail can quite often be found failing them selves and just throwing out those terms anyway (it happens a lot when im beating someone on lol and they just say fucking noob l2p when we're destroying them constantly). It does not always mean the person its directed at has a skill issue as the other person could be just throwing out those terms to deflect blame.

The root cause of the issue is people lack manners and common decency when interacting with others in game. If someones failing see if it can be sorted out. If they clearly dont give a fuck or are incapable of sorting it out by all means remove them from the group as its causing the other people an issue. But moment you act like a teenager throwing out insults you lose any respect I may have.

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Random flaming is no elitist in anyway. That is players trying to slap buzzwords on everything, so that the casual defense team in LFR will pounce on people being dicks. Say "kik the asshole" in LFR and it might pass. "Kick the elitist" and they will be gone
Your example of add damage is weak. Any damage you deal where other players logs detect it is counted. If you are pulling low numbers on Naz you are pulling low numbers. In a flex raid I will kick people under 100k on Naz if we are having issues, regardless of their add damage, because clearly they just are not doing much. I will also kick those with no add damage. Low dps is still an issue, you cannot follow mechanics but have low damage and expect success, it doesn't work that way.

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Pls blizzard add LFR coloring to flex so I can keep my sanity.

I actually agree with your view point on Flex. If someones pulling low numbers consistently sure kick them as its stopping the group from beating the content. Nothing wrong with it at all.

[Terridon]

The vast majority of bad casual players get their "stress free" game by expecting others to carry them. LFG and LFR has created an attitude unique to WOW where players think they are entitled to complete content because they paid for it.

Except it's not true. You got that from having read too much on the forums with obnoxious people pretending it's like that, while they on the same time pride themself from not trying to help the runs at all.
I dared another to make a screenshot of a lfr with that happening. The condition for me to believe it is pretty simple.
7 players auto attacking their way to 30k.
show healing done too, so i can see it's not healers doing 30k because they're bored.
Should pretty much show names too so i can see they're not from same guild just to make the screenshot. Can of course black names out for the public post.

I play plenty of lfr, and i never see anything remotely as bad as what you make it into. I see players doing low dps. I check them and find out they're just doing 20-30% below their max.
I see people do high dps, and check them and see they do 50% of their max.

[Louis CK]

But this is the thing calling someone a fucking noob is directly insulting someone. Are you correct? possibly but you still are breaking the terms of service by directly flaming another user. Will you get in trouble for it? not unless a lot of people report you.

People saying noob l2p and fail can quite often be found failing them selves and just throwing out those terms anyway (it happens a lot when im beating someone on lol and they just say fucking noob l2p when we're destroying them constantly). It does not always mean the person its directed at has a skill issue as the other person could be just throwing out those terms to deflect blame.

The root cause of the issue is people lack manners and common decency when interacting with others in game. If someones failing see if it can be sorted out. If they clearly dont give a fuck or are incapable of sorting it out by all means remove them from the group as its causing the other people an issue. But moment you act like a teenager throwing out insults you lose any respect I may have.

This exactly.

The large majority of ragers in LFR are terrible players, and they feel that somehow pointing fingers at other people is going to take the spotlight off of them. And sadly, half the time it works, because if they're able to get rid of someone else before they're found out as baddies, then it's less likely that they'll end up being kicked before the run is over.

And since half of the people in LFR wouldn't know performance if it slapped them in the face, they just assume that the loudest person is right and they hit yes when the kick screen pops up.

"The loudest one in the room is the weakest one in the room."

[Lime]

The vast majority of bad casual players get their "stress free" game by expecting others to carry them. LFG and LFR has created an attitude unique to WOW where players think they are entitled to complete content because they paid for it.

What's your point and how does that have anything to so with what I said? I don't care rather or not if the majority are self-entitled bads, there are still those who aren't. They shouldn't be treated like shit just because you hate the former.

Theses day, by definition, I'm a casual. Guess what? I still pull good DPS in LFR. The only thing in raids that annoys me are the asshats who start giving people shit. If I accidentally mess up on a mechanic, the second the idiot opens his mouth, part of me wants to die just to spite him and I know I'm not the only person in that regard. You cannot play flawlessly 100% of the time, shit happens. Players who feel the need to insult others are just toxic.

[Terridon]

Random flaming is no elitist in anyway. That is players trying to slap buzzwords on everything, so that the casual defense team in LFR will pounce on people being dicks. Say "kik the asshole" in LFR and it might pass. "Kick the elitist" and they will be gone
Your example of add damage is weak. Any damage you deal where other players logs detect it is counted. If you are pulling low numbers on Naz you are pulling low numbers. In a flex raid I will kick people under 100k on Naz if we are having issues, regardless of their add damage, because clearly they just are not doing much. I will also kick those with no add damage. Low dps is still an issue, you cannot follow mechanics but have low damage and expect success, it doesn't work that way.

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Pls blizzard add LFR coloring to flex so I can keep my sanity.

No it's not weak. I do close to 300k on nazgrim on my alt feral if i go "fuck this shit" and just dps nazgrim. I do far less when i swap around to the different targets.
Nazgrim is in no way a dps check. Ever. It's a mechanic check, which you should very well know.

I only see "kick the elitist", work when they're being assholes.

Another example. I helped a raid out with a missing dps, and was top damage dealer with the far worst gear, on malk. That was even with me running around to the zones as melee. I'm fairly competent at keeping my damage up, but a lot of other people isn't. But malk is again no dps check, but about doing things right. So i rather have a warrior barely dpsing, but jumping around to the zones, than pushing his full 80-90k dps.
I'm not talking about 30k dps because that's plain afk'ing, but my personal experience is that it almost never happen that you have that. But people like to bring that and 7 up as a number because exaggeration is cool? >.>

Edit:
Flex is another case though, since it's less of randoms, and people are expected to be gemmed/enchanted/reforged and know what they're doing.

[Giscoicus]

But this is the thing calling someone a fucking noob is directly insulting someone. Are you correct? possibly but you still are breaking the terms of service by directly flaming another user. Will you get in trouble for it? not unless a lot of people report you.

People saying noob l2p and fail can quite often be found failing them selves and just throwing out those terms anyway (it happens a lot when im beating someone on lol and they just say fucking noob l2p when we're destroying them constantly). It does not always mean the person its directed at has a skill issue as the other person could be just throwing out those terms to deflect blame.

The root cause of the issue is people lack manners and common decency when interacting with others in game. If someones failing see if it can be sorted out. If they clearly dont give a fuck or are incapable of sorting it out by all means remove them from the group as its causing the other people an issue. But moment you act like a teenager throwing out insults you lose any respect I may have.

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I actually agree with your view point on Flex. If someones pulling low numbers consistently sure kick them as its stopping the group from beating the content. Nothing wrong with it at all.

Insulting somebody and saying something not positive about them are too different things, especially when there are meters and stuff to prove they have a skill issue. That's not flaming. If I said kick the terribad mage, and he reported me for calling him terribad, assuming that somehow his 1 report actually got me noticed, Blizzard could easily see the Mage was doin horrible, or if I was banned I would open a ticket stating that he was doing 15k dps and dying every pull. That's not flaming. I don't have to compliment you every time I say something, if there is something negative to say about a player, that can be backed up, then sayin it isn't flaming
You can't even show decency on this forum insisting that it is childish to criticize people. I'm not a teenager and suggesting that I am brig immature because I am not tolerant of everything is you being intolerant on complaints. If I should tolerate people who still think stacking stamina is viable or tanking, then you should tolerate people telling you to L2P.not having the decency to know your class before joining group content is really a problem in the community.

[Lime]

Someone got their feelings hurt. Pick up your game or get called out . After this long of a raid being open I expect people to have a grasp on whats needed to be done. Cant wait to see when its only trolls, leechers , and baddies in lfr.

Yeah, because newer players are totally going to know what to do. You treat them like shit, they quit and then you guys complain that the game is losing subs.

And no, watching a YouTube video does not mean that you'll be able to do the mechanics perfectly. It gives you some insight, but that's all.

[khalltusk]

This exactly.

The large majority of ragers in LFR are terrible players, and they feel that somehow pointing fingers at other people is going to take the spotlight off of them. And sadly, half the time it works, because if they're able to get rid of someone else before they're found out as baddies, then it's less likely that they'll end up being kicked before the run is over.

And since half of the people in LFR wouldn't know performance if it slapped them in the face, they just assume that the loudest person is right and they hit yes when the kick screen pops up.

"The loudest one in the room is the weakest one in the room."

Sad but true. Luckily as a tank I get to do my job correctly get my loot and enjoy my day. (I say get my loot but no shoulders dropped for me this tier so far! I should stop playing XCom and do more lfr! although just got hearthstone beta invite so there goes yet more free time!)

I have seen people throw blame out for "low DPS" when the cheeky fucker was lower than the person they are trying to kick/blame!

Infact a recent one I mentioned about some shit talkers low dps. He was flaming and calling a couple of timeless isle guys bad and to be fair their numbers were not great but around 60-90kdps on most fights. I chip in saying well they are not the best geared but at least they are not the lowest dps in the raid and are not dieing on boss fights. This guy tried to flame me saying I was only 3rd on damage to his 2nd and I suck. The number 1DPS reminds him im a tank on a single DPS fight. The guy quickly shut up

[aikanaro]

e·lit·ist
əˈlētist,āˈlētist/
noun
adjective: elitist; noun: elitist; plural noun: elitists

a person who believes that a system or society should be ruled or dominated by an elite.

By Definition, i agree elitists can be aggravating and outright mean to people... however many people have different personal definitions of an elitist. I am not an "elitist" unless were in a guild run and people are messing up then i get a little annoyed and may start arguing with people. When i pug i almost never say anything degrading to anyone, i may offer up some advice which may come across as condescending to some people but im honestly just trying to help because that's the kind of person I am. What I consider an elitist, is more of someone who is (or is trying) to be the best they possibly can be, for instance, i once spent almost 2k gold and about 4 hours on calculators during cata reforging and re-gemming and re-enchanting all to get every ounce of damage out of my hunter that i could something like 15 - 20 dps. That is what i consider an elitist.

[Louis CK]

Insulting somebody and saying something not positive about them are too different things, especially when there are meters and stuff to prove they have a skill issue. That's not flaming. If I said kick the terribad mage, and he reported me for calling him terribad, assuming that somehow his 1 report actually got me noticed, Blizzard could easily see the Mage was doin horrible, or if I was banned I would open a ticket stating that he was doing 15k dps and dying every pull. That's not flaming. I don't have to compliment you every time I say something, if there is something negative to say about a player, that can be backed up, then sayin it isn't flaming
You can't even show decency on this forum insisting that it is childish to criticize people. I'm not a teenager and suggesting that I am brig immature because I am not tolerant of everything is you being intolerant on complaints. If I should tolerate people who still think stacking stamina is viable or tanking, then you should tolerate people telling you to L2P.not having the decency to know your class before joining group content is really a problem in the community.

l2spell

OT: Stacking anything as a tank is actually "viable" in LFR. I don't even have tank gear and I tank LFR just fine, and occasionally Flex when we lose a tank. Most of the problems with LFR aren't with poor playstyle, but with people actively working against the group. And a bad attitude can be tied right in with that, because it causes people to not give a shit anymore.

[Lime]

What I consider an elitist, is more of someone who is (or is trying) to be the best they possibly can be, for instance, i once spent almost 2k gold and about 4 hours on calculators during cata reforging and re-gemming and re-enchanting all to get every ounce of damage out of my hunter that i could something like 15 - 20 dps. That is what i consider an elitist.

That's not elitism, thats just being a min/max'er.

[Deleted]

You want to kick elitists from heroic raids?


What?

[aikanaro]

That's not elitism, thats just being a min/max'er.

exactly my point, but everyone i know irl who plays the game considers me an elitist anyway.. lol i was simply saying people may be using different definitions for this arguement

[khalltusk]

Insulting somebody and saying something not positive about them are too different things, especially when there are meters and stuff to prove they have a skill issue. That's not flaming. If I said kick the terribad mage, and he reported me for calling him terribad, assuming that somehow his 1 report actually got me noticed, Blizzard could easily see the Mage was doin horrible, or if I was banned I would open a ticket stating that he was doing 15k dps and dying every pull. That's not flaming. I don't have to compliment you every time I say something, if there is something negative to say about a player, that can be backed up, then sayin it isn't flaming
You can't even show decency on this forum insisting that it is childish to criticize people. I'm not a teenager and suggesting that I am brig immature because I am not tolerant of everything is you being intolerant on complaints. If I should tolerate people who still think stacking stamina is viable or tanking, then you should tolerate people telling you to L2P.not having the decency to know your class before joining group content is really a problem in the community.

Apologies I was referring to the "general" you rather than stating YOU directly.

There is nothing childish about pointing out someones falings but it is childish to call someone terribad. IF the guys doing low DPS sure point it out, this guys damage is low kick away. Saying "this guys a terribad mage" is childish and is infact flaming them. Blizzard may not even action on it as its not really that bad an insult. It is still an insult however.

If you read my posts you will note I am not asking for you to be all nice and rosey to people. You can point out failings with out resorting to flaming. As for my choice in gemming? I've quite clearly not kept up to date with theory crafting on the best gems/enchants etc. Why? I am no longer doing cutting edge content like I used to. Shock Horror I am a former Heroic raider. If I ever get back into it the first thing I would do is shake off the rust and get my Theory crafting on and figure out what I should be doing right gear wise.

[-Superman-]

Well, terribad would include players who do terribly as well. Nobody has ever start insulting someone without a reason to do it. I'm not saying that makes it justified, but if you don't think you're the cause, you're ignoring the facts.

Getting called out for doing something wrong and kicked for it is one thing. A player downright losing it on another player being both vicious and cruel without any provocation other than simple frustration is unacceptable. I get that people get upset when something goes wrong, but that just means they need to say something about it like an adult and either kick the person or move on. Flying off the handle like a 5 year old and shouting vicious statements is not the right answer.

[Surfd]

Only if this system also monitors people who do not put at least basic effort into actually playing the game.

You want a happy life without those nasty elitists? I want my "casual" raid without the auto-followers, AFKer, auto attackers and other people who are only there fore the free ride on my back.

[-Superman-]

You want to kick elitists from heroic raids?


What?

I want to keep elites in LFR and BGs and remove elitists from LFR and BGs. 42 pages and you still managed to miss the topic and all the explanations thus far. Bravo sir

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Only if this system also monitors people who do not put at least basic effort into actually playing the game.

You want a happy life without those nasty elitists? I want my "casual" raid without the auto-followers, AFKer, auto attackers and other people who are only there fore the free ride on my back.

I agree that people are problematic, but there are adult ways of handling these types of things. It's just a game, there is no cause to lose our cool and fly off the handle.

[Giscoicus]

No it's not weak. I do close to 300k on nazgrim on my alt feral if i go "fuck this shit" and just dps nazgrim. I do far less when i swap around to the different targets.
Nazgrim is in no way a dps check. Ever. It's a mechanic check, which you should very well know.

I only see "kick the elitist", work when they're being assholes.

Another example. I helped a raid out with a missing dps, and was top damage dealer with the far worst gear, on malk. That was even with me running around to the zones as melee. I'm fairly competent at keeping my damage up, but a lot of other people isn't. But malk is again no dps check, but about doing things right.
I'm not talking about 30k dps because that's plain afk'ing, but my personal experience is that it almost never happen that you have that. But people like to bring that and 7 up as a number because exaggeration is cool? >.>

It becomes a dps check when:
•adds aren't dying fast for more focus on boss
•add phase overlapping
•hit enrage
•cannot burn through last 10% before destroyed

Either way you shouldn't be doing terrible dps because of adds. Add damage is detected.

[Terridon]

It becomes a dps check when:
•adds aren't dying fast for more focus on boss
•add phase overlapping
•hit enrage
•cannot burn through last 10% before destroyed

Either way you shouldn't be doing terrible dps because of adds. Add damage is detected.

No.
It has never happened if all the players actually swapped to adds.
Enrage only occurs because adds/totems heals boss
Last 10% is from people not killing last addwave(sometimes the wave that spawned around the same time as 10% got hit).

I'm sorry but have you even tried the fight?
It has nothing to do with a dps check any of that you mentioned. What you're talking about is having some people bruteforcing it with high dps. It's two different things.
And you're missing my point entirely about the dps. I do play the game, and i know that the add damage is logged.
Take me for instance going on my feral. I want bleeds up to do good damage. But the adds dies too fast for it to get up and running. Then i starve myself of energy to get enough damage in on them quickly, and swap to next add, standing there, and waiting for my energy to come back.

You LOSE dps from swapping! So the person on adds will almost always do way less than one tunneling the boss. That's why i hate people doing 100k on the boss telling that the guy doing 60-70k with most being on adds, that he sucks. Because he would probably do more than 100k if he haven't had to waste time running around, swapping, reapplying.

Edit:
Is of course some classes that is great at it, and have large enough aoe to get more damage from it, but a lot doesn't.