10Man Heroic Spoils help!

[Deleted]

Good morning guys! I hope you're well.

It's been a few weeks since you've all heard from me so just popping by again.

Our guild are struggling with Spoils and I feel that our strategy is lacking something obvious but can't seem to pinpoint what it is. I also feel that our raid may just be underperforming. Let me start off with our Comp.

Tanks
- Blood DK (Mogu Group)
- Guardian Druid. (Mantid Group)

Healers
- Resto Druid (Mantid Group)
- Holy Pala (Mogu Group)

DPS
- Hunter (Mogu Group)
- Ele Shaman (Mogu Group)
- Ele Shaman (Mantid Group)
- Destruction Warlock (Mantid Group)
- Retribution Paladin (Mantid Group)
- Frost DK (Mogu Group)

We seem to be having great difficulty executing this boss and keeping up with the DPS. Originally, the tanks were the other way round however as the Mantid group failed on DPS, we swapped our guardian druid as his cleave DPS is insane, just to balance the DPS a little.

Mantid Strategy
On our mantid side, they have a retridin use his engi kite to fly down to the distant green box and open it whilst the tank opens the other. We kill both Panda's and then instantly open the big boss one once dead. They would open the two small ones and aoe them down whilst taking the boss to 0%. As soon as the boss is dead, they open two mediums and continue to open the five small ones as the druid can take the damage, aoe and cleave them all down. They then skip the next big boss, take another 5 small ones, 2mediums and a small, then 5 smalls and then the last two medium and switching this around seems to have made the fight a little easier on their side.
We rarely get to the next phase due to somebody standing in pheromones or something similar. Is it better to kill both big bosses in this room? I'm not sure whether to prioritise healing over raid awareness as people shouldn't be standing in the small zones.

Mogu Strategy
Funnily enough, this side usually makes it with around 15 seconds spare.
On my side, I disengage straight to the panda box and our blood DK opens the other one, cleave them down and then open the big box. I find myself literally having to single target the stone giants and sparks during this and therefore feel the boss is alive much longer than he should be (Is it due to positioning)? We then take two smalls and two mediums putting the urn > Anima golem > Everything else as our priority and ensure we're kiting it so it doesn't waste time. we then take another two mediums and the 5 smalls at the back of the room, AoE them all down. Then take the last big box and BL.

I can't really say how our strategy is, I thought it would be a lot easier than most others however, we really seem to lack somewhere. If anybody could provide any suggestions, I would be very much appreciative.

For logs EU Al'akir -> ION -> Sunday the 8th December is where most of our attempts are.

Kind regards,

Mikazt

[Deleted]

Kill both big bosses @Mantid. The R-Druid should not have any problems healing that shit. He can use a tranq, even without the panda-healer-spirit it's easily doable. He should Symb the hunter so he gets a deterrence with a /cancelaura macro to quickly avoid the bombs if he can't afford to run back/place them/heal again because people need heals. Stay in the green circle and avoid standing in the gust wind/pheromones obv.

We pop the first big with 2-3 small, hero here. We either have the spirit-healer & wave dmg OR the tank-shit with aoe-stun. Then 2 medium and 1-3 small, then the next big one (cooldowns on that one then). Be sure to dispell the enrage (both druids can do it) on the warcallers!

[Deleted]

Kill both big bosses @Mantid. The R-Druid should not have any problems healing that shit. He can use a tranq, even without the panda-healer-spirit it's easily doable. He should Symb the hunter so he gets a deterrence with a /cancelaura macro to quickly avoid the bombs if he can't afford to run back/place them/heal again because people need heals. Stay in the green circle and avoid standing in the gust wind/pheromones obv.

We pop the first big with 2-3 small, hero here. We either have the spirit-healer & wave dmg OR the tank-shit with aoe-stun. Then 2 medium and 1-3 small, then the next big one (cooldowns on that one then). Be sure to dispell the enrage (both druids can do it) on the warcallers!

Thanks very much for the tips, will give them a go later on today and see how it fairs out!

Anything else guys?

[Deleted]

Both groups will have to deal with both rooms, so don't spend too much effort in making a "mantid" group and a "mogu" group. Just try to make evenly strong groups with good buff synergy. If one group is a lot faster than the other, then that's just time wasted. You can bloodlust in the 1st room for the slower group to even things up a bit, but it's better to even up the dps.

Remember that aura buffs don't carry over into the other room. Your Mogu group is missing spell damage and armor debuffs assuming your Hunter is doing crit. Your Mantid group is missing attack power and attack speed. Obviously personal performance of the players makes a big difference in the type of setup you want to make, so can't give you any specific tips on that. Just keep the buffs in mind when making groups.

We kill 2 big bosses, 4 small and 6 medium in both rooms. While opening more smalls does let you get more cleaving in, it also results in more sparks for the other room. Some of the abilities from the small ones are also quite dangerous, the Kunchongs and Burial Urns in particular. Both are high priority nuke targets for us. Dealing with the bombs is annoying enough without the whole room being covered in yellow crap.

People have killed it doing 1 boss and all small ones, so no one can say that either way is wrong. You just have to find the way that's the best for your group.

It may vary on your box setup, but I believe Mogu room usually takes a little longer than mantid room. So if your Mantid group is already slower in the Mantid room, then they may have problems with time on the 2nd Mogu room. You can switch up sides to get some mogu/mantid practice for both groups, but eventually you want to stick to one side for a kill because the box setup is different on each side.

[Deleted]

You mention 5 small, you should only open 4 small.
The total order is: 2 big, 4 small, all mediums (6 afaik)
More smalls, more sparks, more wasted dps, more chances for wipes.

I open the first big with 2-3 smalls and finish all the smalls before 1st big is dead. Then i open all mediums, only stopping at urn/anima and no more then 3 mediums up at the same time. I also position the big in middle of the room so dps can cleave down statues, sparks etc.

It's all about tanks knowing when to push and when to slow down and how to most efficiently open boxes, so you dont waste time running, make sure dps can cleave etc.

[Deleted]

This may not be what is keeping you from killing this, but as a resto druid myself I am noticing that your resto druid is assisting very little in terms of damage, apart from the healer buff. There's plenty of low damage phases where you can moonfire/wrath freely, and myself I usually end up doing 15-20m damage this way towards the end of the fight. There's also very little cooldown usage done. Nature's Vigil is meaningful damage and healing on this fight and should be used on cooldown.

[Deleted]

Without looking over logs one really big tip I can give it to be efficient with what you are dpsing. It's all well and good going mad cleave/aoe but if you're not focusing the right targets (urns not sparks etc) you're not gonna fill that energy bar up quick enough.

[Thalur]

@OP You didn't say how you handle the sparks, which is an important part of the fight. If you have one (or even two) dps switching to them all the time, you lose a lot of damage on the "bosses". This is where you can utilize the buffs: If your healer gets the buff (stave), he should do the sparks mostly on his own, leaving the dps to kill the bosses. If you don't get the stave, you can tank the mobs close to spawning sparks so the tank and melee can cleave them with their buff.
Also your druid should get Deterrence from the hunter, this way he can not only disregard bombs on him once but also remove bombs lying around at the same time.

Here is a video of me healing the boss. You can see how I utilize the buff to kill the sparks (in the first room), and put out some dps (mostly MF and some wraths) whenever possible. This is first Mogu then Mantid. I had 560 ilvl and did 120k HPS and 80k DPS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fYVBVEwxLE

[Deleted]

Thanks for your input guys, I've taken a few tips and managed to re position and think our tactics through! Very close to a kill last night, if our tank didn't have the speed debuff when he was tanking the Anima golem, we would've had it down. It's just execution now Thank you once again!

[Deleted]

dont know if you still need tips, but since you already seem to have mogu sorted, ill share with you the easiest tact for mantid side.

2 pandas
1 big 2 small
2 more small while the big is still alive
take 2 mediums
then 2 mediums
then 2 mediums
then the big boss
if done correctly you should have your cds up again for the big boss and be at 36 energy when u open the big boss crate which will put you at 50 after it is dead.

we use lust on the first big boss crater of the second room, regardless of the side, as thats where usually everyone's cd, are on cd, so lust helps us with that bit extra dps/healing to manage trough it.

[herpecin]

the single most important thing about spoils is opening correctly.

too slow and you run out of time, too fast and you get killed or you overrun the other side with sparks.

you always want something to hit, and all the mobs have a short activation time where you can hit them but they dont do anything.

mobs to pay attention to are anima/urn in mogu, and kungchong in mantid(and the big ones for both sides obviously). all the other mobs are basically cannon fodder. yes there are things like kiting/interrupting/dispeling, but with the gear that is available now those things arent as critical as they were when the first groups were doing them.

your tanks need to remember how many littles they have opened(the otheres are easy to remember), and know when they can open more.

you will always have either a tank or healer buff, so use those to quickly wipe out sparks(they both hit for ~750k and sparks have ~1mil health). the tank buff is honestly the biggest damage buff in the fight(accounts for around 20-25 mil damage per side). getting it can be the difference between clearing fast enough and not.

your first kills will be close, and once you get to the 2nd side you are 90% done with progression on the fight. the only REAL damage that will happen is the big mobs on the mogu side when they have 4+ statues up and do their AoE(shit hits for like 500k on the whole group).

[Libertarian]

Open new boxes around 10-20%

[Deleted]

dont know if you still need tips, but since you already seem to have mogu sorted, ill share with you the easiest tact for mantid side.

2 pandas
1 big 2 small
2 more small while the big is still alive
take 2 mediums
then 2 mediums
then 2 mediums
then the big boss

I'd add that 1 big boss does way more damage than 2 medium ones. So from a healer perspective it's easier to do 2 medium + 2 small and then 2 medium + 2 small again, taking nothing extra during the bosses. Time wise it's pretty much identical.

[Andaja]

Ill write what works for us, might be useable for you too.
Mogu room opens boss>4 small,6medium>boss
Mantid room opens 2medium>small until 22 energy>2bosses

That way we are not overrun by sparks in neither rooms.

On mogu we find it easier to deal with lesser amount of small ones and all the medium ones. On boss remember to kill statues asap. The priority for us is sparks>statue>boss.

On mantid we find it easier to just open two medium and rest smalls. They die to tank/healer buff very fast, plus people help abit by aoeing. The priority is kunchong, but at that point its tank responsibility to get group out of puddles. I usually try to have 4 small ones up at a time.

Oh and last thing, you are saying about standing in shit. Its not your responsibility, its theirs. They need to not stand in bad shit and its their responsobiity to notice things that might hurt, kill them.
On top of that, on your longest try your top dps seems in the same range as ours, your lowest thou. Your hunter really needs to step up abit, unless hes new/undergeared. Shaman/s seems lowish aswell. Frost dk too. The only real thing I see is that you seem to be aoeing a lot more then us. We do have very similar comp and our shamans, paladins and dks aoes are almost last column on world of logs. Maybe you should try more single target approach, with aoe being provided from healers/tanks buff.

But in all seriousness, I kinda would like a more direct questions, like what is actually killing your people and the raid as a whole.

[Deleted]

help?playu wow

[Deleted]

I'd add that 1 big boss does way more damage than 2 medium ones. So from a healer perspective it's easier to do 2 medium + 2 small and then 2 medium + 2 small again, taking nothing extra during the bosses. Time wise it's pretty much identical.

the way i do it is also the best way spark wise, mogu has to deal with the less sparks like that.

[Deleted]

the tank buff is honestly the biggest damage buff in the fight(accounts for around 20-25 mil damage per side). getting it can be the difference between clearing fast enough and not.

What are your healers doing with their buff? I do at least 25 mil per side, with the Mogu side sometimes up to 50 mil alone.

[Bonsaii]

Put your DK on the Mantid side, he can dark simulacrum a damage buff and a rather large heal.

Your healers suck at positioning. They should be pointed at the sparks, if no sparks then point at adds. DPS shouldn't even touch sparks if healers have the buff.

Way too many fucking small boxes. You'd get shitloads of sparks.

[Herecius]

Not the DK, put the Hunter on Mantid side. The Hunter can tranq shot off every single dangerous buff with extreme ease, include Residue and Rage of the Empress. Negating Residue especially will have a large impact on your speed.

[wrynil]

We just managed this boss tonight. Once you get through the first door, or only are missing like 1 box then you will start seeing the improvements. Untill then it may seem like you are not getting anywhere. It might just be a bit of a gear isue, it was in our case, we downed it a week or 2 after the first attempts due to upgrades, we didnt really spend that much time on it in between the first week and the kill here tonight.

Have the elemental shamans purge healing buffs on mantids side could give some edge, but im not sure, the disc and resto shaman did that in our group.

Our mogu group had the dps to not use lust on their first room and saved it for the mantid side, the mantid side keepd it for the mogu room. The mantid side opened both of the big mogus(when we reached that room) one after the other, they are not as hard as the mantid one though which are plain annoying with the bombs if you are only 1 healer 1 ranged