My suggestions to fix LFR

[Normie]

Everyone whose not afk has a 2 hour vote kick timer

I'm not, and I don't.

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If you really want to fix LFR, go in there and make them wipe repeatedly on mechanics that allow it. Maybe just maybe a friend and I went into LFR SoO and started the instance as soon as we zoned in after each wipe. No one knew who was talking to Lor'themar and all they did was bicker and fight. By making LFR truly inhospitable, you're going to force players into trying Flex where they will either sink or swim. I've had the fortune of LFR heroes trying to come into a Flex fight and think their 80k dps is just fine and dandy and that they don't need to stand in the purple puddle next to them on Malkorok. Their asses are sent packing real quick and after a couple more times, they'll either improve their playstyle or stay in LFR where they belong. Now that LFR is almost entirely Timeless Heroes who want to afk their way to SoO loot, the instance is a damned nightmare.
...

So I say again, destroy every LFR you can. Reveal it as the true wasteland it is. And the community will be better for it.

Your version of social engineering makes you a perfect fit for some other MMORPG. Please go find one.

[Giscoicus]

Would not work. And would not be fair. Different people, different skill set. Some people can achieve very high DPS, some others will struggle. That is why there are World First raiders, Server First raiders, Heroic raiders, Normal raiders etc.

You are talking about LFR. The bar is set very low so people who cannot raid Flex or higher has a chance to do some raiding. Why penalize them for raiding at the lowest difficulty? Why are people so uptight about doing more DPS/HPS than others? You are better than them, so you are doing better than them.

If you do not like carrying people, then don't do LFR. If the group as a whole is progressing with minimal problems, is that not a good thing? If there are a few stragglers, who cares. Just continue, kill the boss and get your loot. That is what you are here for. Why care so much about individual performance? Leave that for progressing raids. LFR is farm for most of you. Treat as such. The guilds I know would usually take a few undergear toons to raids on farm status because their low DPS/HPS does not matter.

Yes there are different skill levels, but it still isn't fair for somebody to not pull their weight. The skill requirement for LFR is low but there is one. Ask yourself, if everybody played at his skill level would the group progress without determination stacking. If yes then fine, but many times it would be a no.

There is no reason for people to just accept they have to carry people in a LFR. Why people care is because they are trying, and others are making them out forth even more because they will not carry their weight. It's not a penalization for them not trying, it's a penalization for those not carrying their weight.

[Ronduwil]

To put that into perspective, let's assume Thok has 867 mil health in LFR with a 10-min enrage timer. If your group took 8 minutes to down him, all dps above 45k would be eligible for loot. How about a fast kill at 6 minutes? 60k. A slow kill at 10 minutes? 36k.

So if the tank derps or happens to hit a lag spike and you, as top DPS, pull aggro early in the fight and die you're ineligible for loot. How is that fair again? I have a better idea. If the thought of someone else getting a piece of substandard loot for tagging along to an instance that you played through is really so frustrating then just don't run LFR. You can always do Flex, Normal, and/or Heroic raids instead.

[Ronduwil]

No, queue times are up for dps. And he also mentioned completion rates. The fraction of players who have downed Garrosh (on LFR or above) is shockingly low. LFR is failing at getting people to "see the content". They are just not bothering to finish it.

When was the last time you ran LFR? I chained 6 LFRs in four hours Sunday night as DPS. Maybe the initial queue is longer, but that's because players can now queue for multiple LFRs at once (i.e. everyone can stand in six lines at one time so of course the lines will be longer). However, because you're queued for so many instances at once the net effect is that you get into subsequent instances almost instantly. So 45 minutes for the first instance and then 0-5 minutes for the next one as DPS.

[Giscoicus]

I speak from personal experience. I spent 2-3 hours one weekend in about 10 different oqueue waitlists. When I finally got in a group we wiped on Immerseus like three times before disbanding. Thanks, but no thanks. I'll run Flex with my guild when they do it, and lately that's been not at all. For those reasons, LFR is still my best bet for collecting legendary quest drops.

P.S. I love how everyone who disagrees with you is either a moron or a "shitter."

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What hours? That has not been my experience at all. Granted, I play late nights and weekends.

And that is using Oqueue. It's not actually people grouping together, the leader was likely not kicking bad players, it's different from grouping with battle tag friends or having a competent leader. Groups clear Flex in a couple hours. LFR dps queue can be an hour even if the group you get in was all 14/14H. Sure the clear would be quick but you spent way more waiting that a flex group takes yo clear two wings.

[Terridon]

I think LFR is a good service to the game by allowing people to see extremely watered down versions of fights and of course seeing the Lore.

The biggest issues I have with lfr are
1. People have basically 0 accountability
2. Que times are horrendous

my suggestions
1. Offer tanks and healers some incentive to que, no the satchel is horrible. One idea is for every wing of lfr you tank or heal you can be placed in the front of the line as a dps toon.

You tank Vale of Eternal on your warrior
you then que for Vale of Eternal on your druid dps and skip the line

or give an increased loot drop for healers and tanks nothing major

or double valor for tanks/healers



As for accountability, the vote kick rule basically ensures every group will have trolls or afkers. People should be able to vote kick whenever they want. The dps in the SOO tier has been 20k-40k lower than it was last patch. If someone wants to roll in and do 20k dps than the group should be able to kick them.

Should be for completing it obviously, but it does actually sound like a decent idea for altoholics with the skipping queue on the next run you join with an alt. A fresh one too, since as tank you've contributed more to bringing the queue down, even with you getting first in line as dps once after it.

Agreed that they really should take a look into the kick system. I'm fine with people not having unlimited kicks, since there's a lot of idiots that can't handle that, but if you play often, you shouldn't have the same amount of kicks that one that plays once every year, which you do currently.

Against improved loot chance though. Even a slight one. Rather more valor, or a actually usefull satchel.

[Ronduwil]

Ia friend and I went into LFR SoO and started the instance as soon as we zoned in after each wipe. No one knew who was talking to Lor'themar and all they did was bicker and fight.

I think my relationship and how I conduct myself in game is just fine, thank you.

I think you should look up the meaning of the word fine. If you would be so kind as to PM me your in-game character's name and server I will happily put it on my ignore list so I can steer clear of your twisted concept of a "good" community.

[Giscoicus]

So if the tank derps or happens to hit a lag spike and you, as top DPS, pull aggro early in the fight and die you're ineligible for loot. How is that fair again? I have a better idea. If the thought of someone else getting a piece of substandard loot for tagging along to an instance that you played through is really so frustrating then just don't run LFR. You can always do Flex, Normal, and/or Heroic raids instead.

Controlling your agro is part of being a good Ayer. Don't go ham on pull or after a tank swap. Every class has defensives and most have agro dumps as well. Whose to say losing agro doesn't count against tanks instead?

There is no reason to just accept people will not put forth effort and carry them. It wasn't designed with an intention to let 5+ people auto attack as a few people actually pull good numbers. If the thought of somebody calling others out for slacking is so offensive to you don't do LFR an do a mode with accountability for others that doesn't lead to flame wars.

[Osmeric]

When was the last time you ran LFR? I chained 6 LFRs in four hours Sunday night as DPS. Maybe the initial queue is longer, but that's because players can now queue for multiple LFRs at once (i.e. everyone can stand in six lines at one time so of course the lines will be longer). However, because you're queued for so many instances at once the net effect is that you get into subsequent instances almost instantly. So 45 minutes for the first instance and then 0-5 minutes for the next one as DPS.

This means LFR is now basically reserved for people who can schedule an entire evening for multiple runs. Someone with less time will get the long queue for the first instance, do some of it, then be out of time.

[Ronduwil]

And that is using Oqueue. It's not actually people grouping together, the leader was likely not kicking bad players, it's different from grouping with battle tag friends or having a competent leader.

And this is where I quote the portion of Blizzard's Raid Finder Q&A about LFR being intended for:

players who may not have had the opportunity to take part in raid content due to scheduling conflicts, playtime constraints, limited access to other raid-capable players, or a lack of experience with higher-end content.

These are exactly the players who don't have raid-capable BattleTag friends. I'm happy for you that Flex is working out. Then there's no reason for you to run LFR and you can quit complaining about it. Live and let live.

[Krekko]

I have a feeling they are going to remove Tanks/Heals as being mandatory from the LFR queues as soon as they can, have it in a scenario like situation.

That way you're not pestering with anything and what have you. If you want to queue as tank? GREAT want to queue as healer? GREAT! If not, oh well, you'll survive.

[Drekmar]

I think LFR is a good service to the game by allowing people to see extremely watered down versions of fights and of course seeing the Lore.

The biggest issues I have with lfr are
1. People have basically 0 accountability
2. Que times are horrendous

my suggestions
1. Offer tanks and healers some incentive to que, no the satchel is horrible. One idea is for every wing of lfr you tank or heal you can be placed in the front of the line as a dps toon.

You tank Vale of Eternal on your warrior
you then que for Vale of Eternal on your druid dps and skip the line

or give an increased loot drop for healers and tanks nothing major

or double valor for tanks/healers



As for accountability, the vote kick rule basically ensures every group will have trolls or afkers. People should be able to vote kick whenever they want. The dps in the SOO tier has been 20k-40k lower than it was last patch. If someone wants to roll in and do 20k dps than the group should be able to kick them.

I cant imagine anything that would make tanks get back to tanking LFR, without making it too unfair against other roles. On the other hand, lots of unskilled players would start tanking which could result in more tears from people.

Although I formerly used to do normals and HCs, my school takes a lot of my time so only thing I would be able to run now would be LFR. However, they invented the Flex which made me really happy, with it I dont have to step in LFR.

[Osmeric]

I have a feeling they are going to remove Tanks/Heals as being mandatory from the LFR queues as soon as they can, have it in a scenario like situation.

And I expect the gear rewards to be massively nerfed, or even entirely removed. Heroic 5 mans and world PvE would be back as the catch-up mechanism, particularly if they bump up the difficulty of existing dungeons from tier to tier.

[Ronduwil]

Controlling your agro is part of being a good Ayer. Don't go ham on pull or after a tank swap. Every class has defensives and most have agro dumps as well. Whose to say losing agro doesn't count against tanks instead?

As you just pointed out, sometimes the DPS pulls aggro early and sometimes mechanics screw with the mob's aggro table so the tank can't get aggro. If you attempted to constrain raid mechanics just to make it easier for the game to auto-detect fails I guarantee you'll hear much more howling from the heroic raiders about how their content is being nerfed for the sake of "bads."

There is no reason to just accept people will not put forth effort and carry them.

You don't need a reason. It's just a game. If you don't want to "carry" people then don't run LFR. They don't want you in their instance anyway.

It wasn't designed with an intention to let 5+ people auto attack as a few people actually pull good numbers.

Actually it was. It has to be, because when you throw 25 players together there are bound to be a few duds. This is not a surprise. Again, I'll quote the Raid Finder Q&A:

Raid Finder will match players up to form a 25-player raid. This allows for a more forgiving experience should errors be made by individual players.

If the thought of somebody calling others out for slacking is so offensive to you don't do LFR an do a mode with accountability for others that doesn't lead to flame wars.

This is double speak. If the thought of holding someone accountable is offensive do a mode that holds players accountable? I think the reverse is the case. If you don't like the lack of accountability then don't run it. Stick with your BattleTag friends and your Flex.

[gamingmuscle]

No it does take more time to remove mechanics than it does to add them.

Why on earth would this be true.

[Krazzorx]

And this is where I quote the portion of Blizzard's Raid Finder Q&A about LFR being intended for:

These are exactly the players who don't have raid-capable BattleTag friends. I'm happy for you that Flex is working out. Then there's no reason for you to run LFR and you can quit complaining about it. Live and let live.

But they are going to fix LFR to be more in line with the intended audience. It turned from "letting everyone interested to see the content" to "only form of gear progression whether or not you like or dislike raid content."

They're going to fix that in WoD. Bring down LFR rewards slightly (probably eliminating tier is all they need to do because getting tier in other content would be weird) and buff rewards from other content such as open world and hard heroic dungeons to be equal. There, now the people running it will all be the intended audience.

[mysticx]

I just want a back-end "upvote" system. Where at the end of a raid I can upvote those I enjoyed playing with and it tries to matchmake me into groups with them later.

In my opinion, you don't notice the good players all that much (tanks and maybe healers aside), it's the douchebags, griefers and waste-of-a-slot players that stick in memory (this is also why people are so convinced LfR sucks, the good flawless runs don't really stay in mind much), so how does it work for the "merely" decent players who keep their heads down and just get the job done without complaining? they won't get many upvotes, so what do they get?

[reemi]

The problem is not LFR, there's too many raid level and timeless isle gear should be lower than LFR.

Flex or Normal or Heroic, I don't care, All I want is the LFR tools to join any group any time, without using an addons like OQ.

[Drekmar]

You don't need a reason. It's just a game. If you don't want to "carry" people then don't run LFR. They don't want you in their instance anyway.

Thats whats actually happening right now. People who didnt want to carry people in LFR moved to Flex.

[Ronduwil]

So when you're in LFR and after a quick alt+tab, bathroom break and drink refill you notice your raid wiped, do you feel guilty about putting up sub 100k dps in the gear you opened boxes and went afk to get? Or does the fact you paid $15 allow 24 strangers to be resposible for dressing up your ingame barbie doll so you can afk in Shrine and post on the forums about lack of content?

No, because I do the best I can in the gear I have. Why would I play a game to AFK? The whole point of the game for me is the encounter. The loot at the end of the fight is a nice bonus. I was perfectly happy in the original Guild Wars where you bought the best gear in the game at max level and from then on it was all transmog. Gear just isn't a priority for me. I honestly am puzzled at all the rage people have at the thought of others in sub-par LFR gear. Most players in LFR are actually trying. I rarely see someone AFK in there. When someone is caught AFKing they are promptly kicked. This forum has a very skewed view of LFR. It's not 5 players trying while 20 others AFK. No bosses would ever go down that way.