An idea about item slots, items overall and weapon visuals.

[Shinrael]

As a starter, I'd like to have you know that I, myself, am not certain if I like this idea of mine. I am still neutral about it because I don't know how big of an impact it can cause to the game but it sounds interesting to me and I'd like to hear your opinions and arguements. Please, don't flame at me, this is not a war. Also, just for this idea forget any restricions and requirements such as Blizzard's busy schedule, no developers to work on it. There should not be "X is better so I'd rather it happens instead." I highly doubt this idea will ever become a reality, therefore, the only thing we will discuss here is whether we like the idea or not. Whether it is possible, whether it will happen, whether something else is better - It's completely irrelevant here.

Do you think it is about time to have an item slots overhaul?

Merge Wrists and Hands slots

Pros:
● Neither have a model.
● Wrists aren't even visible ( There are just a few gloves and bracers combinations that allow both to be seen ).
● This will allow for some visual improvements. If the new merged gloves ( let that be their name for now ) get a new model, it will no longer have to be necessarily gloves. Some sets may have gloves, some may have wrists, some may have fingerless gloves, some may have a mixture of gloves and bracers. ( Something similiar to Grommash's gloves in the WoD trailer ). Basically, you can have visible wrists with a model.

Cons:
● We lose one item slot from the viewpoint of stats. There are various solutions such as changing the amount of stats other slots provide.

Merge 1H weapons into one single slot just like 2H weapons and simply combine their stat values.

Pros:
● Will make gearing for 1H weapon users easier.
● While indeed it does simplify ( "Dumbs down the game" guys, I hear you ) the game a bit, there are a lot of 2H weapons and that has never "dumbed down the game".
● Will allow Enchancement Shamans to use 2H weapons again. Will allow WW Monks to use 2H weapons more often.

Cons:
● Some may argue that it will kill the 2 different one-handerrs fashion but a special option for that can be added to the transmog UI.

You can now wield Shields along with a 2H weapon but your attack speed will greatly be reduced to even things out.

Pros:
● A lot of people want it.
● Looks cool.
● Not gamebreaking at all.
● Supported by logic and common sense.
● Supported by movies and books.

Relics ( librams, totems, idols ) return to the game with their own special slot and replace Off-hand Frills. Cannot be used with dual weapons ( even if merged into one slot ) but can now be used with 2H weapons such as Staves and Hammers ( maybe other weapons too ).

Pros:
● Removes a stat-stick item slot ( Blizzard has already done it with melee weapons for hunters and ranged weapons for warriors/rogues ) which is completely unnecessary.
● Will satisfy A LOT of players. Staves/Hammers + Librams is a much desired feature by the majority of WoW's community.
● These relics will improve a certain ability or a set of abilities ( Decreases Fireball cast time/Increases slow duration of all frost spells ) OR it will give you new special abilities. These effects/bonuses will last as long as you wear the libram. They will not have an ilvl and will not count towards ilvl requirements ( LFR for example ). They will not give direct damage boosts in order to reduce cookie-cutter picks. They could last more than one expansion and still be usefull but will be rarer and require more effort to get the one you like/prefer the most or get one at all.
● All of the things mentioned above will improve gameplay and add diversity to the game and make each character unique in its own way.
● Blizzard is already adding permanent spell bonuses that you "unlock" as you level in WoD so my idea can't be that bad.

Discuss

[Lodreh]

No.

To expand on this... why no loose a slot you will never see... like a ring instead. Personally, I'd like it better if we had more slots. What if I wanted a huge right shoulder and nothing on my left... or one sleeve of mithril instead of a shield... more customization not less my friend.

[Bullettime]

Maybe not so much the 1h weapons but I do agree that wrists and gloves could be merged. Wrists are never seen and offer one of the smallest stat boosts of any other piece of equipment. Merging them with gloves allows them to make them a better part of the visuals and have more oomph in the stat gain of the total piece.

[Shinrael]

Maybe not so much the 1h weapons but I do agree that wrists and gloves could be merged. Wrists are never seen and offer one of the smallest stat boosts of any other piece of equipment. Merging them with gloves allows them to make them a better part of the visuals and have more oomph in the stat gain of the total piece.

Glad you agree with me.

Mind stating your opinion on the 1H weapons part? I could add/remove things from it ^^

[Granyala]

Merge Wrists and Hands slots
Do it, Wrist is one of the most unexciting slots anyway.

Merge 1H weapons into one single slot just like 2H weapons and simply combine their stat values.
Only useful for casters that don't "use" their weapon or off hand in any way.
I strongly disagree that it should done for melee.

You can now wield Shields along with a 2H weapon but your attack speed will greatly be reduced to even things out.
Dumb idea. A 2H weapon is a 2H weapon for a reason: you NEED both hands to swing it properly.
Titans Grip is retarded enough as it is and should remain the only exception to that rule.

Relics ( librams, totems, idols ) return to the game with their own special slot and replace Off-hand Frills. Cannot be used with dual weapons ( even if merged into one slot ) but can now be used with 2H weapons such as Staves and Hammers ( maybe other weapons too ).

Wait you want to remove Wrists because they are boring and non visible, but you want that relic crap back? They were removed because they were boring.
Make up your mind please.

[Shinrael]

Merge 1H weapons into one single slot just like 2H weapons and simply combine their stat values.
Only useful for casters that don't "use" their weapon or off hand in any way.
I strongly disagree that it should done for melee.

You can now wield Shields along with a 2H weapon but your attack speed will greatly be reduced to even things out.
Dumb idea. A 2H weapon is a 2H weapon for a reason: you NEED both hands to swing it properly.
Titans Grip is retarded enough as it is and should remain the only exception to that rule.

Relics ( librams, totems, idols ) return to the game with their own special slot and replace Off-hand Frills. Cannot be used with dual weapons ( even if merged into one slot ) but can now be used with 2H weapons such as Staves and Hammers ( maybe other weapons too ).

Wait you want to remove Wrists because they are boring and non visible, but you want that relic crap back? They were removed because they were boring.
Make up your mind please.

1. Please explain why, I am sincerely curious.
2. "Swing it properly" is the keyword here. In real life I can hold a shield and a big weapon because I have strong arms. In fact, there are no 2H and 1H weapons. They are just weapons with different sizes. If a weapon is big, it requires 2 hands to swing it properly, but you can still swing with it using just one hand if you are strong enough. Naturally, that will slow you down, but it makes sense. TG in WoW looks dumb because of weapons overlapping and poor attack animations.
3. No, you misread ( or maybe I didn't explain well enough ).
a) I want librams back, they would take Off-hand Frills' spot. I thought this would be obvious, but they are supposed to be visible, just like Off-hand frills are. If you have a libram, you will hold a book in your hand and so on.
b) I don't want the stat-stick relics back. I want relics with fun and special bonuses that differ for each class, spec and/or ability.

[greysaber]

stopped reading @ enchancement.

that's always been a big pet peeve of mine. almost as bad a rouge.

[Granyala]

1. Please explain why, I am sincerely curious.
2. "Swing it properly" is the keyword here. In real life I can hold a shield and a big weapon because I have strong arms. In fact, there are no 2H and 1H weapons. They are just weapons with different sizes. If a weapon is big, it requires 2 hands to swing it properly, but you can still swing with it using just one hand if you are strong enough. Naturally, that will slow you down, but it makes sense. TG in WoW looks dumb because of weapons overlapping and poor attack animations.
3. No, you misread ( or maybe I didn't explain well enough ).
a) I want librams back, they would take Off-hand Frills' spot. I thought this would be obvious, but they are supposed to be visible, just like Off-hand frills are. If you have a libram, you will hold a book in your hand and so on.
b) I don't want the stat-stick relics back. I want relics with fun and special bonuses that differ for each class, spec and/or ability.

1) If a character sports 2 weapons it should be 2 physical items. Esp since many melee like to sport different weapons with different speeds in their respective hands. (I'm no melee expert though). That gameplay would go away if you only drop "pairs" as one item.

2) I doubt that you could wield a 2H weapon effectively for an extended period of time in 1 hand. Your arm would tire extremely quickly and your blows would be very weak. It might work for a few swings, but nor for an entire battle.

3) Offhand frills aren't visible, because cast animations don't involve the weapon or offhand.

[Vightnic]

Seems like the 2h thing could be solved just by letting you transmog a 2h skin over a 1h skin. I'd also prefer keeping both hand slots independent. I just don't really see gearing as being a necessary area to trim stuff. Adding back in Relics seems like you're just adding another trinket slot, I think they should just work on making trinkets visible if people want to accessorize.

[Shinrael]

1) If a character sports 2 weapons it should be 2 physical items. Esp since many melee like to sport different weapons with different speeds in their respective hands. (I'm no melee expert though). That gameplay would go away if you only drop "pairs" as one item.

2) I doubt that you could wield a 2H weapon effectively for an extended period of time in 1 hand. Your arm would tire extremely quickly and your blows would be very weak. It might work for a few swings, but nor for an entire battle.

3) Offhand frills aren't visible, because cast animations don't involve the weapon or offhand.

1) That was "fixed" during Cata ( 4.3 if I'm right when the Legendaries had same speed or something like that, if not that then MoP. I remember blues talking about it )
Plus a pair can include both a 1.8 and a 1.4 speed dagger.

2) You are right there, but then again, not everything is realistic in games. Normally you'd be tired after fighting just 10 minutes ( well maybe 1 hour if well trained ), but in WoW I can chain kill stuff 24/7 and not get tired. ( well I will but my champ wont. )

3) They are. they have their own model and textures. However the poorly scripted character models hide the off hand frills while fighting or casting. Also, it should be obvious: Just because it isnt there doesnt mean it cannot/shouldnt be done.

- - - Updated - - -

stopped reading @ enchancement.

that's always been a big pet peeve of mine. almost as bad a rouge.

I don't understand.

Seems like the 2h thing could be solved just by letting you transmog a 2h skin over a 1h skin. I'd also prefer keeping both hand slots independent. I just don't really see gearing as being a necessary area to trim stuff. Adding back in Relics seems like you're just adding another trinket slot, I think they should just work on making trinkets visible if people want to accessorize.

There could be a few accessoaries slots that include: off-hand frills, necklaces, rings and trinkets or something like that. But a trinket and a libram are 2 totally different things. Also, the types of bonuses they bring are completely different too.

It's a bit funny, a lot of people comment "I dont like this but the rest is good" yet all votes in the poll are "All of the ideas are bad". -_-"

[Granyala]

1) That was "fixed" during Cata ( 4.3 if I'm right when the Legendaries had same speed or something like that, if not that then MoP. I remember blues talking about it )
Plus a pair can include both a 1.8 and a 1.4 speed dagger.

3) They are. they have their own model and textures. However the poorly scripted character models hide the off hand frills while fighting or casting. Also, it should be obvious: Just because it isnt there doesnt mean it cannot/shouldnt be done.

1) would a melee still be able to mog 2 visually different weapons in your model?
3) Dunno, so far offhand are rather dull looking. It'd be great though if a staff would do more than just "be there".

[Shinrael]

No.

To expand on this... why no loose a slot you will never see... like a ring instead. Personally, I'd like it better if we had more slots. What if I wanted a huge right shoulder and nothing on my left... or one sleeve of mithril instead of a shield... more customization not less my friend.

None of the changes I've listed restricts customization. Merging wrists and gloves into one slot allows us to have visible wrists. Some people prefer wrists over gloves.

Merging one-handers into one slot doesnt restrict their visual customization.
you dont need 2 slots for shoulders. An option to hide one or both of your shoulders can be added in interface menu or transmog UI. or some of the shoulder models can be made to just have one side. having a sleeve of mithril instead of a shield is just a visual change, so your shield item will just look like a sleeve of mithril. completely irrelevant to the original post.

The libram/relic idea above actually adds customization.

- - - Updated - - -

1) would a melee still be able to mog 2 visually different weapons in your model?
3) Dunno, so far offhand are rather dull looking. It'd be great though if a staff would do more than just "be there".

1) Yes, see the Cons part. Maybe I didnt explain well, my bad. What I mean is that, you can have an option in the transmog UI. You can actually keep same transmog UI which has 2 weapon slots and only the actual item slots in your character pane would change.
3) Yep, thats my idea as well. I want some spells to be cast through the staff/weapon maybe even through the libram. The ideas of mages and other casters carrying books/tomes is to gain access to abilities that are hard to memorize or that require too much concentration so you need to help with the magic words or w/e.

They are like side wheels. Creating a fireball by reading the magic words from a tome will speed up the process immensely. This is my idea. Relics = a new item slot that provides players with both a lot of unique visual effects and also adds fun gameplay bonuses.

[Granyala]

3) Yep, thats my idea as well. I want some spells to be cast through the staff/weapon maybe even through the libram. The ideas of mages and other casters carrying books/tomes is to gain access to abilities that are hard to memorize or that require too much concentration so you need to help with the magic words or w/e.

Animation wise it would rock if we could use librams like the Draenei pally in the TBC cinematic.
Balance wise relics/librams would be a nightmare if you want to go beyond what we had back in the day: "This is your PvE one, take it or leave it".
Since they are spec/class specific there wouldn't be many alternatives. And it would take considerable dev time to design more per tier.

[Shinrael]

Animation wise it would rock if we could use librams like the Draenei pally in the TBC cinematic.
Balance wise relics/librams would be a nightmare if you want to go beyond what we had back in the day: "This is your PvE one, take it or leave it".
Since they are spec/class specific there wouldn't be many alternatives. And it would take considerable dev time to design more per tier.

If you are talking about visuals ( models, textures and animations ) - We get atleast 3 new off-hand frills models every raid tier anyway plus if they manage to animate one, the rest will be easy

If you are talking about the bonuses - Won't take as much time as you need. Also, as I said, the idea is to have more flavour bonuses and you can some minor abilities improvements or entirely new spells. If done right it won't disrupt the pvp and pve balance and there wouldnt be cookie cutters. Something similiar to Blazing Speed - PoM - Ice Floes mage talent tier. All 3 are good, Ice Floes is the best but also most situational. I use Blazing Speed because I love it and its super useful and fun but some people prefer PoM for increased dps. None of them increases damage directly. And the one that actually gives you a free pyroblast ( for example ) is not a cookie cutter.

[Prokne]

I like the bracers idea and maybe the dual weapons idea but adding relics back is not a good idea. You just shift who has to find more pieces to different classes. I would probably also slim it down to just one ring which would even out the sides of your character gear slots.

[Lord Pebbleton]

I don't agree with those idea.

To be honest, i've never even understood why they took a weapon away from everyone in the first place.

[Feali]

And what exactly is the gain of those ideas?

[Peso]

Why try to fix something that's not broken.

[ComputerNerd]

I don't agree with those idea.

To be honest, i've never even understood why they took a weapon away from everyone in the first place.

Removing what was in most cases either a gimmick or a boring stat stick.
Arguable certainly how interesting a neck or ring slot is, but at least that is consistent across any character.
Unlike a melee weapon on a hunter which is simply a stat stick but hugely important on a warrior.
Let an item slot be consistent between classes/specs, let it have a functional job or not.
Do not mix and match, and make things worse than they are already with druid forms as a good example.

I think I can get behind the bracer/glove merging but not the others.

[Deleted]

1. As you stated yourself this offers absolutely no improvement stat/balance wise and is purely cosmetic. And I personally think that something like that is best solved by upgrading the current possibilities of transmog and adding a bit more purely cosmetic gear for transmog purposes only.

2,3,4:Removing offhand frills and leaving shields and destroying dual wield in favor of one handed weapons again don't make me any sense besides purely cosmetic reasons. Transmog upgrades again.


4+:
First of all saying satisfy a lot of players isn't a good argument. I personally don't know that much people being sad about them gone for good.
Second, why offer upgrades to skills to single wielders(More like 2 handed wielders which seem to be your pet peeve) and deny the option that to dual wielding classes?
Third, how do you imagine to make an equipped spell upgrades actually offer choice and not be a cookie cutter. Not giving direct damage boosts but giving indirect damage boosts still gives a damage boost. Faster cast time means less time spent casting and more DPS.


I support the visual idea. I also want to wear fist weapon as Paladin for example or Dual Wield. Or at least look like it. And as long as it's purely cosmetic it should be fine. However I disagree about major slot/gear/stat changes without serious explanation why is that necessary.