What about our mighty warchief Vol'jin in WoD?

[Deleted]

Although its reached a point that this particular subject has become the dead horse and beating it is just showing a further degrading aspect of the culture, I will add some observation, based on last years mr warchief January.

The only reason people would like vol'jin, is because of one reason.
Its not because he's a good character, he really isn't, he's done nothing remotely special in comparison to other leaders (minus baine).
Its not because he represents the horde as a whole, he's shown how he doesn't, and only focused on his single minded pursuit of garrosh.
Its not even that he's got any kind of personality, reading shadows of the horde, it feels like he's a copy and paste version of other characters I've read a dozen times before.

The reason he's suddenly become popular with people, is because these people, are latching on to the status quo. They don't care anything about vol'jin as a character, infact I guarantee over half the people saying they like him, couldn't even be bothered to read his novel. They like him purely because he's shaking up the status quo, because he's the new shoes the kids want, and because its something 'different', it must be good, like all kids like.

And this, is exactly how garrosh got to where he is, because well anyone with common sense saw the kind of character he was, all the others jumped up and down saying how great garrosh was, because he was new, because he changed the status quo of the story.

honestly, this horse has been beaten enough. You people just prove how easy you are to string up.

Ever since Vanilla, when I saw myself in Orgrimmar, i would always visit Thrall and Vol'jin and /bow at them both. I do love Vol'jin since W3 TFT on the Founding of Durotar. Even though he lost his father recently, he was there founding his how nation for his own kind, while fighting practically on his own against the invading humans (until Rexxar came on the rescue).
Just saying that other people have a different opinion on a subject is childish is just narcissist and egocentric.

I do wish you good, but i will never come to respect you, if you just judge other people opinions like that.
Have a good day.

[Maoli]

Can you imagine someone introducing Vol'jin as warchief of the horde to legendary orcs such as Grom, Durotan, Doomhammer, etc.? They would laugh their ass off.

Why would Voljin go to Draenor with us? Blizzard implied we might not return in the panels at blizzcon. I have a feeling Thrall, a few other heroes and some alliance / horde are going through the portal and closing it to stop the Iron Horde. We won't see other faction leaders going over. Voljin needs to stay and rebuilt Org.

[LazarusLong]

as you said, suicide mission. why would vol'jin, who is now leader of the horde, go on that mission? who would lead the horde if we fail the suicide mission? No political leader would ever go on a suicide mission. That said, there is nothing preventing him from going through the portal in 6.1 or later after we initial success, much like varian and garrosh or any of the other leaders came to pandaria after our initial success in 5.1

I think we just found a lot of recruits for suicide mission in this thread. You know, for the warchief!

[Albert the fish]

Why the hell would they laugh at a gigantic tusked monster leading the Horde? They've never known the horde we know, they've honestly never known any horde at all, seeing as they never banded together under Ner'zhul and Gul'dan, so they couldn't possibly have that prejudice.
What they'll know is what Garrosh told them, and he never knew much of the Horde either, so all they'll see is a ritualistic beast leading a horde of savages, just like they do.

more importantly they are going to get a gigantic(granted he's skinny) tusked monster that utilizes a pretty savage cunning in addition to strength to lead..and he's good at it.

the horde in Blackhand and Doomhammer times may have prized brute strength over other things but they definitely appreciated tactical might and cunning. that is unless we're ignoring that Blackhand accepting Gul'dan because he was a shifty bastard that could outthink most foes and had access to powerful if dark magics. (that almost sounds like someone...but ... i can't quite place my finger on who) not to mention the acceptance of entire cadres of two separate factions of intelligence based dark magicians that openly usurped the old shamanistic way of life. yes clearly these older crowd of orcs value orcish culture to the point that they would laugh at the modern horde daring to abide by a meritocracy and taking advantage of a sneaky fuck that can also lead.

don't get me wrong, Vol'jin is a sneaky fuck and orcs typically don't go in for that. that being said, Gul'dan wrote his ticket on the same idea and he ruled Blackhand as a puppet for a while and even convinced Doomhammer that he was worth keeping around and listening to.
Hell Doomhammer even invited Zul'jin into his Horde and allowed him leadership privileges over the rank and file. but im sure the old Doomhammer will take one look at trolls and see them as the clearly inferior people that they are. that makes sense.

No i'm sorry people, before the Horde was built several clans were based on spellcasters like Gul'dan and Ner'zhul. shaman yes, but still magic users more intent on using their minds and magic than their arms and axes.
Within the old Blackhand Horde these same spellcasters were considered at worst incredibly valuable tools and at best worthy leaders.
Doomhammer did little to chance this and fully accepted the Troll(albiet forest) people as not only allies, but worthy of the same high levels of leadership as the orcish spellslingers. they both utilized assassins like Garona and listened to their advise(admittedly less so than purists of magic or brawn)
Hell a figure very similar to Vol'jin was made Warchief in Ner'zhul.

and this particular spellslinging and vicious backstabber even has the backing of a powerful shaman.

if the old orcs were willing to accept spellslinger and vicious backstabbers as leaders before and during demonic corruption then i think the uncorrupted ones might JUST be able to accept a magicusing conniving sonovabitch as a valid leader this time around.

not that im saying they'll accept Vol'jin as THEIR leader, but leader of our Horde?

yeah they'd be mildly miffed at best, kids. their track record reveals them as pretty egalitarian so long as it's meritocratious so Vol'jin just has to prove he's clever and ruthless enough to lead the New Horde.

something tells me that it won't be problematic. again especially with a shaman(who the old Horde respected deeply for wisdom) as powerful as Thrall backing his right.

[Faroth]

Don't you know?

He'll be sitting with Varian in a neutral location playing Hearthstone!

[Deleted]

I don't want my horde to be a bunch of warlike douches, i'm really please that under Thrall the Horde was more like a huge peaceful conglomerate of rejected and/or benevolent races.

I mean, i really love how Blizzard painted the orcs, that's the first time i saw shamanistic and civilized orcs in a cultural product, usually orcs are just painted as retarded creatures that only thinks about war and destroying.

Sadly, Mists of Pandaria and Garrosh Hellscream dissapointed me... they destroyed everything i liked in Wow's orcs.

Since i prefer the horde i just described, i think Vol'Jin perfectly fits in the warchief role.
I don't want the Horde to fall in the evil stereotype.

[Deleted]

Well that's heroic. There's great danger coming from the portal, danger serious enough we have to go investigate on possibly a sucidie mission and the warchief of the horde stays behind playing political leader?

I can already imagine voljin "yea you guys go ahead see whats up with that portal mon i be here shuffling papers"

you called?



- - - Updated - - -

Can you imagine someone introducing Vol'jin as warchief of the horde to legendary orcs such as Grom, Durotan, Doomhammer, etc.? They would laugh their ass off.

Made me lol

And who cares? Grom a hero ? He's the biggest idiot there is. Shows in form of Garrosh. Drank mannoroth's blood TWICE!. Saved orc race? Seriously? More like doomed it twice.

Doomhammer and Durotan. They are the right stuff. Rest of the warlords? What's so good about them. Legendary? Yes. Good? No. I play orcs mostly but I think Vol'jin is the best candidate for warchief.

Who cares if they would laugh? We will have the last laugh beating Grom's ass and laughing at him.

Grom is full muscles and no brain. Honestly, that's what he is. Only clever guys there are Durotan, Doomhammer (not a warlord though) Gul'dan and Ner'zhul.

[shoc]

WoD is much an Orc Expansion as much as MoP was a Panda expansion. Sure we'll see so much of them at launch that we'll want to vomit on our keyboards, but the following expansions are going to tell their own story, and Blizz has made that explicitly clear. Hell, I'll put money on there being just as much Draenei content as there is Orc, but we don't see anyone throw their arms in the air screaming "omg draenei expansion blizz alliance favouritism". We'll have Orcs be the catalyst for a bigger conflict, just as we had Pandas set the stage for the real story of MoP, the Alliance-Horde war, and Garrosh's epic rise to power and the revolution that took him down. I'm sure Blizzard isn't going to write Vol'jin up as the revolution leader turned Warchief and keep him cooped up in the throne room for the whole expansion, I'm sure we'll see more of him than we'll even want in the first place.

[Kuul]

Well that's heroic. There's great danger coming from the portal, danger serious enough we have to go investigate on possibly a sucidie mission and the warchief of the horde stays behind playing political leader?

I can already imagine voljin "yea you guys go ahead see whats up with that portal mon i be here shuffling papers"

That's why you become a boss or in this case Warchief so you don't have to do the shitty jobs.

[Rosstafa]

One the case of Vol'jin not doing anything, I think that's mostly due to game mechanics. The raiders are supposed to be the ones saving the day, and it's safe to assume there is a lot we don't see in the siege. Vol'jin goes above to fight the battle that is still above ground. Vol'jin was responsible for orchestrating the entire siege and gathering the Horde together to mutiny against the warchief. His forces helped secure a large area around the gates of Orgrimmar, and they just needed our help to push through. Our perspective of the siege was limited, and so I think it's unfair to judge other characters involvement when we didn't see the entire event.

I think his position as warchief will be tested though. The Orcs that remain in his command have been let down by the Orc they trusted most, and I think Orcish morale will be at an all-time low especiallyu among those racists who are against a Troll warchief. When faced with the Iron Horde, Orcish power at its greatest, many will probably join it and Vol'jin will need to give them a reason to stay. He's been integral in keeping the Horde together through MoP, and if Blizzard does the character justice, he will continue to do so throughout WoD.

[Laukkanen]

Varian... Again, leader of a faction, he has to go and fight! He's High King and all! I guess... Someone has to lead the humans on Draenor, might as well be him I suppose.
I guess the Dark Irons were to make an appearance, so guessing Moira might be around a bit.
Tyrande... Maybe she'd go to deal with the bastard orcs cuz they cut down her forests...
Gelbin hasn't been doing much and this doesn't sound like the time for him to shine.
Velen will of course be around, but will the present Velen show? I somehow don't think so... I got a feeling he's just that powerful that he knows all and would act the same either way.
And Genn... might lead some ferocity to Draenor...

As an alliance-player/fan I'll answer this part for you.

Genn - nothing
Tyrande - nothing
Gelbin - nothing
Moira - nothing
Velen - nothing, alternate Velen who's not a pushover will do stuff, but due to alternative timelines he will remain on Draenor and forever be irrelevant for us.
Varian + Anduin - everything the Alliance does. In every zone, in every cutscene, in every questline. Always. All hail the high king Varian Wrynn.

Sigh.

[Falrinn]

One the case of Vol'jin not doing anything, I think that's mostly due to game mechanics. The raiders are supposed to be the ones saving the day, and it's safe to assume there is a lot we don't see in the siege. Vol'jin goes above to fight the battle that is still above ground. Vol'jin was responsible for orchestrating the entire siege and gathering the Horde together to mutiny against the warchief. His forces helped secure a large area around the gates of Orgrimmar, and they just needed our help to push through. Our perspective of the siege was limited, and so I think it's unfair to judge other characters involvement when we didn't see the entire event.

I think his position as warchief will be tested though. The Orcs that remain in his command have been let down by the Orc they trusted most, and I think Orcish morale will be at an all-time low especiallyu among those racists who are against a Troll warchief. When faced with the Iron Horde, Orcish power at its greatest, many will probably join it and Vol'jin will need to give them a reason to stay. He's been integral in keeping the Horde together through MoP, and if Blizzard does the character justice, he will continue to do so throughout WoD.

I doubt there are many Orcs who oppose the idea of a non-Orc Warchief and didn't fight on Garrosh's side. Almost all of of the Orcs who are actually under Vol'jin's authority likely supported the rebellion which was partially defined by an opposition to Orcish supremacy from day 1. They would not be interested in siding with a Horde that espouses Garrosh's ideals.

[StationaryHawk]

As an alliance-player/fan I'll answer this part for you.

Genn - nothing
Tyrande - nothing
Gelbin - nothing
Moira - nothing
Velen - nothing, alternate Velen who's not a pushover will do stuff, but due to alternative timelines he will remain on Draenor and forever be irrelevant for us.
Varian + Anduin - everything the Alliance does. In every zone, in every cutscene, in every questline. Always. All hail the high king Varian Wrynn.

Sigh.

I guess if you want to ignore every case of anyone other than Varian/Anduin doing anything, then you're right.

[Laukkanen]

I guess if you want to ignore every case of anyone other than Varian/Anduin doing anything, then you're right.

when was the last time any of the other racial leaders participated in anything?

Moira in a scenario. Genn at the start of Cata.

Maybe I haven't paid attention to everything in MoP but yeah... I've only seen Varian, Jaina and Anduin

[Val the Moofia Boss]

He'll be busy back home cleaning up the last expansion's mess, and become Tirion Fordring 2.0: An awesome character who completely disappears after his star expansion is over.

[Durandro]

In my opinion, WoD is exactly why Vol'jin or any troll or any other race for that matter should have never become warchief of the horde.

...why? Because only an Orc can fight other Orcs?

Also, here's a revelation. Warchiefs aren't prophets. They don't know who they will be fighting against in the future, nor what challenges await. You know what they do? They react to situations and fight to protect and improve the lives of the people under their command.

- - - Updated - - -

Can you imagine someone introducing Vol'jin as warchief of the horde to legendary orcs such as Grom, Durotan, Doomhammer, etc.? They would laugh their ass off.

And they'd be fools like Garrosh to do so. Underestimating Vol'jin is a very stupid thing indeed.

But personally? Having a Troll leading Orcs shows how strong he is. They might laugh at first, but when the Horde (and Alliance) start kicking in their door and giving them a hiding they'll start wondering "are we so superior?" They won't be able to hide behind the notion they are being beaten by another Orc.

It'll be extremely humbling for them, or it'll be their death.

- - - Updated - - -

Well that's heroic. There's great danger coming from the portal, danger serious enough we have to go investigate on possibly a sucidie mission and the warchief of the horde stays behind playing political leader?

...THATS WHAT LEADERS DO!

Seriously. What the hell.

- - - Updated - - -

Not really no.

Actually, yes. He just had no power beforehand. Moment he gets it, he's throwing his weight around. He was always a monster - first from willing negligence, later from a massive ego complex.

[Falrinn]

when was the last time any of the other racial leaders participated in anything?

Moira in a scenario. Genn at the start of Cata.

Maybe I haven't paid attention to everything in MoP but yeah... I've only seen Varian, Jaina and Anduin

Tyrande was also in a scenario (for better or worse) and was ultimately the one who breached the gates of Orgrimmar. Gelbin Mekkatorque also participated in the Siege of Orgrimmar as well.

Now I do agree that the Alliance story was much too focused on Varian/Anduin/Jaina in MoP, but from the looks of things we won't have to worry about that in WoD so Blizzard probably got the hint.

The ironic thing is, it's actually their importance that precludes them from going to AU Draenor in 6.0. Varian and Jaina are both national leaders and no national leader would go on a suicide mission. And even if Anduin wants to, I doubt Varian will let him go on a one-way trip.

It's the same reason why Vol'jin won't be going there in 6.0. He is much better suited to organizing what will become the main campaign against the Iron Horde because it's his duty to lead the Horde. Him dropping his position and running off on an adventure at the first opportunity would actually make him a really bad Warchief. The only reason someone as important as Thrall is going is probably because it was his fault Garrosh attained any serious power at all.

[Lordwaus]

in the upcoming expansion Vol'jin will do something... controversial, the forums will be full with that Vol'jin is an evil and bad warchief. Then blizz tries to give him a better image but failing in the process and this will lead to him to becoming a dick towards non-trolls because reasons. Eventually he will give amnesty to a part of the Zandalari tribe and this will lead to the climax of the next expansion the siege of echo isles.

[Laukkanen]

Tyrande was also in a scenario (for better or worse) and was ultimately the one who breached the gates of Orgrimmar. Gelbin Mekkatorque also participated in the Siege of Orgrimmar as well.

Now I do agree that the Alliance story was much too focused on Varian/Anduin/Jaina in MoP, but from the looks of things we won't have to worry about that in WoD so Blizzard probably got the hint.

The ironic thing is, it's actually their importance that precludes them from going to AU Draenor in 6.0. Varian and Jaina are both national leaders and no national leader would go on a suicide mission. And even if Anduin wants to, I doubt Varian will let him go on a one-way trip.

It's the same reason why Vol'jin won't be going there in 6.0. He is much better suited to organizing what will become the main campaign against the Iron Horde because it's his duty to lead the Horde. Him dropping his position and running off on an adventure at the first opportunity would actually make him a really bad Warchief. The only reason someone as important as Thrall is going is probably because it was his fault Garrosh attained any serious power at all.

One major problem with the Alliance leaders are that half of them are more or less superweapons and can't be written into a story because they are more or less supposed to win a battle singlehandedely. Malfurion is more or less the strongest mortal ever known on Azeroth and is supposed to blow anything away whenever he his fighting. So he obviously cannot be used.

Same with Velen more or less although his powers are more down to his prophecies and future-tellings. But I assume he's still very strong as he's kinsman with Archimonde and Kil'jaeden. So, he's more or less also impossible to actually use. And Tyrande is blessed by the powers from Elune herself. Rather much a loose-cannon on a ship for a story her as well.

[GRYMLAWK]

The novel was terrible. They didn't miss out on anything. It was more about the shado-pan then it was about him. In fact "shadow of the horde" should not have even been the name since it has ZERO horde things in it. Vol'jin was more part of the shado-pan then the horde for the whole novel.

Was it that bad? I bought it a week ago and I was just about to start reading it, was excited to =/