Question for those who are in favor of no-flight

[darkwarrior42]

Note: The purpose of this thread is not to debate flight in WoD. It won't be in WoD until 6.1, we all know that, and if you wish to debate that fact (for or against) there's a massive thread over here to do so: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...out-WoD-flying

My question is this: Let's assume that Blizzard put a vote to the community (I know, they'd never do it, it'd be a terrible idea, just run with it). The vote was on whether or not to remove flying from the game permanently, with no way to get it back... but at the same time, transform every flight path/master into a Portal keeper. These portals would function exactly like the old flight paths; you can travel to any portal you've previously visited, costs of traveling would be identical, all portal locations would be identical to current flight path locations, they would be completely identical to flight paths in every respect, save one: travel time would be instantaneous.

Would you support this idea? Taking flight out of the game permanently, and reducing travel time by flight master to the time it takes your loading screen to finish?

(Poll incoming)

[ThunderTaco]

I don't enjoy flying that much, but I do it for only 2 reasons :

1) Avoid PvP, i moved to a PvP server to play with friends, but I don't like PvP in general, not only WoW.

2) To show off with my black proto drake, haven't seen any on my server.

So yes, I would accept, if they let me get to raids without having to fight massive Alliance players.

[Kaldriss]

theres no options for both flying AND instant portals

[Deleted]

that is the worst idea i've read yet. portals feel like playing on a fucking private server. you people would sacrifice anything for convenience, even actually playing the game (garrisons are kind of going that way).
there will be no flying, embrace it and enjoy the opportunities it provides or deal with it and await 6.1.

[Tente]

I don't like the portals idea, they are useful under some circumstances (people waiting for someone far for example) but i undertand the game somehow needs the flight from an inmersion point of view.

[Falu]

Flying mounts isn't comparable to flight paths and flight masters.... the latter have a designated route and travel time, without the abillity to stray away from it, or have control over your mobillity at any point during the flight.
Flying mounts serve a completley different purpose.

In addition, since you scramble away a number of flight-related topics under one banner, it results in some confusion, and it can be infered that there are a number of issues to tackle and questions to answer, I will try to answer them all, but 1st let's establish some facts:
- There will be flight-masters that offer flying paths for a fee in WoD (on Draenor too).
- Flying mounts are not equivilant, and do not serve the same purpose as flying via route (as explained above), the two should not be adressed as a single feature, they are two different sub-categories of one topic (flying).

1. Do I support the removal of flying mounts controlled and owned by the player?
No, I do not.
However, I do support what they're doing in WoD: flying mounts locked for new content, untill that content is outdated by a following patch.

2. Do I support the removal of flight-masters and flight-routes?
No. Absoloutley not.

3. Do I support the replacement of flight-masters and flight-routes by portals, effectively eliminating the travel-time?
No. Absoloutley not.
On this, I shall expand:
- Portals make the world feel small, much smaller than what flying makes it feel, you will not get to experience this world, fly above it, wander at it's marvels etc. if all you'll be doing is portal hopping from one place to the other.
- Travelling in a world, should feel just like that: travelling... the removal of the time-penalty a travel requires just takes the "W" out of "World", essentially, WoW will no longer be the World of Warcraft, it will be more like Call of Duty, or other games, where u have a menu, and from that menu u just go in straight to a scenario, and once that's done back to the menu you go... no world...

I might aswell add, flying plays a part in Wacraft's lore aswell, it should remain aslong as it doesn't hurt the game, and for WoD, it seems to me like they've found that balance.

P.S, I don't think you know your audience, most people who support the removal of flying, support it so they can experience the world from a ground-mount point of view, and thus talk strictly about flying mounts..
Barely anyone is against the removal of flight-paths though... and if they are in favour of it to be replaced with portals, it's for convenience, which is the exact OPOSITE of the people who want flying gone.

[Deleted]

no,
and the removal of flying for any reason, including "herp a derp, we want you to experience the content till 6.1" is a bullshit excuse, and everyone knows it.

[Nekovivie]

Instant portals are even worse than flying mounts. "We'll take out a way of skipping content, then add another back in, that's even more convenient."

Sorry OP but this is a dumb idea.

[ComputerNerd]

no,
and the removal of flying for any reason, including "herp a derp, we want you to experience the content till 6.1" is a bullshit excuse, and everyone knows it.

The entire argument falls flat when they tell us its coming back in 6.1.
This dangerous region which they make a big fuss about, is then intentionally trivialised 1 tier later.
They are making flight paths more of a feature than they are now, not less.
Constantly contradicting themselves.
It will do nothing for World PvP, which was dying long before flying mounts.

World PvP was by choice, because it was fun.
Battlegrounds offered better rewards, and the players chose the shiny gear over fun.
Players killed World PvP, which is not the ganking, the only part that flying mounts had an impact on.
What about en-masse attacks on a city/town or quest hub ?
Flying can support that, both for the attackers and defenders.

[darkwarrior42]

Instant portals are even worse than flying mounts. "We'll take out a way of skipping content, then add another back in, that's even more convenient."

Sorry OP but this is a dumb idea.

Interesting... because from my perspective, it's the best of the both worlds.

By removing flying mounts, you remove the ability of players to bypass mobs or dangers to get to their destination. All roads must be followed, everything they seek to accomplish in 6.0 is accomplished, permanently.

However, flight paths offer no immersion, and no gameplay. They are a fixed duration time-sink and a fixed cost gold-sink that offers nothing of value until the time-sink is ended. I pay a gold fee, I alt-tab or walk away from my computer, when I come back I'm at my destination. All my system changes is the length of time involved.


My proposal doesn't allow players to skip anything that flight paths don't also allow you to skip. The only thing my proposal does is reduce the time required to travel by a means that is already fool-proof, free of all gameplay and danger, and already structured to serve only as a taxi service.

(Unless someone can explain why this is incorrect, I'm assuming that everyone who opposes the instant portals is therefore in favor of time sinks for the purpose of time sinks... and knowing that makes it easier to understand why those people are also in favor of removing flying everywhere.)

Edit: Or to put it another way, if my portal system is allowing players to break immersion and bypass content, how does the current flight path system not do the exact same thing?

[Deleted]

Look at Guild Wars 2, portals are great if placed strategically. You still have to follow the road as others have said if you want to get somewhere after you portal in the zone you want. And that gives the developers the freedom to organise events in many areas when they know you can just near the area really fast, so time will not be a hiindrance if you want to do many things like that.

[darkwarrior42]

Flying mounts isn't comparable to flight paths and flight masters.... the latter have a designated route and travel time, without the abillity to stray away from it, or have control over your mobillity at any point during the flight.
Flying mounts serve a completley different purpose.

*snip*

I understand they serve completely different purposes... I'm curious to see how many people are truly in favor of trying to increase true immersion and danger, and how many simply want time-sinks for the purpose of time-sinks.

Obviously, I disagree that flight paths make the world feel like a world. Perhaps for new players, but all they are to me is an excuse to alt-tab or go to the bathroom... and marveling at the wonders of the world is severely impeded when I cannot stop to go actually look at said wonders until after I land.

Edit: Have to go to work, will be back much later... have a good day all

[Nekovivie]

Edit: Or to put it another way, if my portal system is allowing players to break immersion and bypass content, how does the current flight path system not do the exact same thing?

It's more immersive to have time passing when you're moving from one area to another. If you need to go from say, Hyjal to Silithus, it's a journey. Journeys should take time, not just be one click, magic pop, you're there. I am aware mage portals follow that same one click, magic pop philosophy but you can't mage portal to every flight point in the world.

[RoKPaNda]

This subject and the constant debate about it has always both amazed and amused me greatly. Honestly I don't think I could go back to there being NO flying. I remember too well what it was like before flying mounts, I remember what it was like when normal flying mounts were slowwww and very few people actually had epic flight. It took forever to get anywhere, it wasn't a fun experience. And while the game is different now in that things are placed more conveniently (Running from Crossroads to RFK/RFD on a 60% mount. Ugh.) it's really not something that I'm looking forward to. Replacing flight paths with portals would be okay, but it still would be somewhat of an annoyance.

So why does the subject amuse/amaze me so? Before Blizzard stated that they didn't like some of the negative side effects (in their opinion) of flying mounts I guarantee you that nobody ever said "Damn I wish we could go back to not flying!" and now people are coming out of the woodwork saying that flying is bad for the game. I wonder how many people have actually tried doing older content or even current content on a ground mount 100% of the time where possible?

[Deleted]

Before Blizzard stated that they didn't like some of the negative side effects (in their opinion) of flying mounts I guarantee you that nobody ever said "Damn I wish we could go back to not flying!" and now people are coming out of the woodwork saying that flying is bad for the game.

You have a short memory. Ever since WotLK (probably even TBC) anti-flying threads have been showing up on a regular basis.

[Deleted]

theres no options for both flying AND instant portals

Or in my case, restricted flying and instant portals, probably with a short cooldown.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

There is a reason Blizz wants you to not have flying. So you see the world they actually created instead of just staring at the skybox and mountaintops all day.

Adding portals that instantly teleport you to every hub in the game is too much because, again, you aren't actually seeing any of the world.

[Denarius]

no,
and the removal of flying for any reason, including "herp a derp, we want you to experience the content till 6.1" is a bullshit excuse, and everyone knows it.

I don't see how removing flight til 6.1 is any different than waiting til 77 and 90 in wrath and mop. As has been said before, the only reason they didn't restrict it in cata is because it would feel wierd and they didn't want that "no fly zone" feel on Wingergrasp in Wrath. On topic though, removing flight, no. Making flight paths instant, Hell no. Terrible idea.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

I don't see how removing flight til 6.1 is any different than waiting til 77 and 90 in wrath and mop. As has been said before, the only reason they didn't restrict it in cata is because it would feel wierd and they didn't want that "no fly zone" feel on Wingergrasp in Wrath. On topic though, removing flight, no. Making flight paths instant, Hell no. Terrible idea.

I actually think the reason they're restricting it until 6.1 instead of the standard "until the level cap" is because of the new questing/gearing system they're using. Which will feature hidden chests like the Timeless Isle has. Obviously if you can fly around willy nilly (with an addon that beeps if a chest is nearby) then the whole idea of having rewards for exploration is dead in the water.

So in 6.1 when Farahlon is added, they can open the old 6.0 zones up to flying because everyone will be going to Farahlon for their gear instead.

[Shinrael]

I support no-flying till 6.1 but flying mounts look super cool ( pureblood firehawk thats you ) and I don't want them gone.
Instant portals instead of flight paths is absolute no for me. Sounds ridiculous. Can't believe someone came up with this when Blizzard is being torn apart by "this dumbed the game down" etc arguements.