No I think he's right. Unless I misunderstood something, he's basically just saying that unless dps play well a healer's job is disproportionately easy, and this is true. When it comes to healing, throughput isn't as complex as it is for dps. This means an average player can still put out decent numbers as a healer, and if the dps give them some breathing room by playing suboptimally it's just not that hard to keep up. Healing well is far more about awareness, reading opponents, and allocating cooldowns than pressing the actual healing spells.
That said, there are a couple dps classes that can put out damage pretty effortlessly too. Look at the damage e.g. a warrior can do just thoughtlessly mashing any combination of ms, overpower, and slam. Like a bad healer he'd have room to better optimize his throughput, but you can get pretty reasonable numbers with an actual skill level of zero.
Why dont you just reply "dont nerf me bro", you'd contribute more to the thread that way.
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I think I have seen this post already.
1. Attacks me based on the class I play.
2. Mentions random abilities as if they mean something (NO GOOD WARRIOR IS RUNNING DOUBLE TIME. FFS PEOPLE, IF YOU ARE GOING TO STUPIDLY LIST OUT ABILITIES TO MAKE A POINT AT LEAST GET THEM CORRECT).
3. Then blames the meta game while failing to see their roles overwhelming contribution to making it that way.
Yep you can scroll up and find the same cookie cutter response.
You want less instants, you want less stun and gun bursting people down in CC, then you want healers nerfed!, because the only way the game is even playable right now is because we can CC easily, because we can do ridiculous burst damage into CC, that goes and 3s would become like healer/dps 2s and 2s would time out every time a healer team is there.
When you see someone in a thread making the same canned responses over and over, click their name, click view forum posts, and see if they are a troll. Then don't feed them."Gamer" is not a bad word. I identify as a gamer. When calling out those who persecute and harass, the word you're looking for is "asshole." @_DonAdams
I'm not saying they're balanced, I'm saying they're fun, from my point of view anyway.
Healers in World PvP I feel should be powerful, we have generally got to deal with ~4+ people trying to kill us, it's very rarely a 1 v 1, and we have very little DPS throughput, compared to pure DPS classes.
Allowing us to actually have a chance is a good thing. In Arena, Battlegrounds and Rated Battlegrounds, sure, it can be a pain, but that's where Team Work and dedication come into play. Everyone, even Healers have their weaknesses, so you learn them, and as a team you build tactics around them. In World PvP, it's literally just a clusterfuck of death going on, and I hate the idea of just having to take it because I'm a Healer.
I've healed some serious shit before, I've out healed (and solo healed) some of the most bad ass bosses of all times. I'm sure not as hell about to be put down by some Alliance scrublord.
The only tactic to deal with a healer who can outheal 4 dps is to burst someone down in instant CC, which is what high end arena does today, and which is almost universally despised, even by healers who hate getting gunned down in the stun but wont admit being able to outheal 2+ dps is a problem.
When you see someone in a thread making the same canned responses over and over, click their name, click view forum posts, and see if they are a troll. Then don't feed them."Gamer" is not a bad word. I identify as a gamer. When calling out those who persecute and harass, the word you're looking for is "asshole." @_DonAdams
Being able to out-heal 2 DPS isn't a problem because that is what we face day to day. You'll rarely (if ever) find a situation where a Healer is put up against a DPS. When it does happen, chances are the DPS will give up, but at least they can win, most Healers (Mistweavers, as an exception), rarely do any decent throughput outside of their huge cooldowns.
Healing is all about being able to handle the damage coming in, and when you have a 3 v 3 game, you need to have it so Healers can handle more then one DPS. Unless you're happy with the game being entirely balanced around 1 v 1, which I can assure you will be vile and catastrophic, Healers are generally going to be this way for a long time.
I agree, a DPS should be able to take down a Healer, but in 1 v 1, I disagree. It should take ~3 DPS to kill a Healer, that's our job, to Heal. If you make it possible that it can be countered by a single person, what value does a Healer bring to the team?
Also, remember, out of 100% of the playerbase, how many are Healers? All combat is based around 70% DPS, 20% Healers & 10% Tanks (Generally speaking (Dungeons, 1 Healer, 1 Tank, 3 DPS, Raids 2 Tanks, 2 Healers, 6 DPS, etc...)), that 20% needs to be able to sustain that 70%, otherwise they're worthless.
The game isn't balanced around 1v1. And healers do die if they play bad. I can assure you that most people here would kill me as a healer since I'm really bad at it. :I And honestly, DPS is even worse, many of them do insane damage AND insane healing lol.
When you see someone in a thread making the same canned responses over and over, click their name, click view forum posts, and see if they are a troll. Then don't feed them."Gamer" is not a bad word. I identify as a gamer. When calling out those who persecute and harass, the word you're looking for is "asshole." @_DonAdams
Why nerf the healers that are keeping you alive? Ain't that kinda stupid?
There was no major flaw to it in TBC and Wrath when it was very hard but doable, as opposed to now when its just a joke as the healer easily dwarfs dps output and never ooms .
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They are also keeping my enemy alive, DUH.
When you see someone in a thread making the same canned responses over and over, click their name, click view forum posts, and see if they are a troll. Then don't feed them."Gamer" is not a bad word. I identify as a gamer. When calling out those who persecute and harass, the word you're looking for is "asshole." @_DonAdams
This is so dps biased, its like u're screaming "boost me bro".
Let's start from the beginning:
Dps are dealing to much damage --> need stronger heals --> heals are strong, need way to stop them: more CCs --> heals have to be even stronger to sustain the frequent shut downs: instant heals improved, casted heals become huge --> need more damage --> damage need to be stpped: more defenive CD and escaping tools --> need more CC! ---> too much damage outside defensive's : need even mre heals! -->and so on...
This is not a DPS issue: Arenas are frustrating for healers because of the many CCs chains; melee trains can't let u get a single cast: DPS arena can be frustrating, u played as good as u could with CCs silences and interrupts but a single heal passed ---> kill target topped off; several minutes of arena wasted.
There are a lot of things to tune down TOGETHER with healing: reduce instant CCs, spellocks/silences. Reduce DPS OFF HEALS, reduce burst damage.
Untill then JUST U PRAY things do not change else u would be here whining because arenas are just a matter of stacking offensive CD and blowing off the first thing in range.
That is exactly what arena is right now. Its just waiting for CDs to come up, hitting your instant CC buttons and hoping you force enough CDs from them that you can get a kill next time they are up.because arenas are just a matter of stacking offensive CD and blowing off the first thing in range.
Why because everything between the cooldowns ceased to matter when healers were given the throughput to cancel out the dps and the mana regen to never oom.
When you see someone in a thread making the same canned responses over and over, click their name, click view forum posts, and see if they are a troll. Then don't feed them."Gamer" is not a bad word. I identify as a gamer. When calling out those who persecute and harass, the word you're looking for is "asshole." @_DonAdams
On the contrary, for it to work in TBC the healer had to be really OP in other ways to make up for the fact that it was so flawed. You needed things like resto druids in TBC otherwise a rogue would curb stomp your healer in seconds. In fact, that's what really pushed us in this direction in the first place. You're arguing that burst and cc is out of control because healers became too hard to kill, but your solution is to go back to the design that pushed us to make healers harder to kill. That's just going to repeat the cycle. I agree that there are problems, but you don't know how to solve them.
Can someone translate this? So healers making sustained damage pointless has nothing to do with healers, its how the classes were designed for mop... WTF.
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Name the ways they had to be OP? We have resto druids now, they have pretty much everything they had in TBC, + a lot more, and they can outheal the sustained damage of mulitple dps, which they couldnt do in TBC.
And what is this cycle argument? If Blizzard makes healing throughput more evenly matched with DPS they will somehow enter a cycle of buffing up healers? The design did not push healers to be hard to kill, the developers pushed that, and the developers dont have to again.
When you see someone in a thread making the same canned responses over and over, click their name, click view forum posts, and see if they are a troll. Then don't feed them."Gamer" is not a bad word. I identify as a gamer. When calling out those who persecute and harass, the word you're looking for is "asshole." @_DonAdams
I've long thought that there needs to be a lot more stamina in pvp and a bit less spirit. The idea being to create a situation where someone at less that 100% health isn't in danger of immediate death. Let winning be slow.
N it is not, u said it urself:
hitting your instant CC buttons
hoping you force enough CDs from them
you can get a kill next time they are up
You broke down all the 4 problems:
- too many instants that can be almost mindlessy chained
- too many way-too-strong defensives
- Not enough kill-windows: too much reliance on burst driven by OP offensive CDs.
- Too much healing to compensate the 3 above.
Let's remove the healing and here's ur arenas:
Mage + war VS Mage + war
2x Mage + War + vs 2x Mage + War.
TOTALLY BETTER.
No, clearly, Healers alone is not the issue; seriously, this is so obvious i feel a moron even discussing it.