6.0 Mage Speculation & Paranoia

[Kapadons]

Who know maybe they will bring back management since our mana is capped.
Another note Mage table was designed has a group "buff" that started in BC. So that group could fill up there mana and health after a pool or wipe real quick. As stands now nobody use them or needs them. I'm simply trying use for them. What's point of having a raid table that is useless?


And who cares if like skull banner, storm lash or whatever. The point is that buffs the group and it's useful. Why do you hate having something that the raid wants and that is he general good for the group? I love skull banner, health stones, lock portals, storm lash and lust. It gives the classes utility and brings some to the raid. Do you hate all of these? Should we just remove them all? Or how about we jump on wagon and get something cool. Or just keep a useless spell in our spell book.

I get what your saying. Mages need to bring more utility to a raid. But they've never been a raid utility class. The only fight you HAD to bring a mage to was High King in BC for spellsteal. You brought mages cause they brought damage. Alot of it. In any way you needed it. Burst, sustained or AOE. I personally prefer this style for a mage and let the other classes fill in the raid utility. As far as personal utility in a raid, we have a lot of it.

I would be more on board with your mage table buff if it was the same thing as a healthstone. As you said, in high level raiding a heathstone is extremely useful. No reason to put that on one class when it could easily make sense to add it to a mage table. But with them moving to flex style normal and heroic and 20 man fixed Mythic, the chances of you having a Warlock only go up. I don't see them adding that to mages with their new goals for raiding.

[Polarthief]

We're mages. We give no shits about mana in general. What about the rogue, hunter, DK, warrior? 10 of their resources is a fair amount. Healthstones can be made up with healing better or out-gearing the encounter. Free energy? That's free DPS, and we'd be secured a spot in any raid that gave a damn about DPS. It's just as bad as stormlash and skull banner.

This is why I'd push for a raid-wide Manawell (Mana Gems). The ONLY spec in the game that gets more DPS from having more Mana is Arcane, and Arcane, being a Mage spec, already has access to Mana Gems, so that doesn't affect raid-wide utility at all. Manawell would be arguably worse because it only gives a benefit to Healers, which will indirectly increase the amount of healing they can do on a fight, should mana ever become an issue.

At the very least, they'd be giving us some form of unique utility outside of Time Warp, which is already shared with 2 other classes and bringing more of them doesn't really do much.

Cause everyone would be -500?

If up/downvoting a post would only be unlocked to people with 500+ posts, it wouldn't be.

Or just remove downvoting entirely, but keep liking locked to people with at least 100+ posts (to avoid bots/abuse in mass upvoting a post)

[Woop Woop]

Making mage table into something useful, yes please.
How about it gave some sort of buff? Like the intellect food/noodles, except it doesn't replace it?
What kind of buff would be cool but balanced? Or what do yo think should change for us to be more wanted in raids?

[Kapadons]

Here is hoping they change Combustion. Having our only DPS CD be reliant on needing both trinkets to proc, AT off CD, THEN a good string of crits just to make our DPS CD worth a piss is annoying.

[Orrin]

Here is hoping they change Combustion. Having our only DPS CD be reliant on needing both trinkets to proc, AT off CD, THEN a good string of crits just to make our DPS CD worth a piss is annoying.

Combustion right now is the only mechanic in Fire that make it different form Frost, other then that Fire is like Frost. We know that Blizz will remove DoT snapshotting from almost all DoTs, but we don't know if they will remove it from Combustion. I think not or Blizzard will need to redesign Fire spec yet again to be different from other Mage specs

[mrgreenthump]

Consistency and difficulty in this particular case aren't mutually exclusive. By making Alter Time "more consistent" in your words, you would be making the class easier. You can try and argue that point all you want, but that's the cold, hard truth right there.

That is assuming the mechanic stays the same. Something can be consistent and really hard to pull off optimally at the same time. It's near impossible with the current Mage specs though :P

[Mastamage]

-snip-

Tbh, I find AT to be just another button to push and while it is a risk and reward spell it's gotten more and more boring since its introduction. If you have a cancelaura macro, which I'm assuming we all do, then it becomes easy when and when not to use it especially with the caliber of players participating here.

Fire was the only spec where it felt fun at the beginning of the expansion but that was namely because Combustion was broken and led to hugely inflated numbers after an AT. I personally use it as a utility spell if needed, aside from the opener. That excites me more than capturing a ton of procs 3+ minutes into the fight.

Know that I don't want the spell gone since we're the only class with something like this, and it would beat our identity to shit, but rather I want tweaks.

And I'm hoping that come WoD our rotations aren't boring as hell and maybe, just maybe, I'll view AT as something than just a button.

[Deleted]

That is assuming the mechanic stays the same. Something can be consistent and really hard to pull off optimally at the same time. It's near impossible with the current Mage specs though :P

Agreed, but in this scenario consistent would have meant easier.

Tbh, I find AT to be just another button to push and while it is a risk and reward spell it's gotten more and more boring since its introduction. If you have a cancelaura macro, which I'm assuming we all do, then it becomes easy when and when not to use it especially with the caliber of players participating here.

Fire was the only spec where it felt fun at the beginning of the expansion but that was namely because Combustion was broken and led to hugely inflated numbers after an AT. I personally use it as a utility spell if needed, aside from the opener. That excites me more than capturing a ton of procs 3+ minutes into the fight.

Know that I don't want the spell gone since we're the only class with something like this, and it would beat our identity to shit, but rather I want tweaks.

And I'm hoping that come WoD our rotations aren't boring as hell and maybe, just maybe, I'll view AT as something than just a button.

Another button to push is still more complex than not having an extra button to push, especially when it can have such a large impact on DPS
But, yes, you're correct. I do want tweaks, but certainly would hate to see it removed completely. It just needs a few small QoL adjustments.

RE WoD rotations; I wouldn't hold your breath on that. Would require a mini-rework at least for our rotations to change drastically, and this has already been confirmed as not happening, so yeah.

[Mastamage]

RE WoD rotations; I wouldn't hold your breath on that. Would require a mini-rework at least for our rotations to change drastically, and this has already been confirmed as not happening, so yeah.

I'd like to see our AOE spells back in the mix, when appropriate. With multi-dotting gone it might happen.

[Kapadons]

Combustion right now is the only mechanic in Fire that make it different form Frost, other then that Fire is like Frost. We know that Blizz will remove DoT snapshotting from almost all DoTs, but we don't know if they will remove it from Combustion. I think not or Blizzard will need to redesign Fire spec yet again to be different from other Mage specs

I'd personally like to see it be a 100% crit chance for 10-15 seconds on a 2-3 min CD.

The main issue I have with it is the sheer amount of things you need to go right before it becomes OP like it was in ToT.

I already mentioned the trinkets,AT and crit string needed but you also need to have the mobs be close enough together that you can spread it then hope they live long enough for it to tick all the way. It is just too much RNG for one spell to need to be truly good. It also is too highly rewarding or too damaging if done right or wrong.

Reason I brought this up is H Garrosh progression. I have to build and use a combustion super fast on the first wave or they die before it gets a chance to tick halfway thru. Raid wants us to save some CDs for second wave of adds but it really isn't worth if for fire cause your combustion will be shit without the trinket procs. They also want us to have a CD to use on the Jade Serpent temple adds so they die fast. I don't have enough time to build a solid combustion to make it worth it DPS wise, and I have to use it on the middle add just to hope it will spread to others. Then if I do get it off, it only ticks for about 8 seconds before they die. As a DPS CD on this fight, it really just kind of sucks in offering the burst when you need it.

Frost gets a haste CD and Arcane gets a damage CD. Both of which are perfect for on-demand burst in these types of scenarios. At the risk of making us more like Frost, I think making it a 100% or just increased crit CD gives us this on-demand burst while still tying in to opener.


Or they could simply find a way to stop Combustion synergy with AT and then buff combustion to still be potent after a few big pyro crits.

[rjparker1]

Am I the only one tho thinks Focusing Crystal is overpowered?

It's not OP... the way I see it, you have to stand still long enough for the effects to trigger, they will simply move bosses around (which is what they are doing more and more in SoO and probably moreso in WoD).

In order for it to be truly useful means you have to be good at predicting where the bosses might be when and if it procs.. I don't see it being OP simply because it requires a static placement.

[Obelisk Kai]

Bit of a thought about our level 90 talents.

Well, one. Rune of Power.

Out of all of them, Rune of Power could be salvaged. Leaving aside the other two which I feel cannot be saved, would any of you be surprised to see Rune of Power repurposed as some sort of DPS cooldown?

[Orrin]

Out of all of them, Rune of Power could be salvaged. Leaving aside the other two which I feel cannot be saved, would any of you be surprised to see Rune of Power repurposed as some sort of DPS cooldown?

No. I hate every spell that requires me to stop pushing buttons and start targeting something tiny on a screen with passion. If I wanted this I would play Call of Duty or something like that.

[Dissemoen]

It's not OP... the way I see it, you have to stand still long enough for the effects to trigger, they will simply move bosses around (which is what they are doing more and more in SoO and probably moreso in WoD).

In order for it to be truly useful means you have to be good at predicting where the bosses might be when and if it procs.. I don't see it being OP simply because it requires a static placement.

Well, look at the SoO bosses, theres quite a few bosses where you dont move the boss at all. Immersus, Norushen, Sha, Iron Juggernaut, Malkorok, Siegecrafter(most of the part).

[Kuni Zyrekai]

Also, Hi Kuni.

I want it noted that I'm blind. Hi.

Or they could simply find a way to stop Combustion synergy with AT and then buff combustion to still be potent after a few big pyro crits.

Assuming they don't change fire from crit reliance to say, multistrike, I could see them doing exactly that. There have been tweets in the past that they don't like how AT/PoM works with fire. There's now a recent tweet saying they're doing something with AT. I could see AT disappearing, or at least going as a talent option. I don't think PoM will exist in WoD at all. It's limited to fire for PVE, and it causes instant CC in PVP, something they want to get rid of. If you remove the ability for fire to stack a dozen cooldowns into combustion's damage, it would be buffed back up.

Leaving aside the other two which I feel cannot be saved, would any of you be surprised to see Rune of Power repurposed as some sort of DPS cooldown?

Not in the slightest. I think it'd be a creative use of the mechanic. I still like the idea of RoP, I just don't enjoy the implementation in the slightest. Having it exist for ~20 seconds or so as a cooldown option would be pretty awesome. I think they could salvage it, and maybe retune MI, and some third option as a DPS CD talent line to replace the current 90s.

[mrgreenthump]

Bit of a thought about our level 90 talents.

Well, one. Rune of Power.

Out of all of them, Rune of Power could be salvaged. Leaving aside the other two which I feel cannot be saved, would any of you be surprised to see Rune of Power repurposed as some sort of DPS cooldown?

Only way I see it being salvaged is for it to not require player input every single freaking time you have to move out of it.. Maybe have it as a sort of cast(or be a passive) a buff on yourself that everytime you haven't moved for ~3 seconds you gain a Rune of Power under your feet. That way the core of the spell is still there, but you wouldn't need to cast it all the time, given it would be freaking nightmare on frequent movement fights, when comparing to the 8 yard radius on cast RoP.

- - - Updated - - -

Assuming they don't change fire from crit reliance to say, multistrike, I could see them doing exactly that. There have been tweets in the past that they don't like how AT/PoM works with fire. There's now a recent tweet saying they're doing something with AT. I could see AT disappearing, or at least going as a talent option. I don't think PoM will exist in WoD at all. It's limited to fire for PVE, and it causes instant CC in PVP, something they want to get rid of. If you remove the ability for fire to stack a dozen cooldowns into combustion's damage, it would be buffed back up.

From what I've picked up, they don't like us using AT purely for DPS gain. They want us to use it in creative ways on fights to make the class more fun, rather than just another DPS cooldown. And I'm willing to agree with that.. AT could be an awesome spell if we would use it for something else than DPS gain, it's hard to make all encounters to have a mechanic that AT would work with, but it's not like we have to use it all the time anyways. Plus if it's not related to DPS, the cooldown could be lowered quite a bit.

[Kuni Zyrekai]

From what I've picked up, they don't like us using AT purely for DPS gain. They want us to use it in creative ways on fights to make the class more fun, rather than just another DPS cooldown. And I'm willing to agree with that.. AT could be an awesome spell if we would use it for something else than DPS gain, it's hard to make all encounters to have a mechanic that AT would work with, but it's not like we have to use it all the time anyways. Plus if it's not related to DPS, the cooldown could be lowered quite a bit.

Yeah, I agree with it too. I'm a bit sad that we'd lose the DPS aspect of it, but it does need to go. I could see it, RoF, and some other self-utility ability sit on a talent line, probs replacing level 30. Just have it work with debuffs/location/health. It'd be a pretty nice option.

[Obelisk Kai]

Not in the slightest. I think it'd be a creative use of the mechanic. I still like the idea of RoP, I just don't enjoy the implementation in the slightest. Having it exist for ~20 seconds or so as a cooldown option would be pretty awesome. I think they could salvage it, and maybe retune MI, and some third option as a DPS CD talent line to replace the current 90s.

Mirror Image is a spell screaming for some sort of talent modification. Think of all the interesting possibilities.

[Constraint]

I like them, as do many others. Those who are unhappy are just always the loudest, I'm not going to go on the forums to capslock rave about how content I am

*Shrugs*. I haven't been vocal about them at all - but if they stay the way they are, I'm not touching my Mage (current main) in WoD beyond the leveling process. They are not in the slightest fun (to me), just a drag, interfere with the pacing of the playstyle. They don't add skill, or a thought process, it's just tedious. Again, to me.

Could you say the reverse? That you wouldn't continue to play your Mage as your main if they removed them? Curious.

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Some Mesmer-like (from Guild Wars 2 illusions) mechanics for Mirror Images would be amazing. Switching spots with your images etc.

[voltaa]

Could you say the reverse? That you wouldn't continue to play your Mage as your main if they removed them? Curious.

No I couldn't say that, though using that as an argument isn't really relevant. Even if I didn't like the talents (which I didn't at first) I wouldn't reroll because that's just not the type of person I am, I stick things out. Really if anything were to be the thing that would "make me quit" it's the removal of mulitdot, one of my favorite new dynamics to mages this expansion.

Mirror Image is a spell screaming for some sort of talent modification. Think of all the interesting possibilities.

I like this idea, but I'm not really sure where they would take it, if we had an entire tier of talents based around MI how much could they really do with it?