Dungeon loot restriction - 5 man heroics

[Aquamonkey]

How? How can you prevent ninja-looter from doing it? Blizzard has done absolutely everything to protect this people from being punished somehow. You can't kick him, you can't leave group.

Why can't you kick them? Why can't you leave group?

You can block them and never get them in a random group again.

Form a premade group? Sorry, but this turns loot system into masterloot. Telling "Form premade group" = "Need before greed loot system is not working - use masterloot instead". And you can't deal with it. 10-12% item droprate is ok. But every Nth extra ninja-looter divides this droprate by N+1, which turns item, you need, into several percent droprate rare drop, you'll have to spend a month to get. Sorry. But this is not our problem, cuz there is no way for us to solve it - it's devs' problem.

No, it's not working FOR YOU. There's a difference. They didn't steal anything from you. They had the exact same chance of winning as you did.

[Socialhealer]

oh noes ma 463 blues....not like timeless isle is around 50 times faster for gearing up while getting 33 more ilvls...

[Deleted]

Why can't you kick them? Why can't you leave group?

You can block them and never get them in a random group again.


No, it's not working FOR YOU. There's a difference. They didn't steal anything from you. They had the exact same chance of winning as you did.

You can kick ninjalooters, but I thought it was about discussing whether someone needing on something for his off-spec was even a ninjalooter?

[Aquamonkey]

You can kick ninjalooters, but I thought it was about discussing whether someone needing on something for his off-spec was even a ninjalooter?

If you don't like how they are playing, kick them. You can vote to kick anyone for any reason, even if what they are doing doesn't break any rules. People have the right to choose not to play with someone.

[Deleted]

If you don't like how they are playing, kick them. You can vote to kick anyone for any reason, even if what they are doing doesn't break any rules. People have the right to choose not to play with someone.

That is beside the point.

[AVPaul]

Why can't you kick them? Why can't you leave group?

You can block them and never get them in a random group again.


No, it's not working FOR YOU. There's a difference. They didn't steal anything from you. They had the exact same chance of winning as you did.

Ninja-looter ninjaing not only in your group, but also in many previous groups. That means he has already been kicked some times before and after 2-3 kicks Blizzard grants them absolute anti-kick protection. May be you could kick them even in this case, but only is you haven't kicked smb/left instance for a long time already. And this is just impossible for average player: if you're playing regularly, then you have to kick/leave often enough not to have kick-bonus. Anyway, almost every party has ninja-looter today, cuz "Need everything you can" mindset is very widespread. Enchanters for example think, that fact, that they have this profession grants them priority to use "Need" button instead of "DE" button, which is intended to be used in this case. So, you just can't kick every ninja-looter and they perfectly know this. And you can't leave, cuz leaving = punishing yourself, not ninja-looter. Ppl in instance have priority to get replacement, if someone will left. Even if you're tank, they'll find replacement almost immediately and you'll have deserter most likely. And about stealing items. The main problem with current loot system - is that droprate of item you need depends on other players very drastically. And it's just wrong. Item itself has low enough droprate to make you do about 20-30 trys, if you are unlucky. But it's so weird to know, that your chance to get this item in reasonable amount of time depends on some freaking ninja-looter. That his wish to get some extra stupid gold coins will take this item away from you for another undetermined amount of time. It's very frustrating to recognize, that some other player has some sort of power to determine your destiny. 10-12% - is intended drop-rate (i.e. obtain-rate) for items in LFD. Ninjas lower this drop-rate to unreasonable 2-4%. This just shouldn't happen.

P. S. I don't understand. What the purpose for debating about current loot system being wrong or right and prove something, if this system is already proven to be wrong, devs admitted it and given all arguments, why current system is wrong? It automatically makes all your arguments pointless.

P. P. S. It looks like you don't even know, how vote-kick system it currently working. I don't want to explain it for you. Also you don't know, or pretending, that you don't know, that "Need before greed" system is already proven to be wrong and all arguments are already given. It's not our problem - it's your problem, that you still don't know about it. I don't want to explain or prove it to everybody - you should find preMOP blueposts by yourself.

P. P. P. S. Why should I use search to find information for you?
Commont information about loot + commonly used loot rules
Who is ninja-looter?
How vote-kick works? (Dunno why, but information is obsolete and I can't find most recent one)
Info about personal loot

[minro]

Is it me or is it obvious that the people who are defending the need button are those same people that need everything? I don't think it's me.

1. Blizz realizes that it's a problem
2. They don't want to deal with 8 million tickets on a monthly basis from douchebags hitting need on everything because they want the damn gold, so they put a "We aren't responsible for the dingleberries" blue post out there that all of the said dingleberries use to justify their douchyness.

I don't normally post on anything, but this is just ridiculous. Just like every one of these posts that have popped up in the last X amount of years, "Just because the need button is there, doesn't mean you have to hit it." That's the issue: self-entitlement + anonymity + internet + games = berries of the dingle persuasion.

[AVPaul]

Is it me or is it obvious that the people who are defending the need button are those same people that need everything? I don't think it's me.

1. Blizz realizes that it's a problem
2. They don't want to deal with 8 million tickets on a monthly basis from douchebags hitting need on everything because they want the damn gold, so they put a "We aren't responsible for the dingleberries" blue post out there that all of the said dingleberries use to justify their douchyness.

I don't normally post on anything, but this is just ridiculous. Just like every one of these posts that have popped up in the last X amount of years, "Just because the need button is there, doesn't mean you have to hit it." That's the issue: self-entitlement + anonymity + internet + games = berries of the dingle persuasion.

Ahhh... Yeah, now I understand - it's some kind of self-justification.

[Aquamonkey]

That's the issue: self-entitlement + anonymity + internet + games = berries of the dingle persuasion.

As opposed to the self-entitlement of people who believe the gear was stolen from them when it was never theirs to begin with?

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Did you not read it all or you really trying to troll???

It says Now pay attion to the bolded part. In the case of LFD in WOW the deciding factor is not the party itself but the loot system inplace and its the Need/Greed System. Therefor if someone is able to roll need on a item its not Ninja Looting.

From the underlined part all the way to the end it is meaning if someone like myself looted all the items after a kill and didn't not give them out based on the decision of the group. This is one of the reasons why people don't like the ML system because whoever is ML is in charge of loot and its rules.

The Party agree's to use the Need/Greed system each time they do a LFD therefor if a hunter rolls need on a str ring and wins he did not ninja loot since the whole group agreed to the Need/Greed System by default.

Don't like the Need/Greed system make a 5 man and go to the dungeon yourself.

If you are going to use a Quote use the whole dam thing not just the part that fits your argument.

False. Your ideas are directly contradicted by Blizzards own actions. Since LFD has been implemented, Blizzard has changed the looting rules to battle loot ninjas and loot system abuse. Thats all the proof you need. If there wasn't a problem, Blizzard would be doing nothing.

I used the whole relevant quote. What you have shown hasn;t changed anything.

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As opposed to the self-entitlement of people who believe the gear was stolen from them when it was never theirs to begin with?

I haven't even mentioned anyone "stealing" loot from me. We are talking about ninjas in general, and the problem they cause. You are of course, poorly defending them with misconceptions.

Again, Blizzard DOES NOT CONTROL WHAT A TERM MEANS, ESPECIALLY SINCE THE TERM IS PRE-WOW.

[Aquamonkey]

I haven't even mentioned anyone "stealing" loot from me. We are talking about ninjas in general, and the problem they cause. You are of course, poorly defending them with misconceptions.

So if ninjaing isn't stealing, then what's the problem?

Again, Blizzard DOES NOT CONTROL WHAT A TERM MEANS, ESPECIALLY SINCE THE TERM IS PRE-WOW.

...And the term, as defined from its pre-wow origins, was hard-coded out of the game.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

So if ninjaing isn't stealing, then what's the problem?


...And the term, as defined from its pre-wow origins, was hard-coded out of the game.

Well, no, Blizzard is still changing how looting works. They are doing that for a reason. For instance, they just recently removed the option to "need" on lockboxes in ToT or HoF I think. Why do you think that is?

My line on stealing was to combat your line on entitlement. I don't think there are many sob stories of "ninjas stole MY loot!" here.

[Aquamonkey]

Well, no, Blizzard is still changing how looting works. They are doing that for a reason. For instance, they just recently removed the option to "need" on lockboxes in ToT or HoF I think. Why do you think that is?

Just because Blizzard changes the loot system doesn't mean it was ninjaing.

My line on stealing was to combat your line on entitlement. I don't think there are many sob stories of "ninjas stole MY loot!" here.

I guess the OP saying someone should die in a car accident for rolling against him doesn't count?

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Just because Blizzard changes the loot system doesn't mean it was ninjaing.


I guess the OP saying someone should die in a car accident for rolling against him doesn't count?

I said "many." The person you quoted with your "entitlement" crap also didn't have a sob story.

Blizzard is changing the loot system for a reason. They AREN'T doing it for fun. Its because of abuse and ninjaing. Its also why they recently made blues+purples bind to you when you need on them; So people couldn't ninja them and sell them on the AH anymore.

Again, Blizzard doesn't dictate word meanings.

[Aquamonkey]

I said "many." The person you quoted with your "entitlement" crap also didn't have a sob story.

The person I quoted brought up self-entitlement. Whether someone is "needing" for gold, OS, DE, transmog, RP, giving their buddy an extra roll, or upgrade, all sides of the situation are self-entitled because they view their "need" as greater than the other people.

Blizzard is changing the loot system for a reason. They AREN'T doing it for fun. Its because of abuse and ninjaing. Its also why they recently made blues+purples bind to you when you need on them; So people couldn't ninja them and sell them on the AH anymore.

Again, Blizzard doesn't dictate word meanings.

And Blizzard was going by the original definition from before WoW was released. That's how they define "ninjaing" as it pertains to their game. The population just misused the term in situations that weren't technically ninjaing. It's like a legal document, you have to clearly and specifically define terms so that things are appropriately actionable. "Ninja" is used on such a broad scale by people that it can mean all sorts of things, from scams, to actual ninjaing, to simple loot disputes.

[Deleted]

As it has been stated - if you can do a need roll on an item, then it is not ninjaing.

Really? Is there a quote/source on that?

Because if so, then it's stupid as fuck. When I was lvling up my hunter/druid I could roll on pretty much anything... :|

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

The person I quoted brought up self-entitlement. Whether someone is "needing" for gold, OS, DE, transmog, RP, giving their buddy an extra roll, or upgrade, all sides of the situation are self-entitled because they view their "need" as greater than the other people.


And Blizzard was going by the original definition from before WoW was released. That's how they define "ninjaing" as it pertains to their game. The population just misused the term in situations that weren't technically ninjaing. It's like a legal document, you have to clearly and specifically define terms so that things are appropriately actionable. "Ninja" is used on such a broad scale by people that it can mean all sorts of things, from scams, to actual ninjaing, to simple loot disputes.

You're aware words do change? And no, I've never heard it used strictly to how Blizzard is conveniently using it. Again, they are taking these actions to solve problems occurring from ninjas and loot system abuses. Simple as that. Its not against the ToS, but that doesn't really matter here.

[Aquamonkey]

Really? Is there a quote/source on that?

Because if so, then it's stupid as fuck. When I was lvling up my hunter/druid I could roll on pretty much anything... :|

In my sig.

- - - Updated - - -

You're aware words do change? And no, I've never heard it used strictly to how Blizzard is conveniently using it. Again, they are taking these actions to solve problems occurring from ninjas and loot system abuses. Simple as that. Its not against the ToS, but that doesn't really matter here.

There is a difference between a legal definition and how a word is used colloquially. People will call "ninja" on pmuch anything they disagree with regarding loot even if it is legitimate.

[drakolatter]

Wasn't there a system in place I think around 4.1 or 4.2 when ZA and ZG came back, that if you needed on an item that you clearly needed (for your current spec) and that if someone else needed on it, that it would prioritize the person in the correct spec? I guess with Loot Spec that would have gone away anyways. I could have sworn that was a thing though.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

There is a difference between a legal definition and how a word is used colloquially. People will call "ninja" on pmuch anything they disagree with regarding loot even if it is legitimate.

But its been defined. Blizzard cherry picking what their definition means isn't a fix to a problem. Especially since their own actions don't imitate their statements. They have been fixing the ninja issue every since LFD, and then worked harder on it since LFR came out.

None of the links I posted said "Anything you dislike can be called a ninja."