0.23% of Players Defeated Heroic Garrosh

[wych]

LFR exists and is necessary because the community makes it so.
Pugs used to be way more flexible, now only with the introduction of flexible sizing are they getting remotely back to how they used to be.
Many people are stuck in LFR because they cannot break into traditional raiding due to the organisational requirements, the need to commit to the times that someone else dictates as being acceptable.

LFR is not "seeing the content", as you are inferring.
Otherwise why would you or anyone else raid anything else.
The very fact that people DO raid flex, DO raid normal, DO raid heroic proves that argument wrong.
Simple as that.

LFR is only necessary because Blizzard operate under the false assumption that everybody who isn't a PvPer WANTS to raid every week for tier gear.

[cFortyfive]

It's also about quality of content.

Lots of people don't want to collect every achievement in the game or do 10000 pet battles and collect every pet.

Say Blizzard add an achievement which is killing 100000000 million mobs, would people be stupid to whine about no content then because they haven't completed everything?

Yeah maybe they wouldn't but not even the whole playerbase has completed lfr. Or probably not every active account has even a lvl 90. The point is that there is plenty content for people logging in once a week for 2 hours and don't pretend that there are only achievements and pets.

[wych]

Yeah maybe they wouldn't but not even the whole playerbase has completed lfr. Or probably not every active account has even a lvl 90. The point is that there is plenty content for people logging in once a week for 2 hours and don't pretend that there are only achievements and pets.

Yes but the point is that there's a massive amount of people who aren't in either the "2 hours a week" or "raid hardcore heroics multiple nights a week" camp.

Lots of players simply don't want to raid, especially organised raiding, this has been a fact since Vanilla WoW.

Let's take me for example, I no longer take on organised raiding, i've cleared every raid on some difficulty, completed the 5.1 and 5.2 storylines, done brawler's guild and beat every pet trainer in the game. There's really not too much max level content for me anymore and i'm willing to bet there's a lot of people in my boat, who're just quitting until WoD

[Dreknar20]

Yeah maybe they wouldn't but not even the whole playerbase has completed lfr. Or probably not every active account has even a lvl 90. The point is that there is plenty content for people logging in once a week for 2 hours and don't pretend that there are only achievements and pets.

think GC said that once
How the 'majority' of players are not even at max level, how the way they learn of a new x-pac is they log in one day and "holy jeezus shit everythings different!"

[Raeln]

I wonder what the % would right before the 6.0 patch though. I cant see it being that much higher. I personally dont mind NOT seeing the end boss of a tier when its current. even if LFR didnt show it (like that would ever happen) I do think heroic kills should have a wider audience. it dosent seem very effective to only have such a small amount of people go through it before it becomes obsolete.

Not as much as you think, progression raiding takes a nose-dive the closer to the next expansion you get. Many peeps go into "take a break mode" a couple months and weeks before the next expansion.

[Osmeric]

think GC said that once
How the 'majority' of players are not even at max level, how the way they learn of a new x-pac is they log in one day and "holy jeezus shit everythings different!"

Hey, mods! With your armory-fu you can now test if this is correct. Do most players in fact not have a lvl 90?

[Deleted]

But I thought raiding in TBC and vanilla was supposed to be harder than in MoP? What is this? My brain....can't handle...

Relatively more skilled and definately more committed playerbase back then. No tourist modes either.

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Blizzard could tune a boss so difficult only 25 could kill it, if that - yet, what's the point? If it's unbeatable, then it has no draw.

In my experience it can have draw outside the game. Gamers who have not played mmo's more often than not find it cool that there are bosses so hard that they haven't been killed yet and as a result give more credit to mmos as real games, and thus are also more prone to try them out.

[cFortyfive]

Yes but the point is that there's a massive amount of people who aren't in either the "2 hours a week" or "raid hardcore heroics multiple nights a week" camp.

Lots of players simply don't want to raid, especially organised raiding, this has been a fact since Vanilla WoW.

Let's take me for example, I no longer take on organised raiding, i've cleared every raid on some difficulty, completed the 5.1 and 5.2 storylines, done brawler's guild and beat every pet trainer in the game. There's really not too much max level content for me anymore and i'm willing to bet there's a lot of people in my boat, who're just quitting until WoD

You really think that you are in some kind of massively large group of people having cleared every raid on some difficulty, having "cleared" pet crap and dealt with brawling ?

[Raeln]

Yes. 100% of all development is spent on the last boss in the tier and nobody else kills a single boss in raids.

Also, ask yourself the question. Is heroic garrosh content for the players that have killed him or for the players that havent killed him yet? I killed Heroic Garrosh a bit over 2 months ago, I have not raided since then. Do I have any content left? No I do not. I am not saying that there should be any more content. But you need to consider that the end boss is not content for the 0.23% that killed him, rather the 99.77% that did not kill him.

He was content for you while you were speed rushing through the content.

He is still content for you because it seems unlikely that you have accumulated every piece of BiS gear possible after just killing him one time.

[Haywire5714]

Don't people quit when they have no content to progress on? That's one of the reasons that heroic modes exist; they give casual raiders something to shoot for and heroic raiders usually don't quit the game because they genuinely enjoy raiding.

If they remove heroics then the heroic raiders will unsubscribe (around 7%) and the normal mode raiders will unsubscribe fairly quickly after since the content will be cleared and they will have nothing to do.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

If i remember well, only 0.09% of the player had defeated Kil'jaeden before the 25% nerf or 30% im not sure, so i would say 0.23% seems alright.

[Raeln]

The "majority" already has _TONS_ of content available to them, they just choose not to do it. Blizzard already uses most of their resources providing soloable/easy group content. The people who want something hard from the game have one section of truly difficult content designed for them. CMs aren't hard. Pet battles aren't hard. Dungeons aren't hard. Questing isn't hard.

Pet battles? They struck me as a fairly quick addition code-wise with just a couple devs going through the critters and converting them.

Raids require artists to spend months designing maps and balance teams to create the boss scripts. Seems to me that far more dollars and time goes into making one single raid than in the entire pet battle addon.

This isn't a matter of it being "too hard", this is a matter of people being lazy and unmotivated. Blizzard has failed to make guilds easier to manage (so that people feel less stressed managing raids) and failed to incentivise moving up in difficulty. People are running LFR, then unsubbing when they get bored. They aren't moving into guilds or trying to improve their play, because there's no reason to.

Don't mistake uninterested with "lazy and unmotivated". I've been down the heroic/hardcore raiding path twice before.

Many of the ones who keep playing and think everything should be brought down to their level yell "but I don't have time!" - I'm in a guild with 11/14HC steadily making progress after a shaky start, and we're about to pick back up after our 3 week winter break. I'm certain in the next few months or so we'll have Garrosh down and we're looking forward to the tough few bosses ahead. We raid just 6 hours a week and everyone has jobs, partners, university etc. Lack of time is just an excuse that people who want everything easy hide behind - there are people on my realm who easily put in 50 hours a week into their legion of alts and vanity items but will complain about "elitists". If they turned that effort into raiding instead, they wouldn't be stuck in LFR and Flex for eternity.

I don't really have a problem with heroic raiding being in the game, as long as it is given a relative amount of dev time/budget compared to the actual number of players that consume it. I find it difficult to believe that those heroic raids are only given 0.5% of the end game content budget though (I'm being generous at consumption numbers).

My larger problem with heroic raiding is that it must award better gear which upsets the balance of everything else in the endgame and ultimately adds to itemlevel inflation.

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Can it be that with raid finder they stay subbed 1 week longer?

Without raid finder, I would have unsubbed months ago. Actually, I wouldn't have came back - seeing that like 80% of MoPs endgame is raid or die.

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For 99% of the player base that is exactly right and that's the biggest mistake that blizzard ever made.

Their "everyone should get to see all the raid bosses within a month of a patch being out" was a mistake because 99% of the players that they were trying to please with the move only want to complete the raid a couple of times until they are bored and want to see something new. The hardcore guys are the ones that clear the same raids every single week for 6 months, everyone else just gets bored after 2 weeks and having seen everything (raid difficulty doesnt matter to casuals) in any difficulty and they want to move on and when they have nothing to move on to they cancel til the next patch.

Thats why the vanilla and BC days were best because the casuals always had a goal to see the last bosses until the last day of an expansion.

Guess you missed the poster a couple pages ago that said they killed heroic Garrosh 2 months ago and haven't raided since.

[Deleted]

Because Olympians get sponsors to support them through the Olympics and train vigorously every day for years to compete. They don't just pay $49.95 for the box and $14.95 a month and play after they get home from work.

For you to even insinuate that speaks volumes.

Untill recently olympics were only for amateurs, so they did indeed play or practise their sport after getting home from work and nothing more. Not to mention that such exclusivity already exists (or atleast did, in case of wow) in PvP, with cash prizes and all. The difference is, I guess, that for PvP it doesn't take much resources to do it, but the idea of exclusitivity is sound in any sport or hobby, including games.

Interesting enough, pvp community which traditionally has almost no entitlement issues gets excited about exclusitivity that can be achieved with skill and commitment, even if they know they most likely won't reach that status.

[cFortyfive]

My larger problem with heroic raiding is that it must award better gear which upsets the balance of everything else in the endgame and ultimately adds to itemlevel inflation.

Lol what precious balance is that supposed to upset ?

[Raeln]

If there were more people with this mentality in the world, there would be alot less spoiled little shits running around.

I respect this man.

Make you a deal:

Blizzard removes the percentage of the cost for creating and maintaining heroic raid content from the box price and subscription cost of WoD.

.. then adds the heroic raid unlocks to the cash shop. That way, the people that want to see the heroic raid content can pay for it and I won't have to subsidize it with my money.

We'll see then how many people actually want that heroic content.

[mistahwilshire]

Could also be interpreted as 99.77% of players don't care, or aren't incentivized enough to finish all the content. Just playing devil's advocate, eveh though I know a big reason is most likely not many are willing to put in the time. But then again, why should they with LFR?

But then again, why shouldn't they with LFR? What does LFR have to do with anything? Horrendous gear, lack of personal achievement, unrewarding, etc.

If you can't see the incentives to raid past LFR then you're in the wrong genre in general. People strapped for time? Sure, LFR is fine.

[jwx]

Can't wait for Mythic raiding so we can hear casuals cry about that too.

[mistahwilshire]

Relatively more skilled and definately more committed playerbase back then. No tourist modes either.

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In my experience it can have draw outside the game. Gamers who have not played mmo's more often than not find it cool that there are bosses so hard that they haven't been killed yet and as a result give more credit to mmos as real games, and thus are also more prone to try them out.

Raiding is much harder now than it was back then and that's an indisputable fact so you can take that skillful crap out of here. I raided server first back then and still do today. The hardest part of TBC was keeping 25 people around and dealing with logistics, running recruits through old tiers constantly to keep up with turnover, and getting the right classes that Stackwell demanded.

[cFortyfive]

If you can't see the incentives to raid past LFR then you're in the wrong genre in general.

This is a significant problem since the beginning anyways. People being better off playing mobas, cardgames, elder scroll titles and whatever. But well at least Blizzard is addressing the first two problems so we might catch a break finally from people not wanting to play the game they are playing.

[Raeln]

Funny considering 94% of the playerbase has already way more content available than they could ever complete.

Oh? Timeless Isle, you mean?

The Isle of kill 20 mobs a day or farm yaungol for 5 to 11 rep per kill until you fall asleep?

The "other" 5.4 content is raid or die.