The slippery slope has finally ended.

[Pickynerd]

Just because you lack the ability to see the fundamental difference between buying levels and buying more powerful items doesn't mean Blizzard has the same flaw.

WTF? Where did I say P2W?

I say... "It will be eventually, it ***just may someday include items***.. When, or where will it stop?"

Well, you know many other games that involve dildos? Pretty sure that's a rather niche item.

I did a search, it came up with GTA, but I know its something different, it was on the news a while back... The game has poor graphics, early 2kish.

[Rumblecrush]

I'm pretty confident Blizzard could start selling stat gear tomorrow and people would just move the goalposts around to defend that too.

A set of blue dungeon gear wouldn't matter right? Since it's so easy to get

[ElChig]

After playing countless various mmorpgs, i will tell you that WoW is as far away from "pay to win" as it can possibly be - and if u really think that WoW is pay to win, then you "are off your rocker"...

So what if I decide not to pay for 90 alts when WoD drops. I simply dont't have more money to spend on WoW other than the subscription I pay every 3 months. Suddenly I find that to level my alts without paying real money I need to wait in longer dungeon and bg queues because I am not paying Blizzard more money and other leveling players are. This does have a feeling of "pay to win".

I understand the floodgates are open with the new insta-90 feature in WoD so people with a lot of money to spend will buy multiple copies and then pay more money for transfers. Why not then make insta-90 alts purchasable with in game currency/achievements to reward players' gameplay instead of rewarding the size of their wallet? If they want to give away 90s, they don't have to ask for more money to do it.

[GoldNSilence]

I'm willing to bet the 90 will come with Timeless Isle quality gear, epic flying unlocked (including Northrend and Pandaria), and probably some gold, maybe 5k just to get professions started. I'm not okay with this. Running dungeons and scenarios from 90-100 is going to suck with all the noobs who don't know how to play their classes flooding dungeons that are probably not designed as teaching tools like the earlier ones.

[Magpai]

WTF? Where did I say P2W?

I say... "It will be eventually, it ***just may someday include items***.. When, or where will it stop?"

Where did I say P2W? I said "items", just as you did.

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I'm pretty confident Blizzard could start selling stat gear tomorrow and people would just move the goalposts around to defend that too.

You're confident in this because you don't understand the arguments in Blizzard's defense.

[Gilian]

Selling level 90s impacts you how, exactly?

A better question is how does it not impact you? Someone having 11 level 90's instantly is not a problem and has no effect on other players? Or even one for that matter.

And about selling LFR gear... are you going to ask the same dumb question? For one, queues will be even longer. Is that enough?

I can't stop them from selling level 90's but if my friends are going to buy them instead of leveling with me I will cancel my subscription probably.

[Vargur]

That's not even remotely selling them.

They pretty much will, if you wanna get technical.

[Rumblecrush]

Where did I say P2W? I said "items", just as you did.

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You're confident in this because you don't understand the arguments in Blizzard's defense.

The arguments are an amorphous blob that can be conveniently shaped to allow juuuust enough space to justify every new step Blizzard takes with their microtransaction bullshit. This applies to Blizzard and ONLY Blizzard since we all know damn well this place would bash and has bashed the shit out of WoW's competition for far, far less. It's the hypocrisy of it all

[8bithamster]

Guys, guys, guys.... Please.

Giving us a free 90 is a great move to let people catch up with their friends.

Selling further 90s is a great move to let people like me (who already have 9 90s) a way to create a new alt for another faction perhaps and save a lot of time I'd otherwise waste on the annoying MOP leveling.

"Pay to win" is a different thing completely.

It's a process where money can make your character stronger, faster, better than those of other players who are not paying.

The only thing money is doing here is SAVING YOU TIME leveling and getting annoyed at the quests you've done over and over and over.

Is it really that hard to see the difference?

IF they were selling a level 90 with the latest Arena Gladiator gear - sure, as a casual player I'd say that's kinda pay to win. But just saving you the time is not. It's a convenience service, nothing other than that.

And I'm grateful they are implementing it.

So much this.. Always funny that a normal members is more sane about this than a moderator who was.. to say it lightly, nerdraging a bit >_>

[Gilian]

Uhh looks like a lot of people don't care, at the least, or welcome it.

Vanilla/BC WoW would fail hardcore, and I'm always grateful Blizzard doesn't listen to nostalgic fools who want to implement changes that ruin the game. And I even played during Vanilla.

tl;dr:

Doomsdayers are once again throwing a fit over nothing and will be proven the alarmists that they are. As they always have been.

Haha, and when they are selling level 90's and dungeon queues during leveling are impossible you are nowhere to be found ofcourse.

The only thing money is doing here is SAVING YOU TIME leveling and getting annoyed at the quests you've done over and over and over.

Is it really that hard to see the difference?

And time is money/gold which gives you more powerful gear.

[Pandamists]

No they're not. Don't make things up.

tfw they just announced they are

[Xeraxis]

You get it with a purchase...

One of the things they're trying to do is get new and old players to return, and giving them "free" 90, which requires you to buy it with the expansion, or as a service. IT is not a bonus with those intentions, it is a bundle... so yes... this is SELLING MAX LVL CHARACTER.

No this is selling a character 10 levels below the level cap.

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tfw they just announced they are

The OP states they are selling max level characters and they are not and will not be according to what information they have released.

[Gilian]

So much this.. Always funny that a normal members is more sane about this than a moderator who was.. to say it lightly, nerdraging a bit >_>

Thanks for your useless comment, which is your third one .

[Pickynerd]

Where did I say P2W? I said "items", just as you did.

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Quote Originally Posted by Magpai View Post
**Just because you lack the ability to see the fundamental difference between buying levels and buying more powerful items** doesn't mean Blizzard has the same flaw.

More powerful items would be considered P2W, I said: "It will be eventually, it ***just may someday include items***.. When, or where will it stop?"

Learn to fucking read.

[Pandamists]

No this is selling a character 10 levels below the level cap.

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The OP states they are selling max level characters and they are not and will not be according to what information they have released.

Blizzard will be testing allowing you to purchase a character upgrade directly.
Sorry I can't link it but it's on the front page.
Edit: Plus, 10 levels below level cap isn't a whole lot (certainly not enough to learn the class), if it's not just a one time thing it's stupid. And according to blizz it's not a one time thing

[Xeraxis]

Blizzard will be testing allowing you to purchase a character upgrade directly.
Sorry I can't link it but it's on the front page.
Edit: Plus, 10 levels below level cap isn't a whole lot (certainly not enough to learn the class), if it's not just a one time thing it's stupid. And according to blizz it's not a one time thing

Testing will occur on the PTR which should be about the same time that the PTR for WoD hits. Hell I also hate to tell you this but they've given you max level characters on the PTR for quite some time that is nothing new. Also have to love how you still believe it takes 90 levels to learn a class that changes dramatically at max level.

[Stormcall]

Plus, 10 levels below level cap isn't a whole lot (certainly not enough to learn the class), if it's not just a one time thing it's stupid. And according to blizz it's not a one time thing

People don't learn their class playing to 90, because rotations change at 90, because you don't NEED to do a proper rotation while questing, because leveling talents are often different than end game talents, and so on.

[Pandamists]

Testing will occur on the PTR which should be about the same time that the PTR for WoD hits. Also have to love how you still believe it takes 90 levels to learn a class that changes dramatically at max level.

Whatever, if you think it's okay to bypass 90 levels of content, a major aspect of the game, then I there is nothing I can say to change your mind. As for 90 levels to learn your class, uhm, yeah. If you think that 90 levels doesn't help someone learn the class in a major way, you are simply wrong.

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People don't learn their class playing to 90, because rotations change at 90, because you don't NEED to do a proper rotation while questing, because leveling talents are often different than end game talents, and so on.

Honestly, having a massive influx of abilities at 90 will result in people having no clue in the slightest of what to do. I mean, you and I could prob feel it out but not everyone is keen on classes. They just see a class mollywhop them so they boost it to 90, which results in them badding up all the groups even further. It's a chain reaction, and I can't wait to watch it unfold.

[Deleted]

No they're not. Don't make things up.

Yes theyll do - see frontpage.

[Granyala]

By the time they will start selling more than the initial character, Lv 90 won't even be the maximum level.

I REALLY don't see how this is pay to win, because we all know that there will be a massive nerf to lv 85 -> 90 xp anyway, making leveling a character a thing of 24hr /played... tops.

Also there's this statement from Bashiok:

Ideally no one has ever hit the level cap of the last expansion, looked at their dungeon blues, and thought "I win."