Night Elf Shaman Just Feels Right

[Grubjuice]

Although I suppose technically it would make more sense than dwarves? Although I always thought Night Elves were more about Nature than the Elements overall.

the very fact that we can distnguish between 'the elements' and 'nature' seems really bizzare if you think about it... i mean they are essentially synonyms unless you mean 'abiotic-nature' and 'biotic-nature'

[Raiju]

the very fact that we can distnguish between 'the elements' and 'nature' seems really bizzare if you think about it... i mean they are essentially synonyms unless you mean 'abiotic-nature' and 'biotic-nature'

Except for the elements are an extraplanar force, essentially. Druidic nature is often more homely.

Like they are in alot of fantasy.

[Tuor]

When it all started all elves were night elves. Im aware that night elves can practice magic. Just feel weird to see a nelf mage currently.

But they never erradicated all arcane magic, balance druids still use it, in fact shapeshifting isn't more then a form of arcane magic, very similar to sheep, but in this case aplied to themselves.

But my point is that they never practiced shamanism. Their approach to nature was through druidism, so no reason to make a NElf Shaman.

Who knows?? An ex-imortal race that still lives much more then most mortal races, who knows how many Nelf shamans exits, its not a question about if, its more like, how many are they?

I agree in one point with most people, Nelfs society may had helped prevent those nelf shamans to come into public, justifying then the reason why they are currently not shamans.

[Raiju]

But they never erradicated all arcane magic, balance druids still use it, in fact shapeshifting isn't more then a form of arcane magic, very similar to sheep, but in this case aplied to themselves.

do you have evidence of this? It could just as well be similar to 'spirit' or 'primal' magic.

[Tuor]

do you have evidence of this? It could just as well be similar to 'spirit' or 'primal' magic.

The fact that some Druids use arcane magic has been confirmed by the lore, but in this particular case i have no evidences, its just me that sees it that way.

[Deleted]

On that note, any race can be a Paladin by just joining the Argent Crusade and saying "Hey, who would I ask?" As it's a personal issue not a genetic one.

1) Being in the service of the Argent Crusade doesn't make you a Paladin.

2) Paladins are way more hardcore champions of the Light than Priests can ever be. In order to wield Paladin abilities, you must believe that your cause is 100% just and righteous. So even though an Orc with a righteous moral code might technically become a Paladin, there's no way he could serve the Horde with a good conscience. He should remain in the Argent Crusade.

3) The Horde, while it may not be purely evil, is certainly not "good enough" to employ real Paladins. Sunwalkers and Blood Knights aren't "real" Paladins, more like cheap copies drawing their strength from other sources than pure Light. They just use Paladin mechanics in game. Imo their spells should be renamed to better reflect their true origins. Some people seem to have tremendous difficulty with telling the difference between lore and gameplay mechanics.

[Raiju]

The fact that some Druids use arcane magic has been confirmed by the lore, but in this particular case i have no evidences, its just me that sees it that way.

Yeah I know moon power thing is arcane, was just wondering if there was details about shapeshifting

blood knights had a different seal in TBC (blood vs truth I believe?) but they were homogenized in wrath

[Futhark]

That being said, I've long been a fan of opening up all class combos to all the races. Who's to say there's not someone who wants to take the path less traveled? Just because no Orc has ever found the Alliance's so called "Light", whose to say one could not look for it and find it? Becoming a Priest or even a Paladin?

That's because you're thinking like a Human; a race long portrayed in RPGs to be able to try a little bit of everything. Other races are not as experimental as Humans are, so its a mistake to assume they would, or even could, broaden their cultures at all.

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The point here, is that Nelfs, that used to be imortal until the Tree was destroyed, had much more time to develop deeper ties with nature then most races in Azeroth

That reminds me, why would an immortal race communicate with its ancestors? What would they gain? Do they even have ancestors?

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the very fact that we can distnguish between 'the elements' and 'nature' seems really bizzare if you think about it... i mean they are essentially synonyms unless you mean 'abiotic-nature' and 'biotic-nature'

It is very confusing, but your last distinction is pretty much it.

[Vightnic]

The lack of cultural affiliation doesn't make sense as a true argument for why player characters can't join that class with their race. Just because a society doesn't have a history of teaching that skill doesn't mean they are barred from it. In the real world there are people who adopt customs and practices from other cultures all the time... or hell they just make up their own. That is literally what defines subcultures and counter-cultures.

If my Gnome or Nelf wants to study the ways of Paladins why can't they? Just because no one in Gnomeragan or Darnassus knows how? They're allied with races that DO possess that knowledge and CAN teach those skills. They don't need to look towards their own race.

In a very real sense, globalization has come to the world of Azeroth. All paths are learn-able within the respective factions. Just look at Monks. Before discovering Pandaria, all the races had a history of martial disciplines, but none that employed Chi, beer, and mist. Emissaries were sent to all the starting zones specifically to teach our characters a new way of life. With the exception of Worgen and Goblin every race showed they could do it.

I understand how it may not feel right to certain people, but that isn't a good reason to limit a race's potential. To me the only valid and interesting debates are things that just logistically don't make sense. Such as Tauren Rogues, or UD Priests/Paladins. Stuff like that speak to physiological limitations rather than whether someone wants to learn something or not.

[Faroth]

Yeah I'm all for it. Lore is a stupid reason to limit race/class combos, they need to give it up. I'd be willing to bet only 2% or 3% of current subs actually cares about lore. I see Blizz opening this up somewhere down the line just hope it's sooner rather than later.

Guarantee I'd quit for good when every race could be every class.
There's just no point in playing an MMORPG that has no flavor.

Night elf paladins. Forsaken druids. Meh...

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The lack of cultural affiliation doesn't make sense as a true argument for why player characters can't join that class with their race. Just because a society doesn't have a history of teaching that skill doesn't mean they are barred from it. In the real world there are people who adopt customs and practices from other cultures all the time... or hell they just make up their own. That is literally what defines subcultures and counter-cultures.

If my Gnome or Nelf wants to study the ways of Paladins why can't they? Just because no one in Gnomeragan or Darnassus knows how? They're allied with races that DO possess that knowledge and CAN teach those skills. They don't need to look towards their own race.

In a very real sense, globalization has come to the world of Azeroth. All paths are learn-able within the respective factions. Just look at Monks. Before discovering Pandaria, all the races had a history of martial disciplines, but none that employed Chi, beer, and mist. Emissaries were sent to all the starting zones specifically to teach our characters a new way of life. With the exception of Worgen and Goblin every race showed they could do it.

I understand how it may not feel right to certain people, but that isn't a good reason to limit a race's potential. To me the only valid and interesting debates are things that just logistically don't make sense. Such as Tauren Rogues, or UD Priests/Paladins. Stuff like that speak to physiological limitations rather than whether someone wants to learn something or not.

I'd potentially agree with the approach if there was some sort of involvement on the player's part. But just "click, I'ma _____ now!" followed by being trained in that race's capital city to be the class that isn't accepted by that culture......

Or again with the rotting decaying corpse being one with nature as a druid just seems weird.

Though, I will say I wouldn't be at all surprised to see no restrictions on any race/class combos in the future. In fact, I'd say it's likely.

EQNext is taking the appropriate approach. You can learn any class. You can learn multiple classes. But there are going to be consequences. Slaughtering a caravan of innocent travelers and a group of city guards so a band of orcs will teach you a class is going to put you on the restricted list among the paladins, for example. Actions determine the merits of the character...it was that way in original EverQuest and it does add a bit of a journey to obtain the goal you want.

WoW is just "I chose it and that's what I am" with nothing reflected in the game world at all. If even NPCs would have a reaction to you differently, it would at least add something to it.

[Deleted]

That's because you're thinking like a Human; a race long portrayed in RPGs to be able to try a little bit of everything. Other races are not as experimental as Humans are, so its a mistake to assume they would, or even could, broaden their cultures at all.

Good point. Not all cultures even on planet Earth are that experimental; experimenting and trying out new things is almost exclusively a Western culture feature that others mimic with varying success; countries like Japan and South Korea doing well and most others... not so well. Other cultures would naturally like all the high tech and welfare but, apart from rare individuals, are often unwilling to change their behavior, traditions and values (such as attitudes towards human rights) to ones that allow such progress.

[Tuor]

That reminds me, why would an immortal race communicate with its ancestors? What would they gain? Do they even have ancestors?

I will give you the example of Paladins, lorewise a Belf Paladin isn't the same as a Human, Tauren or Draenei one. A Nelf Shaman would not be about comunicating with the spirits, but about to manage nature's elements (fire, water, air and earth), a Nelf shaman would be like if the Highborne would still be in comand, as nobleman, of the nelf society, they would be non-noble nelfs that abdied from all sources of arcanes energy (which only nobleman could acces) to comune exclusevely with energies of nature, a nelf shaman would be what a druid should have become and failed.

[Mic_128]

Well, the orc's ability to commune with their ancestors and the elemental spirits on Draenor came from consuming the light-blessed waters from Oshu'gun, waters that were filled with the lifeblood of the dying Naaru inside, aka a clean source of the Holy Light.

What? This is completely backwards.

In the novel Rise of the Horde, K'ure occupied a small pool of water within the crystal itself. During the Orcish festival of Kosh'harg, shaman would enter Oshu'gun and add blessed water to this pool as a ritual to speak with their ancestors. Unknown to those shaman was the fact that the blessed water also helped to sustain K'ure by allowing him to heal himself enough to slow down his dying process. With the help of its energies, the ancient orc ancestors could communicate with living shaman via dreams and visions.

They, in no way, drank the water. To them, it'd be the equivalent of taking money from a church collection plate.

A Nelf Shaman would not be about comunicating with the spirits, but about to manage nature's elements (fire, water, air and earth)

Except that Druids already do that. We've got ingame examples of water and air with Typhoon, Cyclone and Hurricane, and in the novels we've had examples of druids using the earth and on rare occasions, fire. A shaman that doesn't commune with the spirits isn't a shaman at all, much like a warlock who doesn't use demon-based magic.

[Sunblaze]

1) But they never erradicated all arcane magic, balance druids still use it, in fact shapeshifting isn't more then a form of arcane magic, very similar to sheep, but in this case aplied to themselves.

2) Who knows?? An ex-imortal race that still lives much more then most mortal races, who knows how many Nelf shamans exits, its not a question about if, its more like, how many are they?

I agree in one point with most people, Nelfs society may had helped prevent those nelf shamans to come into public, justifying then the reason why they are currently not shamans.

1) Again, i never said they couldnt practice magic. I said N elf mages are weird to me at present day, given the lore behind.
(And doesnt balance in fact use arcane school? )

2) Using this Point of view, all races can be all classes.

[Tuor]

Except that Druids already do that. We've got ingame examples of water and air with Typhoon, Cyclone and Hurricane, and in the novels we've had examples of druids using the earth and on rare occasions, fire.

We see Druids using fire in Firelands .

A shaman that doesn't commune with the spirits isn't a shaman at all, much like a warlock who doesn't use demon-based magic.

Or a Paladin that doesn't bless the light... Oh wait... Belf's don't...

Your vision of shamanism is the one associeted with spirits, in some cultures around the world a shaman is just a curandeer that does not comune with the spirits. Severall tipes of shamanism exist.

The way i see Nelf Shaman's, its like they were before the Highborne got kiked from nelf society, it an uneducated nelf, that become a eremit and started comuning with the nature in the last 10 000, and was succefull in understanding the ways of nature.

2) Using this Point of view, all races can be all classes.

It still doesn't justify undead paladins for example, just a small example.

[Vokal]

Night Elf Shaman Just Feels Right

No...........!

[Varabently]

I dunno, it's already bad enough that the night elf hunter in my group comes up to me in transmogged into the current shaman tier claiming to be a shaman...

Although I suppose technically it would make more sense than dwarves? Although I always thought Night Elves were more about Nature than the Elements overall.

Yeah they can be druids, but not shaman. Seems weird.

[lakisa]

Night Elves don't care for Elements, all they care is for druidism only tree bro or you out like they kicked High Elfs.

[IzoGray]

The argument that Night Elves don't care for the elements or don't want to is awful. Paladins and Shamans make the most sense on Night Elves. I don't even play that race.

I played Horde and the one Alliance character I have is a dwarf.

[Wildmoon]

The argument that Night Elves don't care for the elements or don't want to is awful. Paladins and Shamans make the most sense on Night Elves. I don't even play that race.

I played Horde and the one Alliance character I have is a dwarf.

They don't. It's simply the fact that different races have different cultures. No need to force every race to be able to be every class. In theory, every race could learn all kinds of practice but it would be god awful to unlock them all for every race. The flavor and prestige of BOTH classes and races should be preserved.

Why can't human be shaman? Why can't orc be druid? Why can't Tauren be rogue? Why can't gnome be paladin? The lore could be stretched to justify them anyway but it would be terrible. That's the point.

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Yeah they can be druids, but not shaman. Seems weird.

Why would being able to be druid mean they have to be able to be shaman? Different culture entirely.