New PTR build removes the stun aspect of charge?

[Voix]

Well, as a tank this is mildly annoying but nothing a talent swap can't fix from Double time to Warbringer for the required fights. I'm still annoyed that PvP is once again is affecting the PvE game, i wish they'd just split them apart like guild wars 2 and be done with it.

With the above said, this is the wrong thing to nerf, if we have too much CC due to talent choices, nerf stormbolt from 4 to 2 seconds or something. Another poster said Disrupting shout is too strong, and they are right, another ability that could go from a 40 second to 60 second cooldown and still be completely viable. MSR is fine, shockwave is ok too.

[Count Zero]

Well, as a tank this is mildly annoying but nothing a talent swap can't fix from Double time to Warbringer for the required fights. I'm still annoyed that PvP is once again is affecting the PvE game, i wish they'd just split them apart like guild wars 2 and be done with it.

With the above said, this is the wrong thing to nerf, if we have too much CC due to talent choices, nerf stormbolt from 4 to 2 seconds or something. Another poster said Disrupting shout is too strong, and they are right, another ability that could go from a 40 second to 60 second cooldown and still be completely viable. MSR is fine, shockwave is ok too.

Make official forum posts and tweet at the developers.

These suggestions are much more reasonable and likely to be heard / responded to / possibly implemented than histrionics

I don't play a Warrior so these don't affect me (and even in our raids with our Warrior tanks, even when we run 10s, we have more than enough stuns for the situations we need them for), but I'd really like it if the community as a whole moved away from QQ and more toward rational discussion

[Urtgard]

I realy like the stun aspect of charge to interrupt casts which you can't interrupt with pummel or disrupting shout.

[Mukki]

Unlike every other class (literally) the only stun warriors have is charge. Besides that everything else is talented into.

Yes, why are you literally repeating the second sentence of what you quoted from me?

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I've never played the class? ok dude, i actually did a few matches with a friend of mine who's playing his character for the lols and doing arena with him was so easy, also i played my warrior, i had blues and i 3shotted a druid in 1 stun gg learn your class please before complaining and also you have enough cc stormbolt and shockwave might share dr but if you place them well they aren't even sharing dr or barely or are you too bad to actually cc properly?

I like how your argument is "I know warrior because I played it a couple times." Thank you for proving you know absolutely nothing about the class. A decent warrior will EAT a resto druid for breakfast, you're essentially their counterclass, but I'm sure you know more about this than me, probably super pro in the 1300 bracket, lol. Also, do you even know how well the Druid was geared? He could have also been wearing blues, though judging from your post, such a concept may be a little beyond your level, no offense.

Next, talking about using Stormbolt and Shockwave simultaneously is proof you've no clue of what you speak. You really think 20-30% damage is worth losing 20-30% damage during your burst? Especially because DR timer is 30 seconds, meaning that if you don't space it out, you're getting a 1.5 second stun in return. Why the hell would you do that? While situational, for most situations, you will be much better served by a damage buff, but it shows you didn't even read my post before getting all defensive and insecure then attacking me. Even more comical is that you admit you have almost no experience as a warrior, then you berate someone who's clearly been playing the class (well, all of them, but especially warrior) years longer than you have because they don't spec the same way that your inexperienced mind thinks is a good idea? Do the community a favor and learn a thing about the class before you talk.

You have a long way to go before you understand the class, but you also don't seem to be able to grasp the concept of your opponents having varying skill/gear levels or the nuances of all the classes and it shows from your post. But please, post again and embarrass yourself further in trying to pretend you have the first clue of how to play as a warrior, while everyone with half a clue reading your post will laugh at how willfully ignorant you are towards the class.

TL;DR:

-You just admitted you know nothing about warrior, so thank you for proving my point.
-If you're using Stormbolt and Shockwave at the same time, you're terrible and sacrificing a lot of the "insane" burst that we have.

You have never played warrior, you're bad at it, or (most likely) both. I'll go out on a limb and say I'm most likely not just better than you, but for the sake of this pissing contest, I am most likely on a completely different level above you.

Intimidating shout and TALENTED stuns being a 'ton of cc' man, you're adorable. Try playing a mage, rogue, hunter, etc and tell me that warriors have insane cc. Or you know, learn how to pvp, lol.

[Kezotar]

Wait what? Blizzard is actually buffing Warriors? How come?

And LOLS to those saying omg it's a nerf and crying their asses, and also to those "haha now warriors will be nerfed".


First of all, this is not a nerf, a change but not a nerf, more a buff than a nerf. I assume this ROOT is on NO DR with any other roots, aye. Root a target without even DR the other roots such as our talent etc. Now how is this powerful? In many many ways. Remember the game is not balanced around 2s, nor is it balanced around duels. It's 3s or PvE.

1. Against DK - Stun Immunity? No long, we've got our roots on you, imagine that. Yeah sure the DK is a half ranged class, but this is actually quite powerful against them. First of all they'll be forced in a place without being able to fortitude out of it. Meaning they either need a Paladins Hand of Freedom, which leaves the DK with that and the paladin without it. He can use his trinket on a 1,5 second root that "could" give him the kill.. Or he has to spec the tier 2/3 root removal to be able to get pass it. Meaning that DKs are prettty heavily affected by this.

2. In general - You can root players away from their healers or vice versa. It's effective if it can be used properly making this actually quite skillful compared to a braindead charge which most people just sit in.

3. Mistweaver? Goodbye.. I can't understand why Blizzard is helping us beating mistweavers. It's .. wrong. Make no sense, they're weak atm in 3s.

This is just a few examples, and this most likely affects multiple classes. It's debatable if it's better than a stun on the charge or not. But it's not a nerf. Far from it. It's quite the fix to actually solve stuff. Just take a example. Is the Paladin going to waste his freedoms on himself to get away or is he going to give them to his party to land a kill? You make the choice, I'd say it's a rather hard one.

This is a bad choice blizzard. Revert it, nerf our DMG. Something like Deep Wounds deal (50% on players). Even reduce slams damage and compensate that with a Heroic Strike buff with a overpower effect, say x overpower reduces the rage cost on your heroic strike by a and increase the damage dealt with b. Obviously nothing to overpowered but giving Warriors something to do. And every heroic strike regardless of parry, miss /block even.. it gives a somewhat benefit to your next abilities, such as Slam " rage cost reduction ". Something along the lines, not making it a rotational spec. Either way, my idea is probably bad, but Slam and Deep wounds needs rework. Not the charge...


Reworks-

Optional 1 - 1 Charge - 3 second stun - 25 second CD.

Optional 2 - 1 Charge - 1,5 second stun - no CD - a% rage cost.

Optional 3 - 2 Charges of Charge. - 1,5 second stun - 20 second CD.

Optional 4 - 1 Charge - 1,5 second stun - 15 second CD


Remove Second wind and Victory Rush thing from Talent tree and make both baseline.

Then take second wind and reduce the healing from 3% to 1,5% from 35% to 65%. Make it unaffected by battle fatigue. It's a slight buff to the healing per second and a buff to when it starts healing.

Make Victory Rush on a CD unaffected by KB - 15% Healing on a 30 second CD ( Affected by BF )

Defensive stance - Let it have 25% damage reduction but increases the rage cost of your abilties by " 10 ( Execute 20). *even mortal strike*, it's a defensive stance, not a tank and bursting stance.

My changes, not saying it's a better change, not saying my changes are better, not saying anthing. But what I am saying is that those abilities DO need REWORK. Not charge.

[Schwert]

PvP wise I can see why they're doing it.

I've been using double time and using the "2nd charge" as an interrupt for ages.
The only two classes I see this not really helping is DK and MW; And MW's are OP right now and never have to cast anyways.

I still think we need 25% dstance gone with this though and we'd be fineish.

[Kezotar]

PvP wise I can see why they're doing it.

I've been using double time and using the "2nd charge" as an interrupt for ages.
The only two classes I see this not really helping is DK and MW; And MW's are OP right now and never have to cast anyways.

I still think we need 25% dstance gone with this though and we'd be fineish.

Talking as a PvEr on a PvP wise situation you clearly have no clue.

1st. Defensive stance is needed, but rather than a stance to stack in more of a stance to do worthwhile damage but nothing incredible but stay defensive. Not a stance to turtle but to go into when things get rough. Removing it would result into a terrible game change, they tried it and reverted it. They didn't even go as far as removing it, they just made it 15% from 25% and already that didn't do well.

2nd. Waadaaafack - So because a few other classes now are " more safe from Warriors while others classes such as DK and Monk are more vurneable to Warrior is a balance? " Lel. Charge change was not needed, it needs rework but removing the stun is the silliest thing they could do. They just made it more OP.

And please refrain yourself talking nonesense about what Warriors need, because I do get really frustrated reading so many 1500 rating Warriors cry over charge " change " and 1500 other classes thinking this is a nerf as soon as it goes live and gets fixd properly..

Example a - The mage still has to blink away from my charge.

Example b - the shaman will still be stuck on the ground.

Example c - the priest will still be stuck there, he can't move. In fact all healers look away or actually don't look away from paladin as they have to use freedom " one global " to get out of the root. They are now much more likely to cast a spell on that root which can lead in a lockout from interrupt.

I've said it over and over again...

Deep Wounds and Slam needs nerf, also CD stacking. But making Banner and Recklessness not working together destroys the meaning of eachother, resulting in a needed change in those effects. At least for banner.. Make something like "Primary stat increased by xx".. I dunno, "PVE'rs will prolly rage at that"..

[Deleted]

Example c - the priest will still be stuck there, he can't move. In fact all healers look away or actually don't look away from paladin as they have to use freedom " one global " to get out of the root. They are now much more likely to cast a spell on that root which can lead in a lockout from interrupt.

You still have to use that interrupt and it can be juked. PReviously you just interrupted casts with charge's stun and then into interrupt. Whether you like it or not it makes life of a caster easier and that is a good thing because quite honestly warrior is the biggest middle finger to casters there is now with their porfolio of reflects, interrupts, stuns and in general, ways to prevent casting.

If i was casting and you would charge me mid cast you would prevent my CC. Now you may charge me but if you're slow with interrupt you can still eat CC.

From caster POV this change is a good one

I rather stand there rooted being able to cast than stand there and not being able to cast.

[Kezotar]

You still have to use that interrupt and it can be juked. PReviously you just interrupted casts with charge's stun and then into interrupt. Whether you like it or not it makes life of a caster easier and that is a good thing because quite honestly warrior is the biggest middle finger to casters there is now with their porfolio of reflects, interrupts, stuns and in general, ways to prevent casting.

If i was casting and you would charge me mid cast you would prevent my CC. Now you may charge me but if you're slow with interrupt you can still eat CC.

From caster POV this change is a good one

I rather stand there rooted being able to cast than stand there and not being able to cast.

So what if it can be "juked" it can also hit. If you're that bad that most of your interrupts go "juked" then maybe yes you might feel this is a nerf, but let's pretend it takes some skill right? You're aware of that charge never interrupted anything, it just stunned, and regardless if you're stunning or not he's going to follow it with a spell, meaning that 1,5 second of stun means nothing. As long as the target is rooted at the place, you can still do hell of alot of damage on him and if he dares to cast he's going to get locked, and if you now cry to me that he can "juke" you well that's your problem, then I suggest to practice as I've never had a problem with interrupts, only after long breaks.

Unless your cast time is shorter than a 0,5 second. I can't imagine you seeing that invisible charge followed by a interrupt because you couldn't stop the casting since you never saw that charge c'ming, right? Imagine that. Now where's your god. The charge stun was stupid as if you wanted to focus interrupt your caster you wouldn't be able to, not you might be able to if the player is slow. As far as I see it, it's a buff. I can now interrupt people casting on me with my charge becasue I'll follow it with a interrupt and most people wont predict a interrupt so they wont bother fake casting unless caster cleaves or a target is on them.

From a caster POV this is a terrible change, this wont help you. Just tell me.. What do you think.. Just what do you think are you going to do rooted for 1,5 seconds compared to 1,5 stun? Are you going to cast on the Warrior risking a interrupt? Trying to CC him? Trying to stop him somehow? What did you do when you were stunned? Nothing. See? You're actually going to waste stuff to try to stop him, but you're not going to have these things up for a later occasion. Tbh, this change is strong, yes as a caster now you'll feel more open to dmg the warrior on the root rather than trying to get him off you. Sux, doesn't it?

Again, not a nerf - Just a stupid game change that destroys monk and dks. Revert it. Mobility is not a issue.. Rogues have almost 100% uptime on the target, same goes for DK as they do have ranged abilities and stuff to remove stuns and double grips. Paladin can remove everything they want, casters have no need for a gap closer, they can just cast. Monks?... Tbh, every class has what warriors have " the gap closer ". Why remove it from Warriors? Well you're not actually removing it with this change, just making it far worse for some classes. But what Warriors need is a DMG nerf. We need our burst toned down.

I'm not talking about BS being good, it's not.
It's Banner + Reck that is strong.
Deep Wounds..
Slam..

MS, OP is weak, heroic strike is weak and never used, execute is weak. (Warlocks execute crit me for 230k a few days ago, my warriors execute hits for 20k non crit.)

[Deleted]

i want ghostcrawler back

[Anzen]

Wish they'd changed something other than charge but better than nothing I suppose.

[Kazlofski]

So Blizzard, after all those years it's still hard to separate between PVE and PVP? Because of that, we don't get to for example stun bonecrushers with charge anymore? Or interrupt that way any mobs in dungeons/raids? Lack of brains is bad for business.

[Kreeshak]

i want ghostcrawler back

no kidding

[Kalcheus]

In the fastest reversal since the Everquest Next Landmark NDA lasted all of 18 hours:

Rygarius ‏@Rygarius 11m
Submitting new revision for 5.4.7 PTR patch notes for review, reverting changes to Charge/Warbringer.

[Cover25]

In the fastest reversal since the Everquest Next Landmark NDA lasted all of 18 hours:

Rygarius ‏@Rygarius 11m
Submitting new revision for 5.4.7 PTR patch notes for review, reverting changes to Charge/Warbringer.

Warriors win

A mod can close this thread

[Count Zero]

Don't get too excited:

Rygarius ‏@Rygarius 1m
@Ruefasa @SoukieBillard Had more to do with feedback that it was difficult to not choose Warbringer over other same tiered talents.

Get to them now with better ideas to tone down your cc / mobility, because it will happen, and you want to be helping guide that process.

[Kalcheus]

Here's what Lore said:

Lore
Blue Poster

#83 - 2014/02/03 09:26:00 PM
We're going to revert the Charge and Warbringer changes from the 5.4.7 PTR and make a different change. Here's some context:

We feel that Warriors are too disruptive vs casters in PvP at the moment. To a certain extent it's intended that it should be more difficult to get casts off if there's a melee DPS sticking to you, but Warriors just have too many options along those lines currently. That's part of the thinking behind the change to Charge: as a root, Charge would not interrupt casting, so it would be useful purely as a gap closer and rage generator, not as a way to lock down a caster.

We're reverting it because, although we do think it's a good change and something we're likely to revisit in the future, it's a bit too big of an overall change for 5.4.7. There's a bit of a ripple effect here; making Charge a root certainly accomplishes the goal of scaling back Warrior interrupts, but it opens up some secondary issues (such as "what happens when you Charge a target with Hand of Freedom active?") that we'd need some additional time to clear up. Put another way, we wanted to nerf Warriors' ability to disrupt casters, not their mobility, and at this point in time the Charge change would have been a nerf to both.

So instead, we're making a different change: Pummel and Disrupting Shout will have a 15-second shared cooldown. To be clear: Disrupting Shout will remain at its current 40 second cooldown, but you won't be able to use it within 15 seconds of using Pummel. Likewise, using Disrupting Shout will put Pummel on cooldown.

We may still come back to the Charge change in Warlords, where all sorts of other changes will have happened (especially to CC) that allow it to make more sense, and we can spend more development and testing time on making sure it doesn't have any unwanted side effects. For now, the shared cooldown on Pummel and Disrupting Shout will fill our original intention of making Warriors just slightly less difficult to cast against.

[Saverem]

Well, they did make it stun citing the reason that it was to "make you end up at your target." Rooting does fit the bill there, at least.

Unless they make the charge root AND interrupt, it's going to be a HUGE nerf. I'd say 1/3 of all my Charges were just to interrupt casters.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Change the color of that. Holy crap!

We're going to revert the Charge and Warbringer changes from the 5.4.7 PTR and make a different change. Here's some context:

We feel that Warriors are too disruptive vs casters in PvP at the moment. To a certain extent it's intended that it should be more difficult to get casts off if there's a melee DPS sticking to you, but Warriors just have too many options along those lines currently. That's part of the thinking behind the change to Charge: as a root, Charge would not interrupt casting, so it would be useful purely as a gap closer and rage generator, not as a way to lock down a caster.

We're reverting it because, although we do think it's a good change and something we're likely to revisit in the future, it's a bit too big of an overall change for 5.4.7. There's a bit of a ripple effect here; making Charge a root certainly accomplishes the goal of scaling back Warrior interrupts, but it opens up some secondary issues (such as "what happens when you Charge a target with Hand of Freedom active?") that we'd need some additional time to clear up. Put another way, we wanted to nerf Warriors' ability to disrupt casters, not their mobility, and at this point in time the Charge change would have been a nerf to both.

So instead, we're making a different change: Pummel and Disrupting Shout will have a 15-second shared cooldown. To be clear: Disrupting Shout will remain at its current 40 second cooldown, but you won't be able to use it within 15 seconds of using Pummel. Likewise, using Disrupting Shout will put Pummel on cooldown.

We may still come back to the Charge change in Warlords, where all sorts of other changes will have happened (especially to CC) that allow it to make more sense, and we can spend more development and testing time on making sure it doesn't have any unwanted side effects. For now, the shared cooldown on Pummel and Disrupting Shout will fill our original intention of making Warriors just slightly less difficult to cast against.

I guess that works.

[Kalcheus]

Change the color of that. Holy crap!

I find it a very relaxing blue