Huolon "Griefing" - Your thoughts?

[rhorle]

the isle is free flowing and do what you want. hunt rares, kill things, and do whatever quests come up. It's obviously meant for just that. putting aside time just so you can fly up to huolon disrupts that. so yes the concept is what i think it is. perhaps it's not what you think it is.

So you can only hunt rares, kill things, do whatever quests come up if it meets X standard? You keep describing what the concept is but contradicting that concept by saying people can't kill huolon in X way because its greifing. Putting aside time so you can be near Huolon spawn isn't disruptive as well? You still have to camp rare spawns if you hope to tag them. They die that fast. Which is as disruptive as someone putting in the time to pull him as soon as he spawns.

[Count Zero]

So you can only hunt rares, kill things, do whatever quests come up if it meets X standard? You keep describing what the concept is but contradicting that concept by saying people can't kill huolon in X way because its greifing. Putting aside time so you can be near Huolon spawn isn't disruptive as well? You still have to camp rare spawns if you hope to tag them. They die that fast. Which is as disruptive as someone putting in the time to pull him as soon as he spawns.

Are you seriously trying to argue that gliding up to Huolon's old spawn point and killing him up there wasn't intentional griefing ?

[rhorle]

Are you seriously trying to argue that gliding up to Huolon's old spawn point and killing him up there wasn't intentional griefing ?

It isn't inherently greifing. There is nothing wrong with pulling any mob to any accessible spot, it isn't griefing. Blizzard changing it also doesn't mean it is greifing, only that it wasn't something they intended.

Are you seriously trying to argue that there is something wrong with killing a mob at its spawn point just because everyone else in the game can't simply walk up to you and tag that mob?

[Count Zero]

It isn't inherently greifing. There is nothing wrong with pulling any mob to any accessible spot, it isn't greifing. Blizzard changing it also doesn't mean it is greifing, only that it wasn't something they intended.

Are you seriously trying to argue that there is something wrong with killing a mob at its spawn point just because everyone else in the game can't simply walk up to you and tag that mob?

Depends on whether you're intentionally misspelling griefing

[rhorle]

Depends on whether you're intentionally misspelling griefing

If that is all you have to say then it proves you have no point. You didn't have an issue with my spelling mistakes in your last response, why now? Why not discuss the topic?

[Apexis]

I really don't care in the least, I rarely go over to Timeless Isle. I usually only go there to kill the boss's and leave. I really hate the concept of the whole island, it is just a big waste of time. I play 11 characters constantly, but if I only played one or two then made I would care more about I just don't have the time to waste.

[melodramocracy]

My thoughts?

a) who cares. It's a rare elite that spawns just like truckloads of other ones.

b) at this rate, racing someone to a mining node will eventually be considered griefing.

[Count Zero]

If that is all you have to say then it proves you have no point. You didn't have an issue with my spelling mistakes in your last response, why now? Why not discuss the topic?

I just wanted to be clear about what your position was. When I got that I just wanted to know if you were intentionally misspelling griefing since you spelled it "greifing" three times in one post.

Pulling/killing mobs where accessibility is low only has a reasonable point if other people tagging/killing it impacts you. Huolon is open tag. There is no reason to prevent others from tagging/killing it other than to grief. There is no defending that behavior other than to defend your "right" to grief.

[Tetchy]

It isn't inherently greifing. There is nothing wrong with pulling any mob to any accessible spot, it isn't griefing. Blizzard changing it also doesn't mean it is greifing, only that it wasn't something they intended.

Are you seriously trying to argue that there is something wrong with killing a mob at its spawn point just because everyone else in the game can't simply walk up to you and tag that mob?

This isn't the same as buying the last apple from the store that the guy behind you wanted too. It's more like me double-parking my car behind yours. I'm just parking my car (or pulling the mob), but I know it's an inconvenience to you. That's griefing whether intentional or not.

[Dreknar20]

People really need to stop complaining about stupid trivial shit
At this rate people will consider losing a duel or a arena match as 'griefing' because it disrupts their gameplay.........

[rhorle]

Pulling/killing mobs where accessibility is low only has a reasonable point if other people tagging/killing it impacts you. Huolon is open tag. There is no reason to prevent others from tagging/killing it other than to grief. There is no defending that behavior other than to defend your "right" to grief.

So how long do you have to wait to kill a rare spawn on the Timeless isle before it is no longer considered griefing? Because killing something fast will prevent others from tagging/killing it. Some rare spawns, like Leafmender, die in about 30 seconds after someone spots them. Is killing him fast now considered griefing? I have prevented others from tagging/killing it based on the location it spawns.

Since you know not everyone is within 30 seconds of the spawn location. They weren't just pulling mobs were the accessibility is low. They were pulling it on the spawn point. Nothing says that because anyone can tag the mob that anyone has to be able to kill it. The location is provided some defense against ganking on PvP servers as it was harder to get to.

Also using your logic isn't Garnia blizzard griefing players? Hard to get to spot, takes a while to get there, some people still don't know about how you get there. Do they need to change the spawn location of Garnia as well so everyone has a fair shot at killing it? Is it griefing for me not to wait for people to take the Albatross up there? Its a four and a half minute ride from Celestial Arena to the lake Garnia spawns at?

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This isn't the same as buying the last apple from the store that the guy behind you wanted too. It's more like me double-parking my car behind yours. I'm just parking my car (or pulling the mob), but I know it's an inconvenience to you. That's griefing whether intentional or not.

Isn't requiring someone to pull them to your location inconveniencing them, and griefing them intentional or not? Why must everything be catered to you and made convenient to you? What is anything that is inconvenient griefing? If I get to a mining node before you do am I griefing you? I inconvenienced you by making you travel to a node for nothing.

[Count Zero]

So how long do you have to wait to kill a rare spawn on the Timeless isle before it is no longer considered griefing? Because killing something fast will prevent others from tagging/killing it. Some rare spawns, like Leafmender, die in about 30 seconds after someone spots them. Is killing him fast now considered griefing? I have prevented others from tagging/killing it based on the location it spawns.

Since you know not everyone is within 30 seconds of the spawn location. They weren't just pulling mobs were the accessibility is low. They were pulling it on the spawn point. Nothing says that because anyone can tag the mob that anyone has to be able to kill it. The location is provided some defense against ganking on PvP servers as it was harder to get to.

Also using your logic isn't Garnia blizzard griefing players? Hard to get to spot, takes a while to get there, some people still don't know about how you get there. Do they need to change the spawn location of Garnia as well so everyone has a fair shot at killing it? Is it griefing for me not to wait for people to take the Albatross up there? Its a four and a half minute ride from Celestial Arena to the lake Garnia spawns at?

Killing things fast is routine gameplay. There are multiple reasons to do it. The situations you mention are not analagous at all. The only reason to kill Huolon at his old spawn point is to prevent others from tagging it, which in no way benefits the person preventing them from tagging it. You can try to justify it all you want, but it's griefing.

[rhorle]

Killing things fast is routine gameplay. There are multiple reasons to do it. The situations you mention are not analagous at all. The only reason to kill Huolon at his old spawn point is to prevent others from tagging it, which in no way benefits the person preventing them from tagging it. You can try to justify it all you want, but it's griefing.

Killing things in locations that don't contain everyone that wants to kill the NPC is routine game play. But you aren't preventing anyone from tagging it, because they can reach the location you did with out using any exploits or hacks. They can reach your location through normal game play. A person that engages Huolon on the ground is preventing someone from tagging that mob as well. Because I can guarantee you that someone on another part of the island would be interested in the kill but not be able to make it before Huolon died.

Its routine game play to miss out on killing npcs that you are not located in range of your abilities. It happens every day on the Timeless Isle. You can create all the special rules you want that only apply to Huolon but it still is not griefing to kill an npc in a location that isn't accessible to every one else. Using your logic anyone who kills an NPC in the Ordon Sanctuary with out kiting it off of the plateau is griefing all of those who don't have the legendary cloak.

Oh thats right that is part of routine game play. To kill something in a location while purposefully denying others who can't access that location. Double Standards just because Huolon drops a mount.

[Count Zero]

Killing things in locations that don't contain everyone that wants to kill the NPC is routine game play. But you aren't preventing anyone from tagging it, because they can reach the location you did with out using any exploits or hacks. They can reach your location through normal game play. A person that engages Huolon on the ground is preventing someone from tagging that mob as well. Because I can guarantee you that someone on another part of the island would be interested in the kill but not be able to make it before Huolon died.

Its routine game play to miss out on killing npcs that you are not located in range of your abilities. It happens every day on the Timeless Isle. You can create all the special rules you want that only apply to Huolon but it still is not griefing to kill an npc in a location that isn't accessible to every one else. Using your logic anyone who kills an NPC in the Ordon Sanctuary with out kiting it off of the plateau is griefing all of those who don't have the legendary cloak.

Oh thats right that is part of routine game play. To kill something in a location while purposefully denying others who can't access that location. Double Standards just because Huolon drops a mount.

You are trying very hard to justify griefing, but none of these situations are analagous to what folks were doing with Huolon. Every single one of them could be changed by Blizz, but only what people were doing with Huolon was.

Why haven't they buffed his health so no matter where you are on the isle when he spawns, you have time to get to him ? And why did they move his spawn point ? Because those are two different situations.

[zorkuus]

it still is not griefing to kill an npc in a location that isn't accessible to every one else

That's not what we've been saying. We've said it's griefing because these people had every intention to deny the kill from others. Hell, they taunted general chat and clearly told their intentions (after the kill ofc). It may not be against the rules but it is griefing. Ganking isn't against the rules either but that doesn't stop it from being called ganking. You are really going out of your way to defend this kind of behavior so I guess you're one of the people who did it and in that case this discussion is over because it's obvious you're not going to change your mind or admit you were wrong.

[rhorle]

You are trying very hard to justify griefing, but none of these situations are analagous to what folks were doing with Huolon. Every single one of them could be changed by Blizz, but only what people were doing with Huolon was.

That is not proof it was griefing.

Why haven't they buffed his health so no matter where you are on the isle when he spawns, you have time to get to him ? And why did they move his spawn point ? Because those are two different situations.

But they are not two different situations. They are the same situations according to your reasons of why it was griefing. The only difference is one is Huolon and the other is not. Why is it that only Huolon is bound by the "can't kill it in a location everyone can't tag it" rule? Why is it that only Huolon is griefing but no other is?

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That's not what we've been saying. We've said it's griefing because these people had every intention to deny the kill from others. Hell, they taunted general chat and clearly told their intentions (after the kill ofc). It may not be against the rules but it is griefing. Ganking isn't against the rules either but that doesn't stop it from being called ganking. You are really going out of your way to defend this kind of behavior so I guess you're one of the people who did it and in that case this discussion is over because it's obvious you're not going to change your mind or admit you were wrong.

That is exactly what some people have said, and even what you said earlier (http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1432539-Huolon-quot-Griefing-quot-Your-thoughts?p=25215855&viewfull=1#post25215855). It is funny that just because I have a different opinion then you on something I must be guilty of doing this and wrong. Did people grief while doing this? Yes. Is it inherently griefing? No. Anything can become griefing depending on how the player acts. It has nothing to do with killing Huolon in its spawn point.

Killing Huolon at his spawn point is not griefing, it is routine game play. Just as killing anything else is. Just as killing something in a location that doesn't include everyone who wants to kill that npc is not griefing. Griefing happens as an independent action of the player.

[Dreknar20]

No. Anything can become griefing depending on how the player acts. It has nothing to do with killing Huolon in its spawn point.

Wiping in a dungeon, losing a BG, getting killed by Hogger - all cause 'grief' and inconvenience. Are all those now considered 'griefing' now?

[Count Zero]

That is not proof it was griefing.

But they are not two different situations. They are the same situations according to your reasons of why it was griefing. The only difference is one is Huolon and the other is not. Why is it that only Huolon is bound by the "can't kill it in a location everyone can't tag it" rule? Why is it that only Huolon is griefing but no other is?

If you lack the ability see how those are different situations, there is nothing more to say.

[dexx]

Cant believe the number of people here trying to justify obviously obnoxious behavior!

[LaplaceNoMa]

Some rare spawns, like Leafmender, die in about 30 seconds after someone spots them. Is killing him fast now considered griefing? I have prevented others from tagging/killing it based on the location it spawns.

Since you know not everyone is within 30 seconds of the spawn location.

Either your server is completely dead or you have some serious problems with your feel of time... Even the ship and the shark usually don't last more than ~20-25 seconds on my server, stuff like leafmender, spelurk, zesqua and other extremely low hp rares die literally in 5-6 seconds.