The Return of 40 Man Raiding

[PuppetShowJustice]

Ignore it. I did 72 man in EQ and 40 in vanilia. More people ≠ more fun to me, tends to downplay skill. IMO, if they made flex truly scale to 40, cool, would never do it but cool.

Man. Plane of Growth made me so sad back in the day.

System requirements rising in WoD + more raiders cramped in on your screen is a combination that Blizzard won't want to support.

Only world bosses will ever see those kinds of numbers again.

[Deleted]

I am seeing this excuse being used a lot. Are people still raiding on laptops or something? I don't recall the last time my FPS dipped under 31, and that was during a war with the horde while trying to bring down Galleon.

People don't have supercomputers.

[AeneasBK]

I wouldn't have any difficulty getting the people together if there was content in the game requiring 40 people. If it *could* happen without the oft mentioned technical issues (laaaaaaag) then FUCK YES.

It would be freaking epic* although honestly I think they would have to revolutionise the encounters; very few fights bar, maybe, Lei Shen this expansion would be suitable for a 40 man group (imagine 40 man Primordius /yawn).

They could make 40 man PvE scenarios, to work similar to world bosses; but to be more scenario-like rather than a single boss (even if he has adds). Off the top of my head:

Alterac Valley as a PvE 40 man scenario - essentially it is similar to the old AV, but with waves of horde NPCs spawning rather than horde players BUT WAIT. The objectives are all there, with the old Lieutenants as mini-bosses; but worked out much more like a proper MINI boss, so several abilities, maybe multiple phases, but something that can be done by about 15 people without too much trouble. These Lietenants buff the FWK Lieutenants + Drek with buffs as long as they are alive. You have to kill "Galvangar" and cap the first 2 towers. After first 2 bosses you progress further south, do the same with the FWK towers. Capping a GY stops the NPC waves spawning at that GY. Capping the mines buffs allied NPCs. Killing Drek'Thar is the final part of the encounter. BUT THERES MORE.

As soon as you engage the 2 Lieutenants "assassins" will periodically spawn to attack our Lieutenants and Balinda, and will need to be taken care of. If our Lieutenants die the assassins start spawning in Dun Baldar. If *those* Lieutenants are killed, the assassins will cap the Aid sation and NPC waves will beign to assault Vandaar.

The final rewards are there for killing Drek'Thar, comparable to the world boss of that tier (say 559 for this tier) There is, however, also a timer, and the faster you complete the encounter, coupled with how perfectly you complete it (no of allied deaths, no. of allied Lieutenants still alive etc.) will also reward bonus rewards, up to and including bonus loot bags for perfect completion (and fast) to bonus valor, satchels of exotic mysteries, VP etc.

So whilst this will be "puggable" to maximise the rewards you will want a relatively organised group and strategy, with assigned players to take care of the assassins spawning; groups assigned to take down each mini boss at the same time and also players free to keep back the waves of NPCs; maybe some assigned to venture further to early cap graveyards, or cap the mines to buff our NPCs... As the groups would be relatively spread out, the lag shouldn't be such a horrendous issue. I'd love to rock something along those lines. I merely used Alterac Valley as an easy referenced example; there could be so many EPIC encounters to make in such a format.

*Disclaimer: Potentially

[Deleted]

new idea, the top lvl of raiding should be 40 man as those players have the computer to handle a no lag raid.

[bmjclark]

Wouldn't be able to do it. My computer would explode. It was one thing with molten core and bwl where the spell effects were pretty minimal, but now i'd be willing to bet most people couldn't run it. Top of the line computers will even receive fps drops in 25 mans. Wow's engine is pretty awful now a days

[yunito]

for those with lag issue with 40 man.. get a new Actual gaming pc of this generation or/& upgrade your internet. cause no lag here and using a gaming pc made 6 years ago and on a freaking dsl.

[Huntermyth]

World bosses being more epic would require some sort of instance so as to not allow for zerging.

On 40 man, I would love it if they allowed flex to go up to 40 man atleast have some venue as to where you can get you big raid rocks off.

now imagine the tank damage ( taken, not done ) on that said 40 men flex.

doesn't sound logical right ? that's what i thought too.

[AeneasBK]

now imagine the tank damage ( taken, not done ) on that said 40 men flex.

doesn't sound logical right ? that's what i thought too.

Keep the damage the same, increase the rate that debuffs are applied - requires faster tank swaps = requires more tanks. Increase the raid damage so that it keeps the extra healers occupied...

[runedhill]

[Nostalgia] I wonder if 40 Man raiding will ever return in its glory to an epic scale. It would certainly make 10, 15, 20, and 25 man raids look laughable. So, question of the day: If 40 man raiding returned, would you go for it, ignore it, or quit? [/Nostalgia]

There was no glory, it wouldn't make other raids looks laughable. 40 man raids are pointless and weren't liked by anyone to begin with.
40 man raids would've been the bane of your existence had you played during Classic, which you obviously did not. The fake nostalgia people have on these forums is so ridiculous.
It's pretty bad knowing some people have played this game nearly every day for 9 years, but to pretend you've done it to make yourself look cool is infinitely worse.

[beanman12345]

I'll be playing wildstar cause the game is fun as fuck, but I won't be doing any of their 40 mans sadly, just don't have the time for organized raiding anymore.

[Draahl]

I got one word for you, "Wildstar". The return of 40 man raiding!

[Crainial]

[Nostalgia] I wonder if 40 Man raiding will ever return in its glory to an epic scale. It would certainly make 10, 15, 20, and 25 man raids look laughable. So, question of the day: If 40 man raiding returned, would you go for it, ignore it, or quit? [/Nostalgia]

As i fellow player who started back in vanilla i get where you are coming from. But lets face it.. Raiding back in vanilla was NEVER hard. People just weren't used to how to play. in a 40 man raid. there were 10-15 who gave their all and another 15 who was still learning their class while the last was just riding the carry train for free epixxx. (i was amongst the last due to my young age and no understanding of the game mechanics)
if 15 man with todays knowlegde raided back then, they could easily handle it. (with the possible exception of Maybe old naxx and AQ)

40 man raiding now would just be a hassle. i have been in a guild that have trouble just gathering 25 man for their raids, and have to stick with 10 man and flex because they can't get enough people to show up, with the skill to complete it. gathering 40 man would be hell.
And lets not even start on the lag man.. the lag would be horrible

But never let go of your treasure memories. Keep them and enjoy them. A new 40 man raid would only destroy them

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There was no glory, it wouldn't make other raids looks laughable. 40 man raids are pointless and weren't liked by anyone to begin with.
40 man raids would've been the bane of your existence had you played during Classic, which you obviously did not. The fake nostalgia people have on these forums is so ridiculous.
It's pretty bad knowing some people have played this game nearly every day for 9 years, but to pretend you've done it to make yourself look cool is infinitely worse.

Saying that there were no good times in old 40-man raids is not entirely true... i still remember going down with my warrior back in the day. First day in Molten core, using two-hand axes. The Earthshaker dropped, and i won it, despite never having trained my two hand mace skill ever.. so i spent the entire next day training the weapon skill to 300 so that i could use it without missing every attack, and then went down the next day to kill Gehennas where Obsidian Blade drop, Which i also won... and had to train to 300 as my sword skill ALSO was low. For me. That is fun memories.

i would never want another 40 man-raid ever, but back then, when it was what we had. it was fun for what it was

[lolzsec]

There was no glory, it wouldn't make other raids looks laughable. 40 man raids are pointless and weren't liked by anyone to begin with.
40 man raids would've been the bane of your existence had you played during Classic, which you obviously did not. The fake nostalgia people have on these forums is so ridiculous.
It's pretty bad knowing some people have played this game nearly every day for 9 years, but to pretend you've done it to make yourself look cool is infinitely worse.

i did play during vanilla, april of 05 is when i started. I did like it, and to say that no one did is just asinine. clearly you like to make up random stories and present them as fact. that's a great way to be overlooked when debating past events.

I enjoyed vanilla and TBC the most due to the server i played on, Burning Blade, had a great community and was very large in numbers. Back then there was more community and everyone pretty much knew everyone and their reputation preceded them. Back then there was purpose and involvement that seems to be lacking, atleast imo, today. Ofcourse, however, this may be due to that we were all new, ignorant players back then. it just seems to me that the immerse feeling that once was there is now gone.

40 mans were no harder to organize than 25mans. you will always have people that cant make times and whatnot. logistics, they were not really an issue for people that knew how to coordinate. that is why, class officers, imo, were more prevalent back then than they are today. back then the game was a time sink. it really isnt a time sink today, im speaking of raiding. back then it took quite a good long while to do a raid. progression took on average months. today its on the order of weeks.

from my pov, i think those that cant handle 40 mans or were not fortunate to experience them during their hayday, are the ones hating on them.

[Sansnom]

[Nostalgia] I wonder if 40 Man raiding will ever return in its glory to an epic scale. It would certainly make 10, 15, 20, and 25 man raids look laughable. So, question of the day: If 40 man raiding returned, would you go for it, ignore it, or quit? [/Nostalgia]

Nobody I know who raided 40 man liked it.

[Teph]

Always reading stuff like "10-15 were afk anyways or were slackers". Do you really believe that? I don't think we had any during bossfights in classic Naxx or AQ.

I think we would have seen those 10 people in the damage meter back then. Or Thaddius. Even one slacking wiped you.
Maybe the bad raids had bad people. But that has nothing to do with 40er.

[judgementofantonidas]

All these people claiming lag on world bosses...............

When what you are realling experiencing is bad frame rate which is on your end.

[Celista]

[Nostalgia] I wonder if 40 Man raiding will ever return in its glory to an epic scale. It would certainly make 10, 15, 20, and 25 man raids look laughable. So, question of the day: If 40 man raiding returned, would you go for it, ignore it, or quit? [/Nostalgia]

I thought there was an MMO coming out this year that's doing 40 man raiding again...

Wow could handle 40 man (instanced) raiding if they redid their engine to handle it, but I doubt that's going to happen at this point. The world bosses from this expansion were sufficient for my nostalgia purposes.

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All these people claiming lag on world bosses...............

When what you are realling experiencing is bad frame rate which is on your end.

Uh, we've crashed the server from world bosses on Area 52, performance issues in regards to world bosses isn't just on the user's end.

[blackhammer99]

40 man raiding didn't work because its just too many people to have around at the same time for a set period of time.
Another huge issue is balancing.
The way raiding works now is things are balanced down to a single player. In 40 man this is simply not possible, and in order to do it as well as could be possible would require tremendous resources.

The only reason people liked 40 man raiding was because they have nostaligic memories of Classic, not because they remember how difficult having 40 good players with PCs and internet that could handle the environment was.
25 man raiding, and now 20 man mythic is much more suitable and still presents the large-group leadership challenges that 10 man lacks.

[Lily Crowley]

I never raided 40 man but I've heard the epic tales of it and I have no doubt it was amazing back then, but times have changed, as other people before me have described.
Personally I don't think I could handle being in a 40 man-raid. What are the chances of me finding 39 other people who are not assholes and that have a pleasant disposition?
Shudder. But hey, if they made Flex go up to 40 then it could be the middle ground, you don't have to do it, but you can if you feel masochistic.

[Demsi]

Keeping 40 people organised is not that fun, the only reason vanilla raiding was "hard" was because of all the slackers