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  1. #761
    Quote Originally Posted by tohyatvc View Post
    So play another game? RPGs are designed around levelling.

    It can't be stressed enough that levelling is a core part of the content.

    WoW has a top-heavy content problem where nobody considers anything but raids actual content.

    Paying Blizzard MORE money should not be the solution.
    No, solo RPGs are designed around levelling. MMOs not so much because you need some sort of plateau where people can actually play together. Imagine how hard it would be to play with your friends if there was no level cap and end game content. WoW being top heavy is not a problem, it's a design choice.

    As far as levelling being "a core part of the content" it's really not. It's more of a mechanic just like the gearing system to prevent insane amounts of class stacking and flavour of the month rerolls.

  2. #762
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by tohyatvc View Post
    But Blizzard? They're convincing people to pay monthly, AND pay money to skip content!
    Indeed.

    Never underestimate milking strategies. Never.

    They priced $60 for lvl 90 chars because someone will pay for it. Plan and simple. That's the sad fact. And the beginning of a whole 'new' era for WoW.

    Wait for cash shop loot. Wait for it.

  3. #763
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tohyatvc View Post
    WoW has a top-heavy content problem where nobody considers anything but raids actual content.
    That is because you out level content, but you can't out level max level content (until the level cap is increased). This allows for a whole list of things that are not possible, or feasible, when you have to deal with people out leveling the content.

    There is nothing Blizzard can do to change this, leveling will always be the means to the end. They can redesign the leveling content as they did in Cataclysm. They can ease the leveling of secondary characters as they did with Heirlooms, EXP potions (drop from Rare in MoP), experience needed reductions, world event buffs, RaF etc.

    There isn't much more they can do to change the leveling process. There really isn't anything wrong with the leveling process either. Its quick, easy, and only takes time. A new player in WoD will have a free boost, so it is only a problem for alt characters. You can still level and level pretty fast if you know what you are doing or have friends.

    At launch of MoP you need around 97 million to get from 85 to 90 versus 128 million to get from 1 to level 85. The bulk of leveling done is spent at the current expansion. You can pay Blizzard money to skip the old leveling content if you want for additional characters.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by trauma443 View Post
    They priced $60 for lvl 90 chars because someone will pay for it. Plan and simple. That's the sad fact. And the beginning of a whole 'new' era for WoW.
    You can boost an alt to the last expansions level cap with RaF. It is not the beginning of a whole new era for WoW as boosts have been part of the game for a while. It is also priced where it is because that is the cost of buying a new account, WoD, and merging that account into your existing one. Which shows that they are offering the boost for the exact reasons they said they were. And that reason was the communities desire for a boost with out the need of doing the Account merge shuffle.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  4. #764
    Mechagnome Randec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    Because they do? They are limited in what they can do. They have X amount of people dedicated to X amount of tasks. They have X amount of space, taken up by both people and equipment. They have X amount of people recruiting. They have X amount of people in the area that are of the right quality, willing to move jobs, and join a growing team that could shrink later.

    You make it sound simple. It is not. They are a publicly traded company and therefore have limited headcount which has to be reported back to shareholders. They have limited resources. It's not like they can just magically make the massive amount of people needed just appear.
    Nothing of what you said makes any sense. They could only make the leveling process fun again only with unlimited people? They would need unlimited amounts of people and unlimited amounts of money to make a fun game? They need unlimited amounts of money and unlimited amounts of people to boost xp gains in low level zones? They need unlimited resources to produce new content? What are you going on about?

    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    Yes, because that's the same thing.
    You're the one who made the comparison. If you're not happy with it, you shouldn't have made it.

    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    I don't understand your point? Are you saying that you don't enjoy the content they've added to the game? Because an awful lot of people actually do...
    I'm saying it doesn't justify the sub fee. We're not receiving enough. Recolors and the same tired old holidays. Yay. Raids that should have been included in the xpac. Joy.

    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    What other MMO is even remotely like WoW
    Ah I see, you're going to avoid my question with a question of your own. Very sneaky. Here, I'll humor you.

    What other MMO is even remotely like WoW?

    Anarchy Online
    Final Fantasy
    Guild Wars 2
    City of Heroes
    Dark Age of Camelot
    Everquest
    LOTRO

    And every other MMO. But I think the problem lies in your misunderstanding of the world remotely.

    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    or has anywhere near the same level of experience and success? Look at other walks of life like cable companies, mobile companies, etc...
    Oh well they're successful! You didn't say that! Well then, by all means, they should be allowed to rip us off, like your example of cable and mobile companies. I've often said, "you know guys, I wish the videogame industry treated their customers more like the cable comanies and mobile providers."

    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    Explain. Explain A) Why it is that their efforts are meaningless, and B) Why you claim it is ineffective. Realms have more players in them at a wider array of levels. It isn't exactly ineffective.
    Their efforts are ineffective because I sat on a dead realm for about a year before my guildmates and I all got sick of it and re-rolled on another realm that wasn't dead. We were tired of our hour long que times, our dead capital zones, the stagnant AH and economy in general. That's still going on.

    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    Because you said something different? You said that you aren't paying for X. That is incorrect. That's why it isn't true.
    The dude in your original video said the price makes sense for a level 90 through blizzard because on the black market it costs way more. I said it costs way more on the black market because they actually level the character by hand so of course it's going to be more expensive than the boost blizzard is offering because blizzard can just hit a button or two and make you level 90.

    You countered that one of the services was from blizzard and the other was from a black market. You went on to say that blizzard can just hit a button or two and make a lot of stuff happen in the game. So I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, or what I said that was incorrect.
    Last edited by Randec; 2014-02-21 at 10:03 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Espe View Post
    I have, unfortunately, interacted with Randec on these forums before. I know what to expect from him.

  5. #765
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by brirrspliff View Post
    i think it should have been around the $600 mark.
    agreed

  6. #766
    Pandaren Monk Constraint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trauma443 View Post
    Indeed.

    Never underestimate milking strategies. Never.

    They priced $60 for lvl 90 chars because someone will pay for it. Plan and simple. That's the sad fact. And the beginning of a whole 'new' era for WoW.

    Wait for cash shop loot. Wait for it.
    I won't be around for that. And it saddens me, it really does. I can deal with the rampant homogenization, the diminishing of the drive for end-game raiding etc, but seeing a company milking its customers for cash this blatantly, with such absurd excuses, is simply a few steps too far. And as I said, it saddens me, because I've invested a colossal amount of time and money in this game. Well over $4000 since Vanilla, which is a little insane for one PC game.

    It also saddens me because so many people are openly embracing it. A few short years ago, if this sort of shit was pulled, there'd be a colossal outcry, I unconditionally guarantee it. But, since they've done it so slowly, and so carefully, and since the balance of playerbase has shifted so markedly over the years, they can and will get away with it, for a while at least.

    They need to remember that making amazing content will KEEP AND HOLD customers - offering services for shortcuts, cheapening content, removing the driving force behind wanting to improve your game, really doesn't help the game in the LONG run. It really isn't rocket science. Great games sell THEMSELVES. Desperate games nickel-and-dime their customers while they can.

  7. #767
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by crakerjack View Post
    LoL?? 90 isn't the finish line... defeating Heroic garrosh or obtaining gladiator is the finish line, I'm sorry bud, but you are still a great distance from the finish line.
    There is no finish line since the game never ends wish people would stop thinking this is game breaking its not its actually a good descision in the long term think about 5 years from now we will have level 125 or 150 if its 10 levels per expansion do you really think people want to level from 1-125 or 150 no they dnt the reason purchasable 90's is a good idea is cos not everyone spends every fucking minute on wow they have jobs,hobbies kids etc the only people against this are dumbass kids who are the normal people who complain about blizzard i bet you bitched about factio nchange when it came out to. sick of the dumb fuckers on this forum just thinking in the here and now when this feature is more for long term and the future and even if its not you aint forced to buy it so either STFU quit the game and let ppl who want this service pay for it its not gonna affect your life in anyway is it

  8. #768
    Pandaren Monk Constraint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by warcraftmew View Post
    There is no finish line since the game never ends wish people would stop thinking this is game breaking its not its actually a good descision in the long term think about 5 years from now we will have level 125 or 150 if its 10 levels per expansion do you really think people want to level from 1-125 or 150 no they dnt the reason purchasable 90's is a good idea is cos not everyone spends every fucking minute on wow they have jobs,hobbies kids etc the only people against this are dumbass kids who are the normal people who complain about blizzard i bet you bitched about factio nchange when it came out to. sick of the dumb fuckers on this forum just thinking in the here and now when this feature is more for long term and the future and even if its not you aint forced to buy it so either STFU quit the game and let ppl who want this service pay for it its not gonna affect your life in anyway is it
    I'm still against the concept in general, but why slap a big pricetag on it, as opposed to making it a free service?

    If it's so irrelevant, and if it's driving new players away from the game (both arguments hold some merit) then why isn't there a free OPTION to skip the content?

    Pardon me for being cynical, but as a new player, buying WoD, MoP, battle chest etc, then receiving a free 90, then realizing if they want another character they have to either spend weeks in content for which they couldn't care less about (why would they care, they were able to skip it the first time) OR pay a whopping 60 DOLLARS (which is FAR more than the cost of a AAA game, for the record), you could imagine being more than a little peeved.

    If the content's tedious and irrelevant, either find a remedy to this or make it SKIPPABLE for everyone, not just those with disposable income. How does that make any sense whatsoever? Is only their time worth something? This is a FANTASY game - why should IRL circumstances come into the equation, beyond paying for the game and subscription in the first place?

    If the content's relevant and interesting, on the other hand, why offer the service to skip it in the first place? It still tells an amazing story, after all.

    I think we all know the answer to this though.

    $

    OT - cookies to whichever mod renames the thread to "Reasons" instead of "Reason's"

  9. #769
    god; get a job if this seems expensive. I don't get what peoples issues are over paying $60 for a boost. If it was double people would still buy it.

  10. #770
    ya know I was in the "kinda steep" camp but after the cluster fuck of a TBC dungeon I just had...it should be double and require Quintessential Quintet achievement. The amount of just outright stupidity in lvling dungeons makes LFR look like a skip through the tulips...imagine that at 90.

  11. #771
    Mechagnome Randec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisxor View Post
    god; get a job if this seems expensive. I don't get what peoples issues are over paying $60 for a boost. If it was double people would still buy it.
    I have a good paying job. Even if I had Scrooge McBlizzard money, 60 dollars is too much. It's not that it's not affordable. It's totally affordable. It's just ridiculously expensive. I pay what things are worth. If I don't think it's worth it, I'm not going to buy it. No matter how much money I have.
    Quote Originally Posted by Espe View Post
    I have, unfortunately, interacted with Randec on these forums before. I know what to expect from him.

  12. #772
    Leveling needs a serious overhaul and this means of addressing it is an indication that a real, player friendly, solution may never happen. WoW is end-game heavy, but how do we invite new players there? Or even convince ourselves to try new alts? It's a significant barrier to "entry".

  13. #773
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Warfare View Post
    But whats next? Buying Achievements/Gear/professions. Whats the point of an MMO if you can buy your way to the finish.
    We're not there yet so you can't pull that card.

    Buying a boost to skip 90% of leveling content, while not making you or your character unfairly stronger, for a very high price set to deter people away from just casually buying it - it's a great idea.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Randec View Post
    I have a good paying job. Even if I had Scrooge McBlizzard money, 60 dollars is too much. It's not that it's not affordable. It's totally affordable. It's just ridiculously expensive. I pay what things are worth. If I don't think it's worth it, I'm not going to buy it. No matter how much money I have.
    Which is great. You still have the option to level your characters without paying a cent over the subscription fee.

  14. #774
    This whole thread reminds me of that bag of shit webcomic.

  15. #775
    The way I see it, before the $60 reveal, we had no idea who this was marketed at. $60 is a perfect price point for people who work all day and don't have time to level, so we can safely assume that they are who this is aimed at. Though there are also other groups of people, such as people who already leveled 6 times and they want another alt to dick around on, or people who already leveled their main but don't like their class and want to play something else instead. For these people, $60 is a bit much.

    Now was this smart price? Well I can't speak for the overall population, from my own perspective, no. At a $25-30 price point, I would have definitely bought three 90's (hunter, druid, monk, pally, whichever I didn't use the free boost on) which would have been $75-90 for Blizzard. At $60 I *might* buy one. So overall, Blizzard will be getting less money from me, though this is far from a strong sample size.

  16. #776
    Quote Originally Posted by Drilnos View Post
    If you don't buy it, you're not being ripped off.
    Now that a paid instant level 90 service is in place, Blizzard has no incentive to improve the leveling experience. Blizzard would be be crazy to improve the level experience, because if people enjoy leveling, they won't buy L90s. Old raid dungeons will continue to be left unused. The same 4 classes will dominate low level pvp and players will continue to be killed in less than 3 seconds. Low level dungeons will continue to be speed races with 4 tanks and a healer.

    Don't Wow players deserve a better leveling experience, instead of having to pay to avoid it?

  17. #777
    Quote Originally Posted by adorich View Post
    Now that a paid instant level 90 service is in place, Blizzard has no incentive to improve the leveling experience. Blizzard would be be crazy to improve the level experience, because if people enjoy leveling, they won't buy L90s. Old raid dungeons will continue to be left unused. The same 4 classes will dominate low level pvp and players will continue to be killed in less than 3 seconds. Low level dungeons will continue to be speed races with 4 tanks and a healer.

    Don't Wow players deserve a better leveling experience, instead of having to pay to avoid it?
    Blizzard improved the leveling in Cata, and had to put up with years of whining about how it was the worst expansion ever made. Atleast this way they can make some money of the whiners.

  18. #778
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisxor View Post
    god; get a job if this seems expensive. I don't get what peoples issues are over paying $60 for a boost. If it was double people would still buy it.
    That they have to work for it lol. Or if they don't have a job or income. That would be even worse. So a lot of tush hurting going on.

  19. #779
    Quote Originally Posted by Azrile View Post
    Massive step.. slippery slope.. bad taste in your mouth.

    You failed to use Strawman and Slap In the Face

    Please try harder next time.

    $60 perfectly competes with the Cost of the expansion + Account transfer, which was their goal. This is not a service they really want to sell, but what they really wanted the boost90 as part of WoD to bring back old players and attract new players who might not want to start so far behind their friends. If they give the boost90 free with WoD, then they realized current players might try to use it to boost-transfer... so they offered this service to make that process easier. While the tinfoil hat people may not believe it, this service really wasn´t their gameplan. Their gameplan was the boost90 for returning/new players, this is just collateral damage.
    You are absolutely right, they are doing this...for us.

    Oh, how benevolent they are...

    There isnt an emote for how much I am rolling my eyes right now.

  20. #780
    Quote Originally Posted by Constraint View Post
    I'm still against the concept in general, but why slap a big pricetag on it, as opposed to making it a free service?

    If it's so irrelevant, and if it's driving new players away from the game (both arguments hold some merit) then why isn't there a free OPTION to skip the content?

    Pardon me for being cynical, but as a new player, buying WoD, MoP, battle chest etc, then receiving a free 90, then realizing if they want another character they have to either spend weeks in content for which they couldn't care less about (why would they care, they were able to skip it the first time) OR pay a whopping 60 DOLLARS (which is FAR more than the cost of a AAA game, for the record), you could imagine being more than a little peeved.

    If the content's tedious and irrelevant, either find a remedy to this or make it SKIPPABLE for everyone, not just those with disposable income. How does that make any sense whatsoever? Is only their time worth something? This is a FANTASY game - why should IRL circumstances come into the equation, beyond paying for the game and subscription in the first place?

    If the content's relevant and interesting, on the other hand, why offer the service to skip it in the first place? It still tells an amazing story, after all.

    I think we all know the answer to this though.

    $

    OT - cookies to whichever mod renames the thread to "Reasons" instead of "Reason's"
    It's not FAR more at all, it is nearly the exact same price. Titanfall is a pretty big release in the next few months, that is $59.99. If 1c is FAR more, then I think you have some major issues.

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