best disc priest world

[Deleted]

who is best disc world?

[Deleted]

The best Disc Priest in the world is probably in one of the top 100 guilds. Which one is the best? Impossible to tell. Could even be a casual in one of the top 1000 guilds, but unlikely.

[MyCelar]

The best Disc Priest in the world is probably in one of the top 100 guilds. Which one is the best? Impossible to tell. Could even be a casual in one of the top 1000 guilds, but unlikely.

Pretty much. Doubt there is a ''best disc priest''

[Dracodraco]

Hard to define best. What would be your definition?
The one with the best ranks overall (by a *mile*) is Quiray on Frostmane. 900 Points ahead of number 2, 99th percentile. Yet he doesn't have a single rank 1.

[Deleted]

Hard to define best. What would be your definition?
The one with the best ranks overall (by a *mile*) is Quiray on Frostmane. 900 Points ahead of number 2, 99th percentile. Yet he doesn't have a single rank 1.

Ye because ranks mean so much as a healer..... "Please raid stand in fire, I get rankz"

[Deleted]

Untill you try them all out 1v1 in a raid you would never know. The best one is obviously the one who can keep the higher hps output, the better tank healing, the more dispels and has higher survivability. Proraiders only keep track of one of those things.

Hard to define best. What would be your definition?
The one with the best ranks overall (by a *mile*) is Quiray on Frostmane. 900 Points ahead of number 2, 99th percentile. Yet he doesn't have a single rank 1.

Someone like Quiray probably rigged it so that he gets all the ranks, if you look at his guilds armory you will see that he is an officer in his guild.

[Ettan]

Lord Hydra

[Anzen]

Untill you try them all out 1v1 in a raid you would never know. The best one is obviously the one who can keep the higher hps output, the better tank healing, the more dispels and has higher survivability. Proraiders only keep track of one of those things.


Someone like Quiray probably rigged it so that he gets all the ranks, if you look at his guilds armory you will see that he is an officer in his guild.

Pool up!
I'm full, someone else will have to soak...
Fine, I'll soak it.
DONT YOU FUCKING DARE SOAK THAT POOL

[Deleted]

Hard to define best. What would be your definition?
The one with the best ranks overall (by a *mile*) is Quiray on Frostmane. 900 Points ahead of number 2, 99th percentile. Yet he doesn't have a single rank 1.

Healing ranks mean absolutely nothing since they are lowered if you have good players and good co-healers in the group. I take pride in my guild having very few healing ranks, that's a good thing. (Our healers get dps ranks on Warcraftlogs though, and that's nice too)

Someone like Quiray probably rigged it so that he gets all the ranks, if you look at his guilds armory you will see that he is an officer in his guild.

A lot of fights can be 1-healed (or 2-3 healed on 25). I can imagine a group of 580 players with 14/14 farm can 1-heal (or 2-3) every single fight. Couple that with letting the raid members being ordered to take extra damage when there's not much going on, I'm pretty sure it's "easy" to get top 10 ranks on almost every fight, except perhaps Garrosh if a lot of guilds have been experimenting a lot with 1-healing (2-3).

- - - Updated - - -

Pool up!
I'm full, someone else will have to soak...
Fine, I'll soak it.
DONT YOU FUCKING DARE SOAK THAT POOL

Yeah, probably killing 4 adds at once leaving the orbs + small adds up, then they pop BL for him to keep up.

[derevka]

I hesitate to even reply to threads like these as they are just trollish often...

Ranks, WCL, WoL, proraiders etc... Are horrible measures of "is a healer good". It swings wildly based on raid comp. great example is if a raid has multiple disc priests. Both dilute each other simpy by nature of absorb order priority.

Is there a way to see of a healer is PLAYING properly? Sure by crawling logs and damage patterns when compared to incoming damage.

Tldr: nearly impossible to tell. But ranks don't tell the story at all.

[Deleted]

A little off-topic, but have you seen Nazgrim 25hc dps ranks? They're keeping shamans + bladestorm adds alive from the trash, then they have a few players (and a tank) just sitting on that pack nuking with everything they have for the whole fight. Loads of 1mil dps ranks, this is also a reason why ranks can never be a measurement of skill.

[Nyflye]

PvE won't give you an accurate count of the best players, considering PvE is team-oriented (on a pretty large scale)

Realistically, the best disc priests are probably Khryl, Zunniyaki and/or Lord Hydra.

[Pinkbyte]

PvE won't give you an accurate count of the best players, considering PvE is team-oriented (on a pretty large scale)

Realistically, the best disc priests are probably Khryl, Zunniyaki and/or Lord Hydra.

Realistically how did you come to that conclusion (Khryl, Zunniyaki and/or Lord Hydra)???

[Dracodraco]

ITT: Lots of people actually believing that healer ranks aren't a good measure of the output that a disc priest is capable of and the skill thereof. Oh my.
That being said, you are right for every other healer but disc (and possibly paladins), as healing done by druids, monks, shamans will just turn into useless overhealing. Due to the low overhealing factor of disc, and the fact that absorbs goes first, disc is probably the *only* healer who should care about the healing "meters" to see how "good" they are. It doesn't matter if you're in a raid with the best resto shaman, mistweaver and druid as a disc - your healing goes first. This means that they won't get ranked, but it doesn't matter to a disc how "good" the other healers are. If they play well/correct, their output WILL correlate in a rank, no matter the other factors. The only thing that might have a minor effect is the damage taken by the raid, and even that is *minor*, as you'll generally have more than enough incomming raid damage to rank if you can manage to push enough output to combat it.
Face it, really - disc *IS* the "DPS" healer. That even goes as far as dedicating the way you should look at the output.
As for Quiray's logs being "rigged"; probably. It's not like every other high ranking (top 3-5) player doesn't have "rigged" logs, though, so kind of a moot point.
What I can say is that it's extremely hard to "rig" a lot of fights this tier for healers. A few examples where Quiray shines that doesn't seem to be "rigged" in any way -
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-xz...?s=7018&e=7452 500K on thok.
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-xz...?s=3506&e=3735 380K on juggernaut (no mines exploded).
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-p1...?s=2289&e=2612 600K on Norushen (30 hits of residual corruption. Note that our farm kill this week, with zero "rigging" going on had +50 hits of residual corruption going out, in a fight that was a minute faster. Clearly, they're actually pretty damn good at soaking the balls ASAP).

All that said, I'm sure people will disagree, and feel free to do so. I just can't help but think that people who discount disc priest HPS ranks are doing so because of one of two reasons -
1: They aren't ranking themselves, so the ranks must be bullshit.
or
2: They haven't entirely understood how disc healing works yet.

[Voidsinger]

To me, the best disc priests are the ones that drive theorycrafting and the 'science' of healing. Again, healing 'ranks' mean close to nothing - easy to rig, and you actual want the less HPS in the most efficient manner possible because it means you're in a good raid, not a shitty one where you have to go crazy with heals.

[Deleted]

What I can say is that it's extremely hard to "rig" a lot of fights this tier for healers. A few examples where Quiray shines that doesn't seem to be "rigged" in any way -

If those logs are not rigged im the queen of england. Again he is probably the healing officer so he gets to decide how many healers his guild is using, sitting healers so he can rank is rigging it. No offence to him or his fellow raiders, there is no doubt he is a really good healer but here are some facts, either his co healers are below average skill for a guild at their level or he is telling them to stop healing so he can heal more. Yes disc priests are broken but they should never ever do double the healing of a holy paladin on a fight like thok or iron juggernaut.

[Deleted]

ITT: Lots of people actually believing that healer ranks aren't a good measure of the output that a disc priest is capable of and the skill thereof. Oh my.
That being said, you are right for every other healer but disc (and possibly paladins), as healing done by druids, monks, shamans will just turn into useless overhealing. Due to the low overhealing factor of disc, and the fact that absorbs goes first, disc is probably the *only* healer who should care about the healing "meters" to see how "good" they are. It doesn't matter if you're in a raid with the best resto shaman, mistweaver and druid as a disc - your healing goes first. This means that they won't get ranked, but it doesn't matter to a disc how "good" the other healers are. If they play well/correct, their output WILL correlate in a rank, no matter the other factors. The only thing that might have a minor effect is the damage taken by the raid, and even that is *minor*, as you'll generally have more than enough incomming raid damage to rank if you can manage to push enough output to combat it.
Face it, really - disc *IS* the "DPS" healer. That even goes as far as dedicating the way you should look at the output.
As for Quiray's logs being "rigged"; probably. It's not like every other high ranking (top 3-5) player doesn't have "rigged" logs, though, so kind of a moot point.
What I can say is that it's extremely hard to "rig" a lot of fights this tier for healers. A few examples where Quiray shines that doesn't seem to be "rigged" in any way -
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-xz...?s=7018&e=7452 500K on thok.
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-xz...?s=3506&e=3735 380K on juggernaut (no mines exploded).
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-p1...?s=2289&e=2612 600K on Norushen (30 hits of residual corruption. Note that our farm kill this week, with zero "rigging" going on had +50 hits of residual corruption going out, in a fight that was a minute faster. Clearly, they're actually pretty damn good at soaking the balls ASAP).

All that said, I'm sure people will disagree, and feel free to do so. I just can't help but think that people who discount disc priest HPS ranks are doing so because of one of two reasons -
1: They aren't ranking themselves, so the ranks must be bullshit.
or
2: They haven't entirely understood how disc healing works yet.

Sounds like we have a fanboy over here. Yes, if you're rank 10+ on a healing fight, chances are you're very good. It doesn't really mean you're the best though. If you have bad co-healers or if people take more damage, you will do more hps. You can't get higher hps from just spam healing "the right target at the right time" if there's nothing to heal.

You do know hps doesn't take overhealing into account, right?


And 500k Thok? Wtf. We 2 heal and 1 tank Thok, push him to 50% in the first phase, we basically only have 2 phase 1s and very little kiting when we kill him. Our two healers have around 250-300k hps. Sure, 10man, but considering PoH and the nature of the fight, that doesn't really matter too much.

Don't tell me they don't rig it.

[Dracodraco]

If those logs are not rigged im the queen of england. Again he is probably the healing officer so he gets to decide how many healers his guild is using, sitting healers so he can rank is rigging it. No offence to him or his fellow raiders, there is no doubt he is a really good healer but here are some facts, either his co healers are below average skill for a guild at their level or he is telling them to stop healing so he can heal more. Yes disc priests are broken but they should never ever do double the healing of a holy paladin on a fight like thok or iron juggernaut.

Sitting healers is common practice during farm. I don't think you'll see a lot of guilds that killed Garrosh back in november (~top 50) still using 8 healers on thok, simply because it isn't needed anymore - they will be using 5-6 because gear etc has improved. Does this count as "rigging" the fight? Same goes for juggernaut - progress had you using 6-7 healers, now 4-5 is common for the guilds that's been farming for months, because "lolgear". When does dropping a healer when a healer isn't needed go from "natural" to "rigging"?
As for the fact that disc shouldn't do double a hpally on juggernaut, we can only agree. The issue is that in a ~50 guild like GG, you can't really expect everyone to be of "equal" skill (especially a country-based guild - they're swedish only). Sure, the rank 1 hpally shouldn't (and won't) be doing half the healing of the rank 1 priest... But What about the rank 50 hpally? Or rank 100? Or 200? Obviously, the gap is only going to get wider.
Basicly, put it like this - you've got the rank 1... Let's say mage, in a raid. And a rank 200 warlock. Sure, warlocks are broken, and they should never get beaten by a mage, but guess what - this warlock will get his shit stomped out of him by the mage, simply because the mage is that much better of a player.

As for telling them to stop healing, I don't see that in the graphs (nowhere do they dip while he spikes), so it's either the "below average skill" scenario, or the fact that you just can't get as much healing out when there's a proper disc in the raid.

Sounds like we have a fanboy over here. Yes, if you're rank 10+ on a healing fight, chances are you're very good. It doesn't really mean you're the best though. If you have bad co-healers or if people take more damage, you will do more hps. You can't get higher hps from just spam healing "the right target at the right time" if there's nothing to heal.

You do know hps doesn't take overhealing into account, right?


And 500k Thok? Wtf. We 2 heal and 1 tank Thok, push him to 50% in the first phase, we basically only have 2 phase 1s and very little kiting when we kill him. Our two healers have around 250-300k hps. Sure, 10man, but considering PoH and the nature of the fight, that doesn't really matter too much.

Don't tell me they don't rig it.

I'm a fanboy to the extent that I admire people who are able to push their class to the very extent that it can go. I don't follow quiray, though, and honestly, last time I looked at the rankings for disc, it was Stew who was number one but he's like... Waaaay down there now it seems, for some reason.

Going to answer your third point before the first 2, as it will make much more sense to get it out of the way -
500K on thok is not at all "rigged". I've pushed 450K a few months ago, completly unrigged, and was consistently at 430-440K for the weeks up to me switching to my hunter. You are comparing a fight you've seen in 10 man (where your healers can get to 250-300K hps), to a fight in 25 man where the damage scaling is *immense*. Put it this way - we accepted a disc on trial in my guild (kriegs) a few months ago. Taking the info directly from epeenbot,

12/5/13

5m 40s

220,102

95

The 5th december he did 220K hps on thok, giving him a 95th percentile.
The week after that, I did this:

12/12/13

6m 49s

428,811

95

As you can see, the same percentile, but HPS is almost double of what it was in 10 man. It's highly unlikely one week would move the percentile anything major, either. But it's quite clear that there's *significantly* more damage going out in 25 man than in 10 man for disc priests, if the same percentile is almost half in 10 as it is in 25.
To just cement that, his best output in 25 man so far has been 460K (or more than double what he did in 10 man). Same player, a little extra gear (but not alot), and a 100% output increase.
So, no. Thok isn't rigged. If you think it is, feel free to point out where exactly you see evidence of it, apart from your comparison to 10 man.

As for the other two points;
"You can't get higher hps from just spam healing the right target at the right time if there's nothing to heal", and "you do know hps doesn't take overhealing into account, right?"
they can be largely answered with one word:
Absorbs.

Untill you see people solo-healing 25 man bosses (and I'm sure some nutcase, probably a russian, will try and do just that), it means that there's more healing for absorbs to soak up. If you need more than one healer, it means that you can't attain the output needed to survive a boss with just the one healer (be it because of burst like Garrosh, or just constant attrition). This means that if you have a fight like say, Juggernaut, with 5 healers, you can *ALWAYS* do more HPS by hitting the right target at the right time, or covering wider with absorbs. You'll get higher HPS from spamming the raid with PoH for the absorb coverage than you will by smiting on fights like Protectors and Juggernaut, where constant, mild raid damage is going out.
And this is where overhealing come into play - because of the nature of absorbs, disc is "Protected" from overhealing more so than any other healer. Simply put, as the "heal" you throw out sits around and waits for 15 seconds before it dissappears (rather than going *POOF* and fade into nothingness instantly for "normal" healers), throwing out heals even with zero damage going out will still end up increasing your output. It'll just lower everyone elses, because everything is being absorbed. So sure - a mistweaver/shaman/druid can probably throw out what, DOUBLE the output of a disc priest if they really throw themselves into it. It just doesn't matter, as 80% of it will turn into overhealing on most fights. Disc on the other hand, with their relatively meager output, doesn't get the whole "overhealing" thing, and thus end up higher than the raw output healers because of it.

[Deleted]

ITT: Lots of people actually believing that healer ranks aren't a good measure of the output that a disc priest is capable of and the skill thereof. Oh my.
That being said, you are right for every other healer but disc (and possibly paladins), as healing done by druids, monks, shamans will just turn into useless overhealing. Due to the low overhealing factor of disc, and the fact that absorbs goes first, disc is probably the *only* healer who should care about the healing "meters" to see how "good" they are. It doesn't matter if you're in a raid with the best resto shaman, mistweaver and druid as a disc - your healing goes first. This means that they won't get ranked, but it doesn't matter to a disc how "good" the other healers are. If they play well/correct, their output WILL correlate in a rank, no matter the other factors. The only thing that might have a minor effect is the damage taken by the raid, and even that is *minor*, as you'll generally have more than enough incomming raid damage to rank if you can manage to push enough output to combat it.
Face it, really - disc *IS* the "DPS" healer. That even goes as far as dedicating the way you should look at the output.
As for Quiray's logs being "rigged"; probably. It's not like every other high ranking (top 3-5) player doesn't have "rigged" logs, though, so kind of a moot point.
What I can say is that it's extremely hard to "rig" a lot of fights this tier for healers. A few examples where Quiray shines that doesn't seem to be "rigged" in any way -
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-xz...?s=7018&e=7452 500K on thok.
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-xz...?s=3506&e=3735 380K on juggernaut (no mines exploded).
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-p1...?s=2289&e=2612 600K on Norushen (30 hits of residual corruption. Note that our farm kill this week, with zero "rigging" going on had +50 hits of residual corruption going out, in a fight that was a minute faster. Clearly, they're actually pretty damn good at soaking the balls ASAP).

All that said, I'm sure people will disagree, and feel free to do so. I just can't help but think that people who discount disc priest HPS ranks are doing so because of one of two reasons -
1: They aren't ranking themselves, so the ranks must be bullshit.
or
2: They haven't entirely understood how disc healing works yet.

I am ranking and always will be ranking and I still stick by my point that it means absolutely nothing. It relies heavily on what composition you are running. We could solo heal garrosh heroic, but we arent, does that mean I am a bad priest because my guild decides to go with an additional healer? If I tell the other healer to lay off the healing will that make me any better? If im using dps cloak because we want to skip the whole 2nd intermission, im losing precious hps ranks, does this make me a bad healer? If im using attonement more than usual to push the boss dps as much as possible because we dont need more healing before phase 3, does this make me a bad healer? If im helping on both siege engineers so we dont have to send our lock (only one that can solo reliably) who can shadowburn 6 adds on garrosh to boost dps, im losing hps, am I a bad healer?

I agree with you about the shields and all, but there are so many more factors that make a good healer than HPS ranks. It relies on your composition, how good people are at moving out of things... etc etc.. I could go on and on and show you more examples in other fights, but I think you get the picture.

[Talhooo]

Quiray is the real deal. Sure there might be some rigged fights, but if you would have seen their progression fights you'd all shut up.

Btw it's possible he's someone from memento mori, that guild (GoodGame) has some ex-mm. They only started around MoP, I expect them to get into top30 easily next expansion.