1. #1161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrowstormen View Post
    Blizzard wouldn't restrict flying "just because they can". Whatever content they've got planned for WoD, they obviously believe it will be better without the ability to fly. Instead of complaining about the lack of flying, it would be more interesting to discuss potential why's. The former has proven to only bring cheap conflict.
    That's a fine argument if you only believe that it's only the thought that counts. I'm sure it will seem great for the first 5 minutes until everyone gets used to the geography and travels around more mindlessly than they do on a flying mount that could send them into the middle of the sea. Unless you think Blizzard plans on making us do in-game puzzles while we ride our ground mount, then there's very little chance that the perceived benefit will play much of a role.

  2. #1162
    Lets just take a step back a second what content do players believe that blizz can provide if they don't allow flying?

    IMO stuff definitely has more of an impact if you see it on the ground for the first time, and the world seems larger, but they would get that even if flying was unlocked at max level.

    I'll be a bit dissappointed if its just a bunch of jumping puzzles or if they put more rare mobs with rewards in because one guy can't zoom around on his flying mount farming them all as they spawn, I guess they can provide the "fel reaver experience" were you get an audio queue something big and nasty is coming and then panic a bit.

    The have 100% stated they will focus a lot on flightpoints and making sure you can travel around the world efficiently and will have failed if it feels annoying and takes too long.

  3. #1163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Botter View Post
    And not a single fuck was given.

    I would love there to be no flying for many reasons.

    1. I love exploring games. in Skyrim I never used the mounts just walked.

    2. I would love to see the butt hurt from people this bothers.

    **not really many reasons***
    First you can do already. Second isn't valid.

  4. #1164
    Elemental Lord clevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raeln View Post
    Daily quests have been in the game nearly as long as flying mounts and they are getting axed for the most part, from what I've gathered.
    I'm betting dailies will be around. They might call them 'dynamic events' or something, but they'll be periodic things that you do for some reason (rep, tokens, etc).

    There is really not much they can really do to limit the power of flying mounts without breaking them in some way. Likely the least confusing way to do it is actually disable them on the latest content in the game, then re-enable them later.
    Actually, it's never bothered me to have them not work while leveling. That is a pretty good compromise between taking time to design leveling content to account for flight (see below) and preserving the integrity of the content.I'm not a fan of no flight until 6.1 and then jumping through artificial hoops to get flight back when I've had it before, but it's not a huge deal to me.
    So you would be fine if the devs spent an unknown number of hours and dollars to design weather-based mechanics, air currents, fake ceilings, airborne roaming elite NPCs, a "fuel/energy" resource for flying mounts or any other concept to act as a trade-off for the "godmode" that flying mounts give to players?
    Did you play TBC? Remember Nagrand and the anti-aircraft around towns? And yes, I'd be FINE with the devs fully designing for flying mounts. They SHOULD design for what the players can do. It's silly to have player flight in the game for 3/4 of its lifetime and still complain that you can't design with it in mind.


    As for me getting off my flying mount and using a ground mount - uh, thanks - that basically means that I will be barely able to gather any mining/herb nodes as I watch all the 450%+ fliers swoop and grab them before I can get there. Solid plan, brah.
    There is no trade-off for using flying mounts. They can be used everywhere you can use a ground mount. There is absolutely no trade-off for choosing a flyer over ground, at any time.

    If the area is flyable and it's not an enemy NPC camp/city - it's like typing /godmode & /noclip.[/quote]

    So fly when you gather and don't fly otherwise. But don't fly everywhere and then bitch about flying killing immersion or something. And you know what? That's right, flying has been around for 7 years. Just get used to it.


    Really?

    Ever heard of surface to air missiles? RPGs? SAMs?

    How about the production and maintenance costs of airplanes compared to land-based vehicles?
    really? You whine at me that they can't design around flight, then give examples of precisely how they could do it. As for cost? Flying is expensive (and was more expensive before), kind of like your example. Funny, that...

    How about how you can't land 99% of the airplanes in the world without a very costly airstrip - which essentially means your example of military based air support is more akin to flightpaths than flying mounts, since air force missions have to start at X and end at Y locations. The real world isn't like Agents of Shield where their jumbojet can just set down in someone's backyard with their magical VTOL engines.

    Bad analogy is bad.
    Yay, you understand the analogies aren't perfectly precise. You must have passed Logic 101. In case this goes past you, NO analogies are never perfect. That's not their use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrowstormen View Post
    Blizzard wouldn't restrict flying "just because they can". Whatever content they've got planned for WoD, they obviously believe it will be better without the ability to fly.
    Think about that for a second. You're the lead on WoD for Blizzard.... flying has been in the game for the last 7 years... and you design content that you believe will be better if you remove a capability for your players.

    Does that sound bright? Intelligent? To me it sounds idiotic. It would be like designing content outdoors and disabling ground mounts or disallowing the ability to, say, get out of combat.
    Last edited by clevin; 2014-03-12 at 06:09 AM.

  5. #1165
    No flying is fine, just don't make the flight master routes completely retarded.

  6. #1166
    I very much doubt they would restrict flying totally when one of the main selling points of the collectors edition (or digital-whatever edition) is a Flying Mount!

    That would be a very silly move indeed from the marketing team.

  7. #1167
    I doubt they would remove flying completely. They will probably never do another zone that requires flying.

    I really like that they are making it that flying wont be enabled until the first major patch. It's nice seeing people running everywhere and traveling and not just flying over everything.

    Also makes world pvp more fun.

  8. #1168
    Deleted
    Personally, I think flying was one of the worst additions to the game.


    You no longer look into distant places and speculate what wonders might await us there.
    No incredible vistas designed to be seen from one place.
    It shrinks the world, and forces island design on every x-pack, while we could have massive worlds with only parts being accessible, like old Azeroth.

    Now everyone is seen that/been there , afk on mount in air while waiting for loot pinata to spawn.
    Days of adventuring to hostile territories are gone.

  9. #1169
    The only reason I wouldn't like no flying is for gathering mats. BUT...Garrisons may sort that with the whole extended tillers' concept. I hope it does. Send companions out to gather mats ala SWTOR and then there is genuinely no need for flying. I'm in.

  10. #1170
    If there's no flying in 6.1, my wallet freezes solid.

  11. #1171
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Naiomie View Post
    I'm laughing at everyone who's saying they're unsubbing just because you won't be able to fly. Kind of hilarious


    I personally love the idea of not being able to fly. The world feels so much bigger and scarier while not being able to fly!
    Until you've been through it quite a few times already. In my experience it eventually starts to feel like driving to work. But as long as they make my flying mounts useable on the ground, (I love a great deal of my flying mounts more than ground) I won't mind. If not, I guess I don't mind defaulting to awesome stuff.

  12. #1172
    Quote Originally Posted by Mosotti View Post
    If there's no flying in 6.1, my wallet freezes solid.
    People are fighting this no flying... they don't understand what it was like when there was no flying...

    You would see and meet people, every trip could be an adventure, you actually had to do quests instead of flying over and finding the perfect spot to skip everything.
    World pvp will be more then flying in and killing them then flying away...


    My favorite expansion was Vanilla, Not because of the raiding (though i loved raiding then) or the new amazing features they added to improve the game.
    IT WAS COMMUNITY, which the game slowly lost over time since flyings been out, everyone ignores everything in game and just flies above it.
    even doing isle on my alt i feel like the servers community is more then sitting in a city, i will sit my character in the isle and end up actually just randomly killing mobs or rares or helping people or censoring people or grouping up with people to kill censors. It's not the same as how people were in Vanilla, but it still feels a lot more closer to having that community then sitting in a city watching people spam LFG or LFM.
    It sometimes felt in vanilla you were in an after school special... always getting yourself caught up in these wacky adventures.

    And those that think this will destroy gathering proffessions are wrong... start of the expansion materials are overpriced anyways, and the AH wont be flooded with mats, for a low pop server it may cause small issues but with the merged realms that should be solved.

    But either way those that say they probably wont play will probably play and probably wont notice no flying a few weeks into it. if you need to get far you sit on your flight path and go do a chore or make food or take a poop. If its close they will have everything designed for ground mounts.

  13. #1173
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by bubbacca View Post
    People are fighting this no flying... they don't understand what it was like when there was no flying...

    You would see and meet people, every trip could be an adventure, you actually had to do quests instead of flying over and finding the perfect spot to skip everything.
    Didn't know you could fly while leveing in pandaria, oh wait, you couldn't
    World pvp will be more then flying in and killing them then flying away...
    There is no reason to ever reproduce "world pvp", it's basically low levels getting ganked by a group of players, hardly anything fun.
    Go rated bg if you want to kill players.

  14. #1174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raeln View Post
    Also, flying is just swimming really fast as far as the game engine cares.
    Swimming is swimming, and flying is flying. Trying to mix the two is not possible. You either SWIM fast, or you FLY fast. They are completely separate concepts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    I love that movie but the quest chain they are proposing may upset too many players IMO.
    Quest chains are a main staple of any good MMO. We used to quest to get lock and pally mounts. We would quest for Druid forms. We would quest to get shaman totems. They've moved away from that style of immersion. It is nice to see it return, even in some small form. Plus, it makes sense that since I can fly in every other condition, including outerspace and twisting nether, I should not have to learn how to fly once more on the same planet in a new timeline. Technically, if you have Outlands flight, you have Draenor flight. I think this is an interesting way of keeping the playing field set for an entire patch.

  15. #1175
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrathonia View Post
    They should have been designing those things years ago, so yes. Also, flying isn't godmode. You can't fly into enemies and kill them. Flying mounts don't help kill anything. They help you skip things and get places faster, but nothing dies because of a flying mount. Also, you are wrong about the ground mounts. There are tons of places that allow ground mounts that don't allow flying mounts. Not only all the MoP islands, but lots of dungeons, battlegrounds and raids have places you can use ground mounts but not flying mounts.

    Stop throwing a hissy fit.
    I'm not throwing a hissy fit.

    Flying is godmode, provided you just don't try to run through a pile of enemies and tank them. You can't get dazed while flying so basically holding the spacebar down will let you escape at any time - except if it's around an enemy city, where the guards do have abilities to knock you off your flyer.

    If you could still get dazed from a flying mount (ala TBC era) and the skies were littered with max level mobs, then flying would have some danger to it - as it is now, if you can fly you are safe and untouchable in 99% of the game world.

    When you are in a place that grounds you, you can still summon the flying mount and it will act as a ground mount. A flying mount is a ground mount that can fly, thus ensuring it will always be better in potential than just a ground mount alone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    Ohhh poor Blizzard, I feel so sorry for them that they actually have to think about their game design. I'm sorry, but they introduced a useful, fun, and wildly popular feature, now they want to QQ that they have to put a little more effort into their game? Less QQ more pewpew Blizz. And frankly, you could apply this argument to any aspect of the game. Blizz has to put in special this or special that to deal with cool thing A or cool thing B. Sorry, sometimes new stuff presents new challenges. I thought that's why people kept buying these expansions, ya know, for new content and new challenges? I figure if I've paid Blizz more for WoW than my entire entertainment system, they can suck it up.
    You do realize that WoW is among the few MMORPGs that actually supports flying mounts right? Most new MMOs are trying to avoid flying mounts, or mounts in general.

    As for flying mounts being a "wildly popular feature" - go figure, you hand players the ability to turn off being frustrated with NPCs fly over everything and many like it. I imagine some players would love having the ability to turn off random encounters in other games too, like the Final Fantasy series.

    So tell me, if you were designing WoW - what would you do to provide "new challenges" when your playerbase can just hop on their flying mount and fly 120 yards above them?

  16. #1176
    Quote Originally Posted by bubbacca View Post
    People are fighting this no flying... they don't understand what it was like when there was no flying...
    SNIP...
    I remember the days of no flying. Guess what? IT sucked ass and lead to the most request feature happening in WOW (right next to dual spec anyway). The addition of flying and then an expansion later the revamp of the entire world so flying could be anywhere was ground breaking.

    Flying should be designed around and expanded upon, not taken out.

    and as far as your love for community goes it wasn't flying that killed it. It was the addition of cross realm tech. Flying didn't mess up your community. It was the mixing of communities with no accountability for toxic players.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raeln View Post
    SNIP....

    So tell me, if you were designing WoW - what would you do to provide "new challenges" when your playerbase can just hop on their flying mount and fly 120 yards above them?
    Just off the top of my head:

    I would have certain mobs in the trees that only target upward. Lets say spiders for now. Im some questing areas they would pull you out of the sky.

    In towns they would have ways to get you out of the sky.

    Some quests would be simple and be in buildings and caves. Some quests would not spawn the final boss till other things happened in a series of events.

    If it was gathering quests you could design an in combat mechanic to prevent "objective snatching" and then flying away. You could also have mobs on many or just a few objectives to mix things up.

    Thats off the op of my head, if it was my job to make a better game, I'd expand on flying, not remove it.
    Last edited by quras; 2014-03-12 at 01:26 PM.

  17. #1177
    Quote Originally Posted by Thyranne View Post
    What jumping puzzles? They are all beyond easy.
    Yes, they are easy for players that have been doing them for what, 7 months now? Back when 5.4 released though - they were new and shiny and I seen people falling off them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thyranne View Post
    I fail to see that either. I mean, just do a test. Make random dungeons not teleport players to dungeon (and no summoning stone) but make them receive 250VP. I seriously doubt that people would suddenly start flying (not even using their flying mounts).
    They didn't want to even before flying mounts or LFD were in the game either. I remember many people nearly demanding summons or pretending to be AFK until the first two arrived at the scene.

    This wasn't just in WoW either, I remember being the driver to more than a few dungeons in Rift while the rest of the group kept questing/pretending to AFK. Rift only needed one person to enter the dungeon and then it gave everyone else free auto-summons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    I'm betting dailies will be around. They might call them 'dynamic events' or something, but they'll be periodic things that you do for some reason (rep, tokens, etc).
    There won't be mountains of dailies like there used to be dailies. I suspect there'll be one or two here and there as a breadcrumb to get players into the general area.

    Actually, it's never bothered me to have them not work while leveling. That is a pretty good compromise between taking time to design leveling content to account for flight (see below) and preserving the integrity of the content.I'm not a fan of no flight until 6.1 and then jumping through artificial hoops to get flight back when I've had it before, but it's not a huge deal to me.
    It would be ironic if Blizzard rolls 6.1 out like 2 months after release.

    Also, it's okay for them to just flip a switch to turn flight off while leveling but putting "the switch" to turn it back on inside a quest chain is crossing the line?

    Did you play TBC? Remember Nagrand and the anti-aircraft around towns? And yes, I'd be FINE with the devs fully designing for flying mounts. They SHOULD design for what the players can do. It's silly to have player flight in the game for 3/4 of its lifetime and still complain that you can't design with it in mind.
    I already said enemy NPC camps/cities posed some threats to flying, but if you will remember - even in TBC, that all you had to do was steer around that city and you remained safe. It wasn't like the skies were littered with flying birds 80 yards up that would agro on you left and right.

    So fly when you gather and don't fly otherwise. But don't fly everywhere and then bitch about flying killing immersion or something. And you know what? That's right, flying has been around for 7 years. Just get used to it.
    eh?

    So basically just suck it up and use flying mounts if I want to be a productive gatherer. Okay.

    really? You whine at me that they can't design around flight, then give examples of precisely how they could do it. As for cost? Flying is expensive (and was more expensive before), kind of like your example. Funny, that...
    They haven't done that in 99% of the game - only around some enemy faction areas and a daily quest hub in Blade's Edge - which was part of the theme of that area.

    Think about that for a second. You're the lead on WoD for Blizzard.... flying has been in the game for the last 7 years... and you design content that you believe will be better if you remove a capability for your players.

    Does that sound bright? Intelligent? To me it sounds idiotic. It would be like designing content outdoors and disabling ground mounts or disallowing the ability to, say, get out of combat.
    You say that like they haven't been removing flight from the latest content since 5.2 already. You still can't fly on Thunder Isle. You still can't fly on Timeless Isle. I don't really see mountains of whining over that.

  18. #1178
    Deleted
    I'd like that

  19. #1179
    I'm fine with no flying mount till 6.1 But removing it for entire expansion? I mean, why the hell you put in the first place and decide to take it away? Are you certain considering losing subs? Is Blizzard thinking logically PROS/CONS? Hey, Let's Remove FLIGHTPATHS! NO NEED! Hey, Let's remove MOUNTS, Your characters need some exercise! Hey, let's remove mage portals! Hey let's remove summoning stones/warlock summon stone! Hey let's remove plenty bullshit we had done in the past and move on !
    Last edited by Thirstblood; 2014-03-12 at 01:43 PM.

  20. #1180
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    Swimming is swimming, and flying is flying. Trying to mix the two is not possible. You either SWIM fast, or you FLY fast. They are completely separate concepts.
    Actually, no they are not separate concepts. Have you ever noticed what your character does when you first zone into a crowded area and mount up/take off when the server is a bit laggy?

    You are swimming, in the air.

    In WoW, swimming and flying are the same thing. The flying mount just has faster numbers.

    Quest chains are a main staple of any good MMO. We used to quest to get lock and pally mounts. We would quest for Druid forms. We would quest to get shaman totems. They've moved away from that style of immersion. It is nice to see it return, even in some small form. Plus, it makes sense that since I can fly in every other condition, including outerspace and twisting nether, I should not have to learn how to fly once more on the same planet in a new timeline. Technically, if you have Outlands flight, you have Draenor flight. I think this is an interesting way of keeping the playing field set for an entire patch.
    I'm all for applying some common sense and I agree with you on the "we shouldn't have to learn a new ability to let us fly in WoD". That said, if we use common sense in that area - then we probably should use it in other areas, specifically the "why can my flying mount carry me and my thousands of pounds of inventory and never, ever get tired" area.

    ... or the "wow, this is pretty high up in the atmosphere - I bet my character is pretty cold in her tankini."

    ... or the "wow, this high up the air is probably too thin to breathe, I'ma just going to pretend my character and mount must have some bottled air to breathe."

    Yeah, I know those sound silly but those are things that we are willing to suspend our disbelief over to "make flying mounts believable" in game.

    It's kind of sad to me really. I think the devs could have avoided all these flying issues back in TBC by just making the flying ability of mounts be a short-term duration thing with a cooldown. This would have represented them getting tired and having to rest. Boom, suddenly using the flying ability of your mount is a strategic ability and not essentially a godmode switch.

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