6.0 Mage Speculation & Paranoia

[Kapadons]

Ice block? I use ice block when G. invis and TS are down (or is just G.invis is down and im about to get hit hard). It's just a priority system in my mind, and keeping Ice Block always up for those super bad moments is the best use of it. The long CD doesn't really come into play.

inceasing the CD but increasing the dmg duration would just be a straight nerf. Right now you only use it to block high burst damage abilities. So anything beyond the first second or two isn't doing much.

PoM is up in the air, depending on what they do with fire. It'll never compete with ice flows in terms of mobile DPS, so if they make fire not care about it then PoM becomes complete shit and they'll have to rethink it.

One instant cast on a 90 second CD is pretty bad (for PVE). Fire only cares for AT chain and even then you really only use one of them. Pretty shitty talent in late MoP. CD needs to be 45 seconds (for PVE). Then any spec could use it on any low-movement fight and it becomes a true DPS increase. Also, being able to instant cast a flame-strike on spawning adds is nice.

[Obelisk Kai]

Here's a bit of speculation on how most of our talents are going to change in some way:

- PoM I'd be shocked if it stays as is; most likely scrapped or put back to Arcane only
- Icy Floes will probably change a bit (charges are stupid; make it more like SWG or some shit)
- Flameglow is a near guarantee to be scrapped, or at least changed heavily (the name is fine and it's a whole new concept as of late MoP anyways)
- L45 tier most likely to be completely scrapped or heavily changed. They want less CC and this tier is 99% useless in raiding (the 1% being those specific fights where CC matters).
- Cold Snap changed heavily, put back in Frost's toolkit, or scrapped completely.
- Cauterize I would love to see put back to Fire only. It's hard to choose between it and an active cooldown.
- Greater Invisibility I wish would be baseline, then this whole tier could be some new fun spell ability
- Mage Bombs are already unofficially confirmed to be consolidated to one talent.
- 2 L90 talents 100% confirmed to die off in a fire. The last one has a small "good" part of it staying, but whose to say if it stays a talent?

PoM, yeah, it'll either be reworked or it will be gone. It's on too long a cooldown and in hindsight it has really hurt fire as they balance around it and alter time.

Icy Floes I disagree. It's similar to spiritwalker's grace, which the devs say they like, but different too. I would be very, very surprised if this changes meaningfully.

Flameglow should be purged simply because it's boring. It's a band aid talent and it's hogging a slot that could be given to something more interesting. What this new ability has to be though is balanced around survivablity.

The level 45 tier is my biggest disagreement with you. I do not believe it will be scrapped. Just because they want less CC and the tier is useless in raiding does not equate to the abilities being removed. Firstly, we do not know how encounters will function in mythic raiding. There is a good chance the necessity for crowd control could come back in those encounters now they can be more tightly tuned.
Secondly, just because there is less cc does not equate to all cc being purged. They have aslo already said that some classes will have more CC than others and I know in my heart Mages are going to be one of those classes so favored because we always have been.
The level 45 tier offers ONE extra cc ability to Mages that offer use in non raiding activities such as pvp and soloing. Frostjaw and Ring of Frost are also fairly well designed abilities. Icy Ward should be removed. As I mentioned previously, putting Blast Wave in here as a knockback/daze would be pretty nice.

Greater Invisiblity SHOULD be baseline and I sort of expect this to happen. Invisibility without the talent is pretty crud as a survival mechanism, given the long delay in it taking affect. If Alter Time is being put anywhere in the talent grid, the greater invisibility spot is it.

Mage bombs consolidated into one tier is good. It suggests that the level 75 tier is going to be devoted to abilities that affect our rotation in some way.

As for the level 90s, we are pretty certain its Rune of Power as a cooldown that has survived right? Not completely certain but it is certainly the choice that makes the most sense. Would be nice if Mirror Images has survived in here as a dps cooldown, because it would just be a very visceral and fun button to use.

[Nightfall]

To people who say Icy Floes is very good in its current iteration, how do you use it? I couldn't get used to it. Usually when I need to move, I need to move right now and don't have time to press another button (plus all the convenient on-the-move buttons are already used), so I ended up maintaining stacks just in case, thus often wasting them.

I strongly dislike that talent. Have I been using it wrong?

[Mastamage]

To people who say Icy Floes is very good in its current iteration, how do you use it? I couldn't get used to it. Usually when I need to move, I need to move right now and don't have time to press another button (plus all the convenient on-the-move buttons are already used), so I ended up maintaining stacks just in case, thus often wasting them.

I strongly dislike that talent. Have I been using it wrong?

As Arcane, the majority of my Icy Floes charges go to repositioning my RoP on the move so I'm ready to DPS when I get there. The other times I'm using charges to keep 4-stacks up on the move or just moving out of shit.

[Hasufer]

As Arcane, the majority of my Icy Floes charges go to repositioning my RoP on the move so I'm ready to DPS when I get there. The other times I'm using charges to keep 4-stacks up on the move or just moving out of shit.

Seconded - as well as ofc using charges for micro-movement inside your rune, if needed

[Mastamage]

Seconded - as well as ofc using charges for micro-movement inside your rune, if needed

^ yup
/10char

[Nightfall]

I mean, yes, I used Icy Flows to reposition RoP or to maintain 4 stacks too. What I ask is how do you use Icy Flows spell itself? Do you have a separate macros, e.g. /cast Icy Flows /cast Arcane Blast? Do you cast IF mid-cast prior to moving even if the movement is urgent or do you let your current cast interrupt and start a new one with IF enabled?

[Mastamage]

I mean, yes, I used Icy Flows to reposition RoP or to maintain 4 stacks too. What I ask is how do you use Icy Flows spell itself? Do you have a separate macros, e.g. /cast Icy Flows /cast Arcane Blast? Do you cast IF mid-cast prior to moving even if the movement is urgent or do you let your current cast interrupt and start a new one with IF enabled?

Movement is very predictable this tier so you have lots of time to react. If something is sudden I just cast it itself then whatever ability I need to use on the move. Quick fingers and keybinds. I'm not a fan of a macro for Ice Floes since the spell I want to use following the charge changes.

[Malon the Mage]

The level 45 tier is my biggest disagreement with you. I do not believe it will be scrapped. Just because they want less CC and the tier is useless in raiding does not equate to the abilities being removed. Firstly, we do not know how encounters will function in mythic raiding. There is a good chance the necessity for crowd control could come back in those encounters now they can be more tightly tuned.
Secondly, just because there is less cc does not equate to all cc being purged. They have aslo already said that some classes will have more CC than others and I know in my heart Mages are going to be one of those classes so favored because we always have been.
The level 45 tier offers ONE extra cc ability to Mages that offer use in non raiding activities such as pvp and soloing. Frostjaw and Ring of Frost are also fairly well designed abilities. Icy Ward should be removed. As I mentioned previously, putting Blast Wave in here as a knockback/daze would be pretty nice.

I'd be very surprised in the lvl 45 tier is unchanged. Even if there are fights requiring CC, freeze effects aren't it; they break almost instantly in any large-scale combat (have you ever tried to DF a kill target in a raid without being Frost, even with the glyph?) and a lot of enemies in raids are immune. What the tier needs is a freeze option (RoF), a snare option (perhaps Blastwave) and something additional; Frostjaw is ok but again, rarely used in PvE with the silence effect tied to the freeze. It's really a PvP talent.

I also predict that Ice Floes won't go unchanged, as moving-while-casting is something that the devs want to cut back on in WoD. Using it on Siegecrafter, a heavy movement fight, I have a charge ready to get me where I need to go without losing DPS 90% of the time.

[Nightfall]

Movement is very predictable this tier so you have lots of time to react. If something is sudden I just cast it itself then whatever ability I need to use on the move. Quick fingers and keybinds. I'm not a fan of a macro for Ice Floes since the spell I want to use following the charge changes.

I've found it really hard to get used to. Actually I didn't find an easy-to-access keybind for it, so it was on shift+G, similar to PoM and Blazing Speed, which I specced in 99% of time in MoP.

[Frost1129]

One instant cast on a 90 second CD is pretty bad (for PVE). Fire only cares for AT chain and even then you really only use one of them. Pretty shitty talent in late MoP. CD needs to be 45 seconds (for PVE). Then any spec could use it on any low-movement fight and it becomes a true DPS increase. Also, being able to instant cast a flame-strike on spawning adds is nice.

I can't tell if you are agreeing with me or not. But 45s on PoM still doesn't compete with Ice Flows in terms of movement gains. You'd only use PoM when on the move, and if that is the case IF is just better. It wouldn't ever be a DPS gain. PoM without the current fire DPS scheme is out-dated and needs to be changed or removed.

- - - Updated - - -

I've found it really hard to get used to. Actually I didn't find an easy-to-access keybind for it, so it was on shift+G, similar to PoM and Blazing Speed, which I specced in 99% of time in MoP.

Shift+G feels akward for something you are going to hit before moving (so you'll be presing upwards of 4 keys at once to use it). I have Ice flows bound to R and it works quite nicely.

[Kuni Zyrekai]

I mean, yes, I used Icy Flows to reposition RoP or to maintain 4 stacks too. What I ask is how do you use Icy Flows spell itself? Do you have a separate macros, e.g. /cast Icy Flows /cast Arcane Blast? Do you cast IF mid-cast prior to moving even if the movement is urgent or do you let your current cast interrupt and start a new one with IF enabled?

I've personally got it bound to `. Casting it mid-cast won't consume the charge if you use it in the last 0.5s of the cast.

[mrgreenthump]

Shift+G feels akward for something you are going to hit before moving (so you'll be presing upwards of 4 keys at once to use it). I have Ice flows bound to R and it works quite nicely.

I don't think I could live without having additional buttons on my mouse.. I use them for every point/click and movement bind I got. Just makes a lot more sense to me.

[Mastamage]

I don't think I could live without having additional buttons on my mouse.. I use them for every point/click and movement bind I got. Just makes a lot more sense to me.

Pretty much this. Everything is bound to my mouse and I just use Shift, Control or Alt modifiers with them.

[Nightfall]

It's just that I've been using almost the same keybinds since WotLK, so it's hard to find a convenient button for it.

R - Mage Bomb
` - Counterspell into focus
shift+G used to be PoM or Cold Snap forever.

MoP has thrown off all my keybinding with its new talent trees. R used to be Ice Lance, so I just had to learn to use R for Mage Bomb for Fire and Arcane, but shift+R while Frost. Also F used to be Ice Barrier/Arcane Barrage/Scorch, but suddenly you could get all 3 of them as Arcane, wth!

I know shift+G sucks for IF, but it's seems there's no place else to fit it in. I just can't change the old habit. Pre-cast for casting on the move was not a Mage thing to do historically.

I have some buttons on my mouse, but I never really got to use them for spells - there are keybinds for autorun, toggle nameplates on/off and push-to-talk.

[Huevos]

It's just that I've been using almost the same keybinds since WotLK, so it's hard to find a convenient button for it.

R - Mage Bomb
` - Counterspell into focus
shift+G used to be PoM or Cold Snap forever.

MoP has thrown off all my keybinding with its new talent trees. R used to be Ice Lance, so I just had to learn to use R for Mage Bomb for Fire and Arcane, but shift+R while Frost. Also F used to be Ice Barrier/Arcane Barrage/Scorch, but suddenly you could get all 3 of them as Arcane, wth!

I know shift+G sucks for IF, but it's seems there's no place else to fit it in. I just can't change the old habit. Pre-cast for casting on the move was not a Mage thing to do historically.

I have some buttons on my mouse, but I never really got to use them for spells - there are keybinds for autorun, toggle nameplates on/off and push-to-talk.

I understand not wanting to change keybinds once you're used to them, but being able to cast while moving with your mouse is pretty huge. And in your case specifically, do you really use autorun or toggle nameplates during an encounter? You could pretty easily open up 6+ spells using those two buttons and modifiers.

[Nightfall]

I understand not wanting to change keybinds once you're used to them, but being able to cast while moving with your mouse is pretty huge. And in your case specifically, do you really use autorun or toggle nameplates during an encounter? You could pretty easily open up 6+ spells using those two buttons and modifiers.

I use autorun frequently, even in raids. Nameplates is a PVP thing. But yeah, you do have a point here. I should step over myself and utilize some of these keybinds. Especially if IF lives on for WoD. =)

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Honestly, I expected to hear more details or even see the new talent trees 1-2 weeks ago.

Here's an idea. I think it'll be nice to make lv75 talents into new rotational spell theme. So there could be a choice between:
-Mage Bomb - a DoT, without multidotting capability (but maybe with Fireblast spreading, aoe, etc),
-Chromatic Bolt - a single-target castable nuke with medium ~15 sec cd,
-Summoning Incantation - lets the mage summon a spec-specific minion/ally/pet/entity.

Mage Bomb - a current Mage lv75 talents merged into one and tweaked.

• Nether Tempest for Arcane - one-target only dot, which rapidly damages the target and also adjacent enemies with missiles, depending on # of Arcane Charges (1 charge = 1 additional enemy damaged).
• Living Bomb for Fire - one-target dot, which can be spread to 2 additional enemies with Fireblast, explodes every 12 sec (if constantly refreshed instead of letting it fall off)
• Frost Bomb - one-target dot, instant, has only one tick after 3-4 sec, can be triggered prematurely with BFFFB (triggered elsewhere), which treats the explosion as triggered on frozen targets.

Chromatic Bolt - a powerful 2.5 sec cast (pre-haste) spell, which deals SpellFrostFire damage, uninterruptible, knockbacks the enemy a medium distance and slows its movement speed by 40%, 15-20 sec cd.

Summoning Incantation - a summoning spell:

• Rune of Power (Arcane) - instant, summon a rune of power at your feet, which will increase all damage dealt and reduce all damage taken by 20-30% for 15 sec while standing in it, 2-3 min cd.
• Summon Phoenix (Fire) - instant, summons a phoenix, which flies forward and then back to the mage, damaging all enemies and energizing the mage, increasing all damage dealt by 15% for 10 sec, 30-40 sec cd.
• Summon Water Elemental (Frost) - 1.5 sec cast, summon a permanent Water Elemental, 1.5 min cd (same as now).

[Obelisk Kai]

I use autorun frequently, even in raids. Nameplates is a PVP thing. But yeah, you do have a point here. I should step over myself and utilize some of these keybinds. Especially if IF lives on for WoD. =)

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Honestly, I expected to hear more details or even see the new talent trees 1-2 weeks ago.

Here's an idea. I think it'll be nice to make lv75 talents into new rotational spell theme. So there could be a choice between:
-Mage Bomb - a DoT, without multidotting capability (but maybe with Fireblast spreading, aoe, etc),
-Chromatic Bolt - a single-target castable nuke with medium ~15 sec cd,
-Summoning Incantation - lets the mage summon a spec-specific minion/ally/pet/entity.

Mage Bomb - a current Mage lv75 talents merged into one and tweaked.

• Nether Tempest for Arcane - one-target only dot, which rapidly damages the target and also adjacent enemies with missiles, depending on # of Arcane Charges (1 charge = 1 additional enemy damaged).
• Living Bomb for Fire - one-target dot, which can be spread to 2 additional enemies with Fireblast, explodes every 12 sec (if constantly refreshed instead of letting it fall off)
• Frost Bomb - one-target dot, instant, has only one tick after 3-4 sec, can be triggered prematurely with BFFFB (triggered elsewhere), which treats the explosion as triggered on frozen targets.

Chromatic Bolt - a powerful 2.5 sec cast (pre-haste) spell, which deals SpellFrostFire damage, uninterruptible, knockbacks the enemy a medium distance and slows its movement speed by 40%, 15-20 sec cd.

Summoning Incantation - a summoning spell:

• Rune of Power (Arcane) - instant, summon a rune of power at your feet, which will increase all damage dealt and reduce all damage taken by 20-30% for 15 sec while standing in it, 2-3 min cd.
• Summon Phoenix (Fire) - instant, summons a phoenix, which flies forward and then back to the mage, damaging all enemies and energizing the mage, increasing all damage dealt by 15% for 10 sec, 30-40 sec cd.
• Summon Water Elemental (Frost) - 1.5 sec cast, summon a permanent Water Elemental, 1.5 min cd (same as now).

I like Chromatic bolt and it wouldn't surprise me to see something similar in the final set up, but the summoning incantation idea will not happen because they are not rotational changes and therefore do not fit with the spec theme.

Rune of Power, if repurposed as a cooldown, is a fun idea that will probably be available and workable for all specs. I cannot see it being Arcane locked as it is not suited, cooldown wise, to being arcane only.

Summon Water Elemental is extremely unlikely as a talent. I know a few of you have this desire to see a petless frost but, especially given how they are offering further options for the pet and so deeping it's gameplay, a petless frost option just looks unlikely.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The choice for Mages in whether to have a pet or not is the choice of whether to be frost or not. If you want to be frost, the pet is part of the package. If you don't want a pet, there are two other dps specs for Mages to use.

[Polarthief]

Honestly, I expected to hear more details or even see the new talent trees 1-2 weeks ago.

Soon™

/10char

[Nightfall]

Soon™

/10char

Soon^{not really}