Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Ghostile]

i never said it was the most requested. hell, i don't even remember the forums asking for it before it was announced. but you make it sound like everyone hated flying and requested it to be taken out (which wasn't the case)

As I said, the biggest complainers at the time was WPvPers. It long got destroyed even earlier when they put in AV/WSG/AB. Flying didn't take out WPvP despite what some other people want to complain about even now. The only legitimate complaint they have in WPvP and Flying is the gankers as they can just swoop in, kill, and leave as they please.

Flying was the last nail in wpvp coffin.
Before, people would still skirmish while questing or laying siege to towns for fun.
Then it turned into not-landing-till-that-guy-goes-away

[Ragedaug]

Flying was the last nail in wpvp coffin.
Before, people would still skirmish while questing or laying siege to towns for fun.
Then it turned into not-landing-till-that-guy-goes-away

Players can still skirmish while questing and they still lay seige to towns for fun regardless of whether or not you can fly. What are you talking about?

[Stellan]

Hell, it's not much different than a rogue chilling stealthed ganking people. The main thing people should remember about a PvP realm is that there are always going to be some powerful players running around killing people for laughs, flying or no flying doesn't change this. If you are going to be out in the world questing it's best to bring some friends so you're not as attractive to gankers.

You may not have noticed but more than half of the subscriber base plays on PVE servers where being ganked by anyone rarely happens. Even on PVP servers, factions tend to bunch up on one side or the other so that "World PVP" doesn't happen much. The idea that taking away flying is going to somehow cause players to go out in the world and fight each other is absurd.

[Wrathonia]

True, you could run away from that combat if you felt like it.
Now you can't but take it if you're on the ground.

I am confused. Which is it? That people can easily run away since they have flying mounts.....or you can't run away because they have flying mounts? Or is it just a bunch of BS because it doesn't really change anything?

[Mafic]

I am a PVPer and I enjoy world PVP (Emerald Dream).

But world PVP isn't coming back by taking away flying. And the majority of the playerbase consists of PVE players or PVE players that dabble into PVP. Players that do strictly PVP are in the minority so taking away flying is a bad idea.

Are there pure PVE players that like the idea of taking away flying? Yes as this thread shows we have a melting pot of opinions. However, the vast majority of anti flying crowd are self proclaimed "world PVPers". This baffles me as all the world PVPers I know play on the realms that currently have world PVP. Anyways, to me what Blizz is doing is creating an artificial time sink to cover up the fact they are not ready to launch this expansion with enough content.

That is self evident and obvious to anyone that has been awaiting a beta by now.

[rebecca191]

I think it's highly likely they will restrict flying for the entire Xpac. They're clearly interested in designing the world with no flying in mind and they've reiterated the negative effects of flying dozens of times. They know there would be a backlash of crying if they announced that flying would be removed entirely, so instead they said it wouldn't be available for the beginning of the xpac. Now they're saying they want to gauge player reaction before they make a final decision - thinking that people will like a world without flying.

I think they're right, but most players never played WoW when there wasn't flying. Naturally these people are going to be upset. BC and everything afterward was designed with flying in mind. People who didn't play vanilla have no clue how the game plays without being able to fly and without zones designed for flying. Blizzard is weening these players out of their attachment to flying by saying they'll restrict it for a few months but the master plan is to restrict it entirely.

They wouldn't go through the effort of making every flying mount usable on the ground if they didn't plan on restricting flying entirely.

I played the game before flying and that's why I feel so strongly about keeping it - because it was pretty much the best basic improvement made to the game, ever, for me. Travel was the most annoying thing about vanilla WoW.

[yogzula]

Players are well aware of what it's like not fly... And what does vanila have to do with anything? Flying was a major game feature added in the first expansion. I can make an entire list of features that weren't in vanilla. Doesn't mean it would be a good idea to remove them.

I almost feel like this is a debate not even worth having because no flying is going to be so bad for subscriber numbers that they will have no choice but to add it back to the game after 6.1.

you're wrong. They aren't going to lose subs at release. The only time they'll risk losing subs if when and if they announce flying not being unlocked for this xpac.

You're also making a poor argument. If you didn't play during vanilla you do not have a good idea of what the game is like without flying.

- - - Updated - - -

I played the game before flying and that's why I feel so strongly about keeping it - because it was pretty much the best basic improvement made to the game, ever, for me. Travel was the most annoying thing about vanilla WoW.

Flight paths were not very good in vanilla and you also couldn't fast travel or queue to nearly as many things from anywhere in the world. There were a lot of changes made to convenience other than just flying. Traveling in azeroth in vanilla as well as gathering resources was also not perfect, but that wasn't because of ground mounts. Blizz has a lot of time to learn how to make the ground mount experience better. That was their first try.

[Reclaimer]

I'm sure blizzard will remember your greatness and miss you dearly.

Him alone? I doubt it. But the millions that will leave? I think they will care lol. Loving the idiots that are all like " BB nobody cares" Because people leaving your game and making it more empty is always awesome. People bitching about sub loss but its okay when it comes to stuff like this. Okay then lol.

In the end its proof that its the players on the fourms that give bicthy feedback is whats ruined this game. Cata & MoP was what the players wanted look where its gotten us. Mabye we should let blizzard make the game they want then we would have VAN back.

[rebecca191]

you're wrong. They aren't going to lose subs at release. The only time they'll risk losing subs if when and if they announce flying not being unlocked for this xpac.

You're also making a poor argument. If you didn't play during vanilla you do not have a good idea of what the game is like without flying.

- - - Updated - - -



Flight paths were not very good in vanilla and you also couldn't fast travel or queue to nearly as many things from anywhere in the world. There were a lot of changes made to convenience other than just flying. Traveling in azeroth in vanilla as well as gathering resources was also not perfect, but that wasn't because of ground mounts. Blizz has a lot of time to learn how to make the ground mount experience better. That was their first try.

Except I still disliked it while leveling alts in BC (after I had flying on my main).

And I still disliked it when I was leveling to 77 in Northrend.

And I still disliked it leveling in MoP. Actually, I hated it so, so very much that my only 90 alt was leveled with pet battles, holiday events, and dungeons.

And I still disliked it in all the ground mount only daily quest zones.

But, at least during all those times, flying was available right away at level cap (sometimes sooner) in most areas.

Actually, the only times after my first character got flight in BC that I didn't completely hate and resent being forced to use a ground mount are when I have been in an arena or battleground. I think I have enough experience to make a very educated guess that I will not enjoy an expac without flying and therefore, I will not purchase WoD unless things change in a patch.

I think I have enough experience on how forced ground travel feels to me.

[Deleted]

How can people doubt that removing flying mounts will make the game so much more immersive and amazing?
-first time in years people walking around in the world.
-engage and interact with people, possibly making friends and grouping for quests.
-more focused about your environment and interested in exploring the zones. (Blizzard said "easter eggs" and secrets will be scattered all over WoD)
-you will fear the enemy faction for the first time in a long time

The World of mother f*in Warcraft will be populated again...how can people doubt this is an amazing thing? The only reason to doubt this is if it will be painfull to travel between point A to point B.

But Blizzard already said they will be using the amazing power of "game design magic" to ensure that traveling will be very fast and easy. Flight paths will be boosted and possibly some teleports will be in order.

I believe in Blizzards's game design magic -_- we just need to wait and see how it goes in Beta

[rebecca191]

Because immersion is personal and I have always found the game more fun and immersive when I have flying. That is what you don't get. People have different preferences for what is immersive and what is annoying.

[Wrathonia]

How can people doubt that removing flying mounts will make the game so much more immersive and amazing?
-first time in years people walking around in the world.
-engage and interact with people, possibly making friends and grouping for quests.
-more focused about your environment and interested in exploring the zones. (Blizzard said "easter eggs" and secrets will be scattered all over WoD)
-you will fear the enemy faction for the first time in a long time

The World of mother f*in Warcraft will be populated again...how can people doubt this is an amazing thing? The only reason to doubt this is if it will be painfull to travel between point A to point B.

But Blizzard already said they will be using the amazing power of "game design magic" to ensure that traveling will be very fast and easy. Flight paths will be boosted and possibly some teleports will be in order.

I believe in Blizzards's game design magic -_- we just need to wait and see how it goes in Beta

I will feel sorry for you when your bubble bursts. First time people walking around the world? Fu....seriously?! That's such an incredulous statement I can't even reply to it. Engage and interact with people? Group for quests? Eh, maybe. Most likely not. I quest most efficiently on my own. Grouping with others always slows me down unless the quests require a group, which they won't. As for focusing on the world, not likely. If there are any achievements for it, people will search for them. Otherwise someone might bump into something, but most likely miss it because they are busy looking for quest items. Fear enemy faction? Wouldn't know, don't play on a pvp realm.

Everything you talked about is subjective. Hell, I personally think you are delusional. But who knows, maybe your realm has a great sense of community. Mine just got connected and there are growing pains, so no one is really working together. Believe what you want, but from my experience it won't be anything like your little dream world.

[Deleted]

First time people walking around the world? Seriously?! That's such an incredulous statement I can't even reply to it. Engage and interact with people?

People only "walk around" in Timeless Isle and major cities. I bet you don't even have a single ground mount in your action bar xD

Timeless Isle had lots of good responses because it's an environment where you actually feel the community and see players "walking about".
If you can fly you will always be flying and no one will ever see another player on their monitors.
Cataclysm felt so lonely I jizzed my pants when I entered a random cavern and I saw a random players killing mobs.

[rebecca191]

People only "walk around" in Timeless Isle and major cities. I bet you don't even have a single ground mount in your action bar xD

Timeless Isle had lots of good responses because it's an environment where you actually feel the community and see players "walking about".
If you can fly you will always be flying and no one will ever see another player on their monitors.
Cataclysm felt so lonely I jizzed my pants when I entered a random cavern and I saw a random players killing mobs.

Timeless Isle was so exciting that I used it as an insomnia cure. Along the way, I somehow managed to kill enough new and/or AFK 90s to get an ugly mount. Anyway, Invincible was keybound for me - usable anywhere.

[Wrathonia]

People only "walk around" in Timeless Isle and major cities. I bet you don't even have a single ground mount in your action bar xD

Timeless Isle had lots of good responses because it's an environment where you actually feel the community and see players "walking about".
If you can fly you will always be flying and no one will ever see another player on their monitors.
Cataclysm felt so lonely I jizzed my pants when I entered a random cavern and I saw a random players killing mobs.

Timeless Isle is boring tripe. And for your information I have at least 3 ground mounts on my bars on any character. The Azure Waterstrider for water walking, Traveler's Tundra Mammoth to sell things, Mechano Hog for transporting friends and then some other mount from my collection for funzies. Usually my spectral wolf from Tol Barad. Way to assume.

Frankly, blame blizzard for not making open world content more interesting and attractive. They have to force people to remain grounded by artificial means because they can't figure out actual reasons to stay grounded. Flying mounts are just tools. We choose to fly because there is no reason most of the time to stay grounded. It's a design problem, not a flying mount problem. Wrap your head around that.

[Deleted]

We choose to fly because there is no reason most of the time to stay grounded. It's a design problem, not a flying mount problem. Wrap your head around that.

Humm, you telling me people wont use a flying mount to avoid gameplay?
Quest: Omg there is a giant pit of lava between the 2 zones. We have to go around it while we kill Lava Lizards

/cast flying mount
Done

[rebecca191]

Humm, you telling me people wont use a flying mount to avoid gameplay?
Quest: Omg there is a giant pit of lava between the 2 zones. We have to go around it while we kill Lava Lizards

/cast flying mount
Done

The majority of the time, it is more like "Well I killed these darn Lava Lizards over and over again for quests and XP when I was leveling, and I am already exalted with The Cult of Lava Lizard Slaughtering, and I really want to look for a battle pet in the next zone over and work on a new reputation, so I am just going to do what makes sense and fly over this zone to get to the next one, oh and look at that pretty scenery...."

[Deleted]

I think it'd be good if they remove flying, would like to see how much QQ it causes though! Can only hope.

[Wrathonia]

Humm, you telling me people wont use a flying mount to avoid gameplay?
Quest: Omg there is a giant pit of lava between the 2 zones. We have to go around it while we kill Lava Lizards

/cast flying mount
Done

Terrible example. Lava is hardly a threat. If there is a quest objective to kill those Lava Lizards, then we kill them. The lava itself isn't a threat, nor would it be a threat.

[chrisnumbers]

I think it'd be good if they remove flying, would like to see how much QQ it causes though! Can only hope.

Yea it's totally a good idea to make people complain.