Sub-Race Photoshop Mockups

[cityguy193]

I'd also love for Azshara to turn the tide (pun intended) against N'Zoth. I'm getting a bit tired of -everyone- being corrupted by something...

you know what. I want N'Zoth to be on our side, lets team up against Azshara.

[Immitis]

Maybe, maybe not. My point is there are avenues to avoid having to introduce Azshara as an antagonist.

i really dont think thats possible. azshara has never shown a good bone in her body before and has pretty consistently been a horrible person.

they could postpone it and maybe have an short lived alliance of convenience but at some point her heads going on the chopping block theres really no avoiding it.

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I'd also love for Azshara to turn the tide (pun intended) against N'Zoth. I'm getting a bit tired of -everyone- being corrupted by something...

azshara was corrupted by her own hubris long before she was transformed by the old gods.

[Zathrendar]

True, but then we also have Illidan portrayed as a hero, who was also consistently horrible. Like Azshara, he is a narcissist, who tried to 'save' his people for his own glory, irrespective of the costs (this is something a lot of the major heroes exhibit, actually.) And also, bear in mind, he sided with her when it became clear the intention was to destroy the Well. Personally, I don't think it makes either of them 'bad' guys. Xavius was the true villain, as he knew that what was coming through the portal wasn't what Azshara, or anyone in her cadre, was expecting.

I don't see Azshara as any different to the other faction leaders around now. She mainly serves herself and the interests of the Naga. An alliance of convenience is what I had in mind. She isn't a nice person, but then again not all the faction leaders need to be 'nice' (case in point, Sylvanas.) I say all this because the idea of 'redeemed' Naga serving Neptulon is just too clichéd for words, and honestly it is becoming something of a running theme in WoW now. Or 'redeemed' Satyr. I mean, seriously? I know both are in the lore. I just think Blizzard doesn't have to take the easy route of killing her or introducing 'rebels' to introduce the Naga. A bout of pragmatism would be an interesting twist. Regarding the Satyr, if Illidan does make his anticipated return, he had a bunch of Satyr serving him, amongst other things, which would be a logical route to bring them in, if it were so desired. However, they're more sub-race material in my eyes.

[Graeham]

It'd be very interesting if Azshara turned out to be playing both the Old Gods and Burning Legion against each other and forced the Alliance and Horde to work alongside her in order to bring down N'zoth. It'd make for a story with a lot of depth and avoid having to kill off yet another intriguing lore figure. She may have done some shady stuff in her time though as Thaladhrun pointed out so has almost every faction leader at this point - even those who believe themselves to be 'pure'.

[Immitis]

i dont think comparing azshara to sylvanas is accurate.

everybody knows we are going to kill sylvanas at some point as well. and while illidan is seen as a good guy by some people hes not a hero, hes an anti hero. sure some of the stuff he does is bad and he isnt exactly an upstanding member of society all the time but at the end of the day everything he did up until they ruined him in bc was ultimately for good, same with characters like kael'thas and wrathion.

the main difference between the antiheroes like them and the villains like azshara and kil'jaedan and sargeras is that theres a sympathy there and you can get behind those characters ideals.

the needs of the many before the needs of the few, in order to do good sometimes you have to do a little bad. these are all things people deal with in real life and we can connect with those characters and get behind those ideals.

death to the living and everything belongs to me are not really ideals people can get behind.

azshara has never shown anything like that, neither has sylvanas (although some of her fanboys might say otherwise)

the only thing driving them is petty revenge and greed. arthas is probably the most redeemable out of all of warcrafts villains, atleast he wanted to do good until the sword stole his soul and he didnt have a choice.

the only real difference between kil'jaedan and azshara is their gender and which master they serve.

[Hellspawn]

Kil'Jaedan probably still tries to get his Master back. If N'Zoth falls, I don't Azshara would try to get him back or save him.
Anyhow, there is nothing good in Azshara, she is power hungry and I don't see her to search allies with horde or alliance. She is just to arrogant and it would make her look weak. She will wait for the right moment and then she will have her strike.
The only thing she may do is to outplay N'Zoth or at least she tries. But lets see how it plays out. I hope she is just not another pawn for an faceless old god.
She is no anti hero, she is just an evil bitch

[Zathrendar]

Eh, in my view a lot of the 'good' guys, driven by supposedly benign intentions, actually do a lot worse than they do good. I also struggle to view someone with a Messiah complex (hinthint: Illidan) as genuinely well intentioned. They are narcissists. This is true of Kael'thas as well, who happens to be one of my favourite characters. Initially, he was a good guy but he went off his rocker, unfortunately, and became more and more insane under KJ's grip, believing he was still somehow bringing about the salvation of his people. In Illidan's case, the Well mattered more to him, so he switched allegiances. Ironically, Arthas, Illidan and Kael'thas all had rather similar fates and intentions.

However, I don't really care whether the faction leaders are well intentioned, or not. To the Naga, Azshara is their Queen and in her they entrust they welfare. Much like the Forsaken do in Sylvanas. I really don't see a huge difference. Sylvanas is also an evil bitch as far as I am concerned. I still like her. You could also argue that the Forsaken are driven by little than petty revenge, particularly now that the LK is gone, and yet they still burn with hatred of mankind. I am not saying this makes them villains. Simply that not all the faction leaders are not the image of Mother Theresa, so the precedent is there.

Azshara's flaw is hubris, but the only difference between a god and an aspirant one is that one has already made it. That's about it.

[Mormolyce]

They and almost everyone else.

Yeah but they started it and took Razor Hill before anyone else turned up.

Also the achievement and tabard said Darkspear Rebellion, so proof!

Well if we're going to justify things with game logic, then the high elf population of Dalaran alone is enough to oppose the entirety of Silvermoon *with* the Sunreavers added to it, clearly there are more high elves than blood elves... *cough*

But Dalaran was a neutral city, and Lor'themar was never of a mind to persecute (non-Blood) High Elves anyway.

(I get the feeling people are going to throw paragraphs of novel lore at me now...)

Queen Azshara would be a great expansion boss and even N'Zoth. With Neptulon captured it would be a good chance to save him.

I'd tap that.

For mana.

True, but then we also have Illidan portrayed as a hero, who was also consistently horrible. Like Azshara, he is a narcissist, who tried to 'save' his people for his own glory, irrespective of the costs (this is something a lot of the major heroes exhibit, actually.) And also, bear in mind, he sided with her when it became clear the intention was to destroy the Well. Personally, I don't think it makes either of them 'bad' guys. Xavius was the true villain, as he knew that what was coming through the portal wasn't what Azshara, or anyone in her cadre, was expecting.

But just listen to that Shakespearian sneer. Illidan is too cool to be a bad guy!

Eh, in my view a lot of the 'good' guys, driven by supposedly benign intentions, actually do a lot worse than they do good. I also struggle to view someone with a Messiah complex (hinthint: Illidan) as genuinely well intentioned. They are narcissists. This is true of Kael'thas as well, who happens to be one of my favourite characters. Initially, he was a good guy but he went off his rocker, unfortunately, and became more and more insane under KJ's grip, believing he was still somehow bringing about the salvation of his people. In Illidan's case, the Well mattered more to him, so he switched allegiances. Ironically, Arthas, Illidan and Kael'thas all had rather similar fates and intentions.

Tyrande was pretty damn rash back in Warcraft III too. Though arguably for good reason. Similarly Maiev is downright obsessed.

You can say that these things are flaws, but hey it's a much more interesting story than if every hero had a monastic zen approach to everything that's perfect and totally above criticism.

What I'm saying is, we only need one Velenn :P

[Maxilian]

Tyrande was pretty damn rash back in Warcraft III too. Though arguably for good reason. Similarly Maiev is downright obsessed.

You can say that these things are flaws, but hey it's a much more interesting story than if every hero had a monastic zen approach to everything that's perfect and totally above criticism.

What I'm saying is, we only need one Velenn :P

I agree, i hate when 1 character is way too perfect and everything he do is completely and unquestionable good, COME ON!! NOONE IS LIKE THAT!

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I agree, i hate when 1 character is way too perfect and everything he do is completely and unquestionable good, COME ON!! NOONE IS LIKE THAT!

In fairness someone could be right all the time and someone could not even agree at all and be so upset about it. For example


Aeluron Lightsong(Me) is mad or rather will be mad when Hellscream escapes because he wants vengeance(Yeah yeah it's not necessarily right for someone like him but again you get the idea) for killing his parents at Theramore(They were there at the time). He doesn't agree with giving him a trial(He'd rather just kill him in combat).

See while Ael might be right in some respects. Doesn't mean people will agree. Pretty sure Anduin would look at me weird

[Maxilian]

In fairness someone could be right all the time and someone could not even agree at all and be so upset about it. For example


Aeluron Lightsong(Me) is mad or rather will be mad when Hellscream escapes because he wants vengeance(Yeah yeah it's not necessarily right for someone like him but again you get the idea) for killing his parents at Theramore(They were there at the time). He doesn't agree with giving him a trial(He'd rather just kill him in combat).

See while Ael might be right in some respects. Doesn't mean people will agree. Pretty sure Anduin would look at me weird

I'm not talking about being right or not, or people agreeing with you or not, is the idea of someone doing always the good thing and it isn't even questionable, you can't even wonder if what he/she is doing is actually good or bad, for example, Sylvanas, she have done many bad things but she had "excuses" that makes people wonder is that actually bad? (I don't want to debate if Sylvanas is good or bad, it was just an example)

[Immitis]

even velen has some flaws.

the problem is that we hardly ever get to see him do anything except in his short story so most people dont see any

[Maxilian]

even velen has some flaws.

the problem is that we hardly ever get to see him do anything except in his short story so most people dont see any

Does he really have flaws? is not the same when you made mistakes and when you actually have a flaw

[Immitis]

Does he really have flaws? is not the same when you made mistakes and when you actually have a flaw

the short story showed that he had a serious problem with looking at the big picture to much to the point that he was ignoring or brushing off serious short term problems. he was also having trouble leading his people because he thinks about all the different possibilities to much.

basically hes so preoccupied with trying to figure out what he should do that he doesnt actually do anything and ends up failing his responsibilities

[Maxilian]

the short story showed that he had a serious problem with looking at the big picture to much to the point that he was ignoring or brushing off serious short term problems. he was also having trouble leading his people because he thinks about all the different possibilities to much.

basically hes so preoccupied with trying to figure out what he should do that he doesnt actually do anything and ends up failing his responsibilities

You got a point...

(Well i was mostly thinking about the pure white or pure black idea but in the end that's still a flaw :P )

[Sinryu]

the short story showed that he had a serious problem with looking at the big picture to much to the point that he was ignoring or brushing off serious short term problems. he was also having trouble leading his people because he thinks about all the different possibilities to much.

basically hes so preoccupied with trying to figure out what he should do that he doesnt actually do anything and ends up failing his responsibilities

Well, look at is "guessed" age...he's older than most of the eredar that joined the burning legion tens of thousands of years ago...and he's been this focused on the "big picture" the whole time, that's how he's managed to survive this long and lead his people shouldn't be a problem, seeing as "adult" draenei are hundreds of years old, they've experienced how he works first hand and would (or should) trust him...if he doesn't "Sweat the small stuff" there's a reason behind it....at least 25 Millennia of "Big Picture" thinking...

[Immitis]

female draenei artcraft is for the 1st week of april. male tauren animations no eta and environment art sneak peak no eta.

from chris g's twitter

apparently this was on the front page since like hours ago.

teaches me for not checking the front page before i post >_<

[Maxilian]

female draenei artcraft is for the 1st week of april. male tauren animations no eta and environment art sneak peak no eta.

from chris g's twitter

Yeah, the problem is... 1st week of april -> April fools day, so i'm not expecting much :S

[Immitis]

Yeah, the problem is... 1st week of april -> April fools day, so i'm not expecting much :S

yeah but he announced female draenei stuff like weeks ago.

[Shadowtwili]

Just expect a typical Blizzard joke, if they do reveal the Draenei model, it will only be plus points for them ;p

Also, any ideas for subrace for Draenei's? Shoc, maybe you could make some more Undeath skins, Eredar skins and change the model abit to look like a Krokul Draenei?