Do you think Nostalgia is BS?

[Kickbuttmario]

So I was leveling my wow character (got excited for WoD, got a new account) and as I was leveling in Eastern Plaguelands and revisted the old Deathknight starting zone. Now here's what happened, when I entered the area, I got a huge nostalgia feeling. I was looking around this area and wow, time has really passed...

But here's the thing, the majority of my memories of WOTLK was just a mess. I was in a horrible server, filled with people who were jerks and drama queens. I myself was a teenage and was so stupid back then. I also thought Wrath to this day was where Blizzard went horribly wrong, not Cata or Mop; Wrath. And yet, I somehow got feelings of nostalgia over a zone where I possibly remade deathknight characters like 3-5 times randomly. I know me and my brother did the exact same thing.

Now here's the thing. I got feelings of nostalgia over something so petty. I am sure I will get it again for TBC but can't help but think how stupid this feeling is. I get feelings of nostalgia over something that was so long ago, despite how terrible it was back then.

What are your thoughts on this? Do you think Nostalgia is awesome or do you think it sucks like me.

[wych]

Nostalgia is just a feeling. It's dangerous when discussing what route the game should take and when it was best as objectivity becomes near impossible.

I enjoy the odd bit of nostalgia but too many people are obsessed with the past and forget the flaws.

Having said that, I enjoyed wow most in TBC

[fixx]

Nostalgia is very real (not BS) but it's based on memories that change over time and only positive feelings. I think it's ok to remember you had fun (even if you didnt in reality) because happy people live longer.

Where things go wrong is if you start wallowing in it (like many forum threads do) or try to relive it which is impossible because its based on false memories.

[schwarzkopf]

Nostalgia is fine, just need to stop treating is as fact.

[Ratboy]

The problem is that nostalgia is different for everyone. What I remember as something that was complete crap someone else thinks was the most amazing thing ever.

[RickJamesLich]

Personally I think if you enjoy something from the past, you don't have to feel "ashamed" for liking it.

[Templis]

Nostalgia is just a feeling. It's dangerous when discussing what route the game should take and when it was best as objectivity becomes near impossible.

I enjoy the odd bit of nostalgia but too many people are obsessed with the past and forget the flaws.

Having said that, I enjoyed wow most in TBC

Yep. When I think back to my first few apartments and how gritty they were, I get nostalgic and remember all the good times, when the reality was that when I lived there, I wanted to leave as QUICKLY as possible. It's all about hindsight and reliving the positive aspects of an older experience.

On the other hand, I think nostalgia is a go-to response used by many posters to shut down opposing ideas or preferences that reference an older time in the game. It makes for a poor environment to discuss the game, especially considering that it is almost 10 years old now. It forces the concept that anything newly introduced to the game would be beneficial to everyone's enjoyment, which in itself is just as bad as claiming that any new addition makes the game less enjoyable.

I also think that without nostalgia, this game wouldn't have half the subs it has today.

[ComputerNerd]

The feelings people have for vanilla or tbc are very selective when they choose to recall them, and strongly biased towards any argument they wish to present.
LOTS of things changed between then and now, and not all of them in the game.
You have changed as a player, and the community has changed.
When people choose to ignore the bad bits, or simply insist that something is better irrespective of what anyone else thinks then that is nostalgia, opinion being blinded by overly optimistic or biased memories.

Nostalgia isn't an excuse, but a very valid criticism against people who are unwilling to accept the truth.
You can't remake an experience through artificial means, when that experience was reliant on something that the game did not have any part in creating, the community.
That has been destroyed, and is not coming back.

[Revi]

I wish that word would be banned from discussions here.
Personally, I had the best experience of WoW during TBC. That's my own experience, and a lot of people have had a completely different one, and a lot of people never got to try it. Just because someone prefer a different version of the game then you, doesn't mean their memories are distorted or biased.

What really annoys me is when people bring up factual game design differences, and claim the old one was better, people just shout "nostalgia" and suddenly the discussion is invalid.

I wish people could exchange actual arguments or at least reasons for their opinions instead of jumping on the "lol nostalgia" bandwagon.

Nostalgia isn't an excuse, but a very valid criticism against people who are unwilling to accept the truth.
You can't remake an experience through artificial means, when that experience was reliant on something that the game did not have any part in creating, the community.
That has been destroyed, and is not coming back.

It's really not. There is no "truth" to accept. What makes a game good is entirely subjective, not a matter of right or wrong.
I preferred the design philosophy of TBC over MoP. You don't. Both those statements are true. If you honestly think there's one universal "truth" when it comes to opinion, then what are you doing on a discussion forum?

Oh, I also preferred TBC over Vanilla (raided in both), how does that work? opposite nostalgia?

Whether or not game design shapes the community is another discussion, but stating that it doesn't, as if it were facts, is just ignorant.

[Rheckameohs]

Sometimes I feel the twangs of nostalgia, but I quickly push those aside once I remember just how bad it used to be.

In that light, yeah, nostalgia is BS, because it prevents you from remembering how things actually were. Rose tinted glasses, etc. I personally think WoW is a hell of a lot better than it used to be.

[Deleted]

I preferred the design philosophy of TBC over MoP. You don't. Both those statements are true.

Having started in very late TBC and mostly played since WotLK, a genuine question: what about TBC was good and is now lost, design-wise? Try to make it simple for me, just 2-3 specifics (if possible). And, do you think that with the changes to some core game systems and to things like e.g. raids, could some of this good design be reinstated?

[fixx]

Just because someone prefer a different version of the game then you, doesn't mean their memories are distorted or biased.

There's two well documented psychological facts
- people's memories get distorted over time, and
- people remember more good things than bad things.

It really does mean and is scientifically proven that nostalgia is distorted and biased.

Having started in very late TBC and mostly played since WotLK, a genuine question: what about TBC was good and is now lost, design-wise?

Classes were more different which is the good design that people like to remember.

On the downside there were several specs that were totally unplayable because those were "support" classes without competitive DPS potential. For start of WLK all support classes were erased and hybrid tax removed which made all specs perform similar but also play more similar.

[Sky High]

nostalgia for me is like a bottle of koolaid "juice", the ones that came in a lil plastic bottle with a tearable top. first you think of how awesome it was when you were a kid, then one sip, and all that overly sweet corn syrupy taste reminds me of how awful it really was.

[Rheckameohs]

Having started in very late TBC and mostly played since WotLK, a genuine question: what about TBC was good and is now lost, design-wise? Try to make it simple for me, just 2-3 specifics (if possible). And, do you think that with the changes to some core game systems and to things like e.g. raids, could some of this good design be reinstated?

- Class homogenization was nowhere near what it is today. Your class felt unique. Like fixx said, though, this led to a lot of specs (e.g. Ret) being pretty much shit, so this point is debatable.
- Raids were more accessible than they were in Vanilla, but there was still a lot of prestige for wearing a full raid tier set. There was no "catch up" system, because the game encouraged people to run through each raid and gear up that way, usually starting in Kara and moving up from there.
- The lack of cross-realm interactivity meant that you grew to know people on your realm. You knew if they were good, or if they were shit. People who were shit, and especially people who refused to stop being shit, suffered the consequences.

Was TBC perfect? No. Server strain and lag were common problems, and if you think gatekeeping is bad now...oh buddy, you don't even know. But it had some good ideas, and even if it wasn't my favorite expansion (it's just behind Wrath and Cata - bite me), I enjoyed the shit out of it.

[Warlord Booty]

3 options along with a both....

I miss "Greetings, citizen" before killing General Marcus outside of Stormwind.

[Revi]

Having started in very late TBC and mostly played since WotLK, a genuine question: what about TBC was good and is now lost, design-wise? Try to make it simple for me, just 2-3 specifics (if possible). And, do you think that with the changes to some core game systems and to things like e.g. raids, could some of this good design be reinstated?

2-3 short ones, off the top of my head:
- All content staying relevant, instead of only the latest tier. When a new guild formed on my server late in the expansion, they progressed through Kara while mine was in BT. It was still challenging and rewarding for both guilds.
- One difficulty mode. When I beat one raid, instead of doing the same one over again, I moved on to the next.
- Much more resources put into 5-man content. 5-man heroics offered a fun challenge.
- More personal accountability and contact. Gearing up was a lot easier if you had friends to group with, and for raiding you needed a guild. Basically, if you weren't a decent person, you struggled. I think changes in game design is the biggest cause of a changing community.

That was 4, sorry. And yes i know there were things that are much better now, but overall I preferred TBC for those reasons, and many others.

There's two well documented psychological facts
- people's memories get distorted over time, and
- people remember more good things than bad things.

It really does mean and is scientifically proven that nostalgia is distorted and biased.

That does not, in any way, prove that past experiences can't be better than more recent ones. I can prefer a experience i had 8 years ago to an experience i had yesterday, without it having anything to do with nostalgia.

If I told you that I liked Coca Cola light w/ lime (Haven't been in stores here for 5 years), over Coca Cola Zero, would that be distorted and biased simply because one is old and one is current? Or could it be that I just preferred that type of Coca Cola?

[fixx]

That does not, in any way, prove that past experiences can't be better than more recent ones. I can prefer a experience i had 8 years ago to an experience i had yesterday, without it having anything to do with nostalgia.

Indeed, but the memories from eight years ago are already severely distorted by now and you can't really be sure.

If I told you that I liked Coca Cola light w/ lime (Haven't been in stores here for 5 years), over Coca Cola Zero, would that be distorted and biased simply because one is old and one is current? Or could it be that I just preferred that type of Coca Cola?

You might think you like the lime better but in five years you've forgotten what it actually tastes like and all you remember is you liked it. Without doing a proper blind tasting test (along with several other brands) today you can't say for sure if it's just nostalgia or actual preference. Psychology is funny thing like that, and doing proper blind tests can and often will surprise people big time.

[tankbug]

I do search for things that made me happy a long time ago just out of curiosity. And it's a good feeling when you recognize something you had forgotten about. But I rather really enjoy something new than experience nostalgia, because sweet memories aren't reality anymore, it's kinda like fiction.

[Raiju]

You might think you like the lime better but in five years you've forgotten what it actually tastes like and all you remember is you liked it. Without doing a proper blind tasting test (along with several other brands) today you can't say for sure if it's just nostalgia or actual preference. Psychology is funny thing like that, and doing proper blind tests can and often will surprise people big time.

Blind tests aren't really applicable to a media where you largely use your eyes to take in data. Regardless of that an online gaming experience is hard to compare to a taste test. There's a lot of different factors going on.

[fixx]

Blind tests aren't really applicable to a media where you largely use your eyes to take in data. Regardless of that an online gaming experience is hard to compare to a taste test. There's a lot of different factors going on.

Of course it's not applicable to things like gaming, but having distorted memories and remembering mostly good things does affect your online gaming and will almost guarantee that in few years all you have left is nostalgia and nothing that even closely resembles reality. Reality tends to kill childhood nostalgia pretty fast when many (not all) simply can't stand computer games or TV shows or movies today they thought they loved as a kid.