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  1. #321
    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    This is what I was thinking. From the wording I just assumed Riposte converted the rating into rating.
    Riposte converts avoidance rating into crit rating for warriors.

  2. #322
    Hmmm, when they said getting rid of parry/dodge rating i was hoping they're actually getting rid of it :<

  3. #323
    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    Hmmm, when they said getting rid of parry/dodge rating i was hoping they're actually getting rid of it :<
    They said they were getting rid of it as a stat on gear.

  4. #324

  5. #325
    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    Welp, back to Haste/mastery/armor the entire expansion.
    Or play Warrior. Been a paladins since BC and I'm seriously considering it, which almost seems like admitting defeat. Just hoping things clear up during this 'alpha' period.

  6. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by Rewyn View Post
    Or play Warrior. Been a paladins since BC and I'm seriously considering it, which almost seems like admitting defeat. Just hoping things clear up during this 'alpha' period.
    I'm sorry, i don't play pleb classes. :>

  7. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by Rewyn View Post
    Or play Warrior. Been a paladins since BC and I'm seriously considering it, which almost seems like admitting defeat. Just hoping things clear up during this 'alpha' period.
    Calling it quits because of alpha notes is pretty crazy. I can't think of a single instance when prot has ever been bad, aside from vanilla. Which...well everything except warriors and priests were awful there.
    Last edited by Vaeladin; 2014-04-24 at 11:07 AM.

  8. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaeladin View Post
    Calling it quits because of alpha notes is pretty crazy. I can't think of a single instance when prot has ever been bad, aside from vanilla. Which...well everything except warriors and priests were awful there.
    Well, to me i dont really care that much with being bad or good, my main concern is the playstyle and how prot is played, right now we are unkillable afk meatshields, wich i dont like that much, but by the looks of it it is going to be worse, i dont want to play a spec i dont like just because it is good.

  9. #329
    Really don't think they've thought the Seal changes through properly. I can see why they want to make using the different seals more important but i don't really feel this is the way to do it. They removed just about every other form of stance dancing from classes, but giving it back to us? I mean, you pretty much have to macro it but then it's not even a real toggle, thanks to seals having a global cd, making the whole thing clunky during actual combat. That's a pretty important thing i think they forgot to mention (at least from what i can see). Either way, i don't see how it removes a button. Replacing 1 bind with another and adding an additional needless button press that doesn't make the gameplay anymore interesting than it already was.

    But maybe i'm missing something.
    We are warriors, born from the light
    An army for freedom, defenders of life
    Warriors, euphoria will rise
    Returning from darkness we bury all lies

  10. #330
    Quote Originally Posted by Xucuroz View Post
    Really don't think they've thought the Seal changes through properly. I can see why they want to make using the different seals more important but i don't really feel this is the way to do it. They removed just about every other form of stance dancing from classes, but giving it back to us? I mean, you pretty much have to macro it but then it's not even a real toggle, thanks to seals having a global cd, making the whole thing clunky during actual combat. That's a pretty important thing i think they forgot to mention (at least from what i can see). Either way, i don't see how it removes a button. Replacing 1 bind with another and adding an additional needless button press that doesn't make the gameplay anymore interesting than it already was.

    But maybe i'm missing something.
    pretty much my exact thoughts as well.... Le sigh

  11. #331
    I'm considering it for a few reasons
    1) Fun Factor. Most every proposed change, especially the new mandatory 'Stance Dancing' with GCD's sounds like a chore. They say they want us to seal twist (which seems to be something only blizzard wants) but instead of making seals meaningful and interesting, and give us a reason to WANT to seal twist on our own, they rammed it down our throats with a clunky mechanic.
    2) If self healing is reduced down significantly, there comes a point where its not a reasonable enough advantage compared to mobility/damage perks. If all tanks are going to be 'viable' and paladin self healing goes down from 'awesome' (or broken in 25H heroic, which was a problem, sadly one I think that sours most discussions) to 'it helps the healers' then I have to weigh what the real advantage there is.
    3) Mechanics. Avenger Seal is still resetting off dodge, a stat we never built around and one we CANT in warlords. We have no real reason to invest in crit like Warriors. Our answers to magic damage are a bit(much) more limited.

    That said, yes I'm being a bit dramatic, but thus far I've seen nothing in the patch notes that has been a 'positive' change that was not intended for all tanks. Instead its been 'removed, removed, removed, removed'. I see plenty of opportunity for them to improve our gameplay style and make it more interesting, but instead see their focus on making the 'empowered seals' talent 'work'.

    Will stop trying to be dramatic, but its scary to see that kind of dev logic being applied. Feels like hell or high water they are going to have their seal twisting...

  12. #332
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Hey Paladins: We're planning to revert the changes to Seals and Hammer of the Righteous. Thanks for all your feedback. Keep it coming.
    From the Ret thread, applies to Prot too I guess.

  13. #333
    ^ got to it before me lol

  14. #334
    Celeston updated seals and HotR

    Cant post link yet, sorry guys

    "Hey Paladins: We're planning to revert the changes to Seals and Hammer of the Righteous. Thanks for all your feedback. Keep it coming."

    EDIT: Lol we're all so excited someone beat me to it ;P

  15. #335
    Quote Originally Posted by nightfalls View Post
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Hey Paladins: We're planning to revert the changes to Seals and Hammer of the Righteous. Thanks for all your feedback. Keep it coming.
    From the Ret thread, applies to Prot too I guess.
    I'm going to link this for sure to my guildie, who's also a paladin (mains Ret). He got on my case for complaining so much about alpha changes, but this is the reason why so many of us do so: to prevent these terrible changes from making live.

  16. #336
    Quote Originally Posted by trystero View Post
    I'm going to link this for sure to my guildie, who's also a paladin (mains Ret). He got on my case for complaining so much about alpha changes, but this is the reason why so many of us do so: to prevent these terrible changes from making live.
    Better complain during development than be forced to complain or reroll or change guilds/quit b/c bench during live. I don't get what the "stfu whiner wait till it goes live" people think.

  17. #337
    The time to complain is in alpha. Things are harder to change in beta and even harder once released.

    Just be constructive and give feedback; lots of feedback.

    I for one do not like seals; they are dull. Switching from SoR to SoT is clunky in and of itself, so i never even bother (SoR doesnt do enough to generally feel worth giving up SoI. IF SoI is 'gutted' so i dont use it, then thats kind of a crappy solution isnt it?).

    SoT/SoR should be combined to a 'damage' Seal, that applies damage based on the # of targets hit (1 target=strong damage + censure. Multiple targets=weaker damage + a weaker version of censure potentially).

    Then take the other two seals and make them useful based on spec: Example
    1st Seal) DAMAGE (aoe/single target, etc)
    2nd Seal) If attacking a target that you do not have main threat on, your 'self healing' (SoI) procs are increased by 200% and applied to the current target of target.
    3rd Seal) Every time you block an attack, a nearby party member receives a temporary damage shield.

    So right there different situations, different uses. If im tanking and there is raid damage incoming, ill swap to give melee shields. If im tank swapping and the other tank is taking heavy damage, in a very paladin ish way, ill swap to give him my 'amped' up self heal SoI procs (the ones now built into our spec). Any other time ill stick with damage.

  18. #338
    Personally I thought the idea of having your seal change CS to HOTR would be a welcome change, and passive Insight would be the icing on the cake; it would finally give a definitive line to what seal to use when (e.g. SoT for single-target, SoR for multiple target). But that's just me; I'd also like there to be one seal for each spec like the old Warrior was (Arms = Battle, Fury = Berserker, Prot = Defensive). I find "seal twisting" to be needless complexity.

    Can't say I'd be happy about losing wings though...
    Last edited by Nobleshield; 2014-04-24 at 06:38 PM.

  19. #339
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    Personally I thought the idea of having your seal change CS to HOTR would be a welcome change, and passive Insight would be the icing on the cake; it would finally give a definitive line to what seal to use when (e.g. SoT for single-target, SoR for multiple target). But that's just me.

    Can't say I'd be happy about losing wings though...
    It would be if the seals weren't on the global. Losing a global cooldown everytime you have to swap from single target to AoE is completely retarded. They should still bake in the SoI stuff, but they should also get rid of that stupid Empowered Seals Talent. Oh, and TAKE SEALS OFF OF THE GLOBAL.

    On another topic: I really hope Seraphim isn't the best talent for Prot. It's going to make our rotation really weird having to cast a 5 HoPo ability every 30 seconds.

  20. #340
    Quote Originally Posted by Blizzhoof View Post
    It would be if the seals weren't on the global. Losing a global cooldown everytime you have to swap from single target to AoE is completely retarded. They should still bake in the SoI stuff, but they should also get rid of that stupid Empowered Seals Talent. Oh, and TAKE SEALS OFF OF THE GLOBAL.

    On another topic: I really hope Seraphim isn't the best talent for Prot. It's going to make our rotation really weird having to cast a 5 HoPo ability every 30 seconds.
    Yeah that seems pretty lame. But personally I'm against any sort of "upkeep" buff; IMO all that stuff should be baked into regular finishers that you would do anyways.

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