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  1. #681
    DP at 7% is far too strong considering you're not giving up anything close to what other healers give up.

    to put it in perspective it takes 18 seconds for a pally to gen 3 HP to use DP (7%) mana, likewise it takes 16 seconds for a MW to get back 8% mana. i would rather sacrifice 1 ef/wog/lod over not doing anything but standing still and channeling a spell for 16 seconds. another perspective: shamans have to spam LB for 15 seconds (6 casts) in order to get back 7.5% of their mana. druids would have to not heal for 16 seconds to get back 7.5% of their mana (10 sec + 6 sec).

    pallies have it by far the best now, you don't actually lose any healing uptime at all. you just lose being able to use 1 spell every 18 seconds, all other healers have to actually stop doing what they're doing for a huge amount of time.

    DP should be around 5% imo

  2. #682
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    DP at 7% is far too strong considering you're not giving up anything close to what other healers give up.

    to put it in perspective it takes 18 seconds for a pally to gen 3 HP to use DP (7%) mana, likewise it takes 16 seconds for a MW to get back 8% mana. i would rather sacrifice 1 ef/wog/lod over not doing anything but standing still and channeling a spell for 16 seconds. another perspective: shamans have to spam LB for 15 seconds (6 casts) in order to get back 7.5% of their mana. druids would have to not heal for 16 seconds to get back 7.5% of their mana (10 sec + 6 sec).

    pallies have it by far the best now, you don't actually lose any healing uptime at all. you just lose being able to use 1 spell every 18 seconds, all other healers have to actually stop doing what they're doing for a huge amount of time.

    DP should be around 5% imo
    DP 5% is way too little. 7% is fine(maybe), its just that WoG is shit, so this accentuates more the LoD or Divine Plea answer.

  3. #683
    Quote Originally Posted by Aladya View Post
    DP 5% is way too little. 7% is fine(maybe), its just that WoG is shit, so this accentuates more the LoD or Divine Plea answer.
    maybe but 7% sounds like far too much. either EF/LoD/WoG heal for far too little or DP is too strong because honestly pallies lose nothing from casting DP.

    the only concern i have is that you're giving up very little compared to what other healers give up. maybe that's the trade off though, you regen mana better because your heals are "weaker" than other classes /shrug

    i think druids got nerfed quite hard though, if efflo actually has a mana cost attached to it (because as is it's ridiculous) i think they'd suffer hard :P

  4. #684
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    maybe but 7% sounds like far too much. either EF/LoD/WoG heal for far too little or DP is too strong because honestly pallies lose nothing from casting DP.

    the only concern i have is that you're giving up very little compared to what other healers give up. maybe that's the trade off though, you regen mana better because your heals are "weaker" than other classes /shrug

    i think druids got nerfed quite hard though, if efflo actually has a mana cost attached to it (because as is it's ridiculous) i think they'd suffer hard :P
    EF got nerfed, and LoD was always meant to be paired with SH(which is pretty much gone) and its vastly increased HP generation, hence it is true that EF/LoD heals too little atm.

    That and our generators' mana cost went up from a premium to...well, a super premium so to speak.
    Last edited by PosPosPos; 2014-04-25 at 12:05 AM.
    "My successes are my own, but my failures are due to extremist leftist liberals" - Party of Personal Responsibility

    Prediction for the future

  5. #685
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    the only concern i have is that you're giving up very little compared to what other healers give up. maybe that's the trade off though, you regen mana better because your heals are "weaker" than other classes /shrug
    You're giving up a fuckton.

    Effectively you're stuck Holy Shock and nothing else during downtime which requires at least 18 seconds of downtime (compare to 8 for druids, 4 for monk, even less for others). During that you're doing nothing else but Denounce, you can't use 1HP or 2HP Plea (if you could, 7% for 3 would be fine) since it's a minimum of 3. To get 3 HP during downtime you otherwise have to waste huge mana cost heals to generate it, but then it's a waste because downtime.

    Now, if you use generators for the sake of the healing and not the HP, that's different. But as in MOP and we have few reasons to suggest it will be drastically different the high mana cost and low healing of generators is intended to be offset by using HP on finishers. Switching it back to mana just means we do low healing with relatively lower mana, but not much since a single HR is still over 7% mana and Flash of Light is quite up there.

  6. #686
    Quote Originally Posted by Aladya View Post
    7% is fine(maybe)
    it means that blood elf paladins are gimped

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by nightfalls View Post
    Effectively you're stuck Holy Shock and nothing else during downtime which requires at least 18 seconds of downtime (compare to 8 for druids, 4 for monk, even less for others).
    3x HS cost 9% mana... you cant regen mana by using HSx3, DP

    actually you cant even use HS, HLx2, HS, HLx2, HS, HL, DP, which cost 27.5% of mana
    we get 2% of mana as passive mp5 in MoP. even if they buff it to 4% as passive mp5 in WoD, you will get 15.2% of mana from mana regen and 7% of mana from plea. it is -5.3% mana per cycle. you will go oom in 18 cycles or 6 minutes
    Last edited by btard; 2014-04-25 at 01:31 AM.

  7. #687
    Quote Originally Posted by nightfalls View Post
    You're giving up a fuckton.

    Effectively you're stuck Holy Shock and nothing else during downtime which requires at least 18 seconds of downtime (compare to 8 for druids, 4 for monk, even less for others). During that you're doing nothing else but Denounce, you can't use 1HP or 2HP Plea (if you could, 7% for 3 would be fine) since it's a minimum of 3. To get 3 HP during downtime you otherwise have to waste huge mana cost heals to generate it, but then it's a waste because downtime.

    Now, if you use generators for the sake of the healing and not the HP, that's different. But as in MOP and we have few reasons to suggest it will be drastically different the high mana cost and low healing of generators is intended to be offset by using HP on finishers. Switching it back to mana just means we do low healing with relatively lower mana, but not much since a single HR is still over 7% mana and Flash of Light is quite up there.
    i dont think you understand how holy paladins work. you can cast other heals in between HS cd, but MWs for example can't channel soothing mists while they're channeling CJL. likewise shamans can't cast HW while they're casting LB. thats why you're giving up very little. all you lose is 1 heal and a 1.5 sec gcd - other healers (to gen the same mana) give up a lot more.

    the idea that 3x HS into DP should be mana-positive is pretty stupid too

  8. #688
    why should i cast anything but cjl, for instance, in garrosh room 1? why should i cast anything but cjl in garrosh p4 when no malice is up? why should i cast anything but cjl when raid kills first paragon of klaxxi? why should i cast anything but cjl when sha of fear is above 30% of hp? etc.

    right now i can't use denounce at these moments because it costs too much mana for 0 damage it deals

  9. #689
    Quote Originally Posted by btard View Post
    why should i cast anything but cjl, for instance, in garrosh room 1? why should i cast anything but cjl in garrosh p4 when no malice is up? why should i cast anything but cjl when raid kills first paragon of klaxxi? why should i cast anything but cjl when sha of fear is above 30% of hp? etc.

    right now i can't use denounce at these moments because it costs too much mana for 0 damage it deals
    because cjl does no dmg in the stance it restores mana

  10. #690
    so is it better to just /dance during that phases?

  11. #691
    Quote Originally Posted by btard View Post
    so is it better to just /dance during that phases?
    it's better to generate chi and make sure ReM is up

  12. #692
    how does your rem help your raid to clear first room with 24 energy or less?

  13. #693
    Quote Originally Posted by btard View Post
    how your rem is helping your raid to clear first room before 24 energy?
    if it's a question of dps you'll go dps stance and play that way but you cant regen mana in that stance

  14. #694
    that's why dps-regen options for monk should be least fun... you got whole stance to do dps... cjl is only a bonus to your kit, you dont need it that much

  15. #695
    Quote Originally Posted by btard View Post
    that's why dps-regen options for monk should be least fun... you got whole stance to do dps... cjl is only a bonus to your kit, you dont need it that much
    why not? that stance is gonna have a niche use at best. should our healing stance be put in jeopardy because we have the option to quest as a healer lol

    besides mana tea is gonna be a lot weaker as we'll be generating a lot less chi than we do now

  16. #696
    cjl gives you the same 0.5% of mana per second as telluric currents or as priest chakra.

    if you hasn't seen it let me repeat. i cant use denounce, it costs too much mana. i cant spam DP cause i wont have holy power. using 3xHS, DP costs me 2% mana and my finisher (EF/LoD/whatever).
    Last edited by btard; 2014-04-25 at 01:55 AM.

  17. #697
    Quote Originally Posted by btard View Post
    cjl gives you the same 0.5% of mana per second as telluric currents or as priest chakra.
    no because if you cancel the channel at 3 sec you get 0 mana

    i would be happy if cjl providing .5% mana per sec

  18. #698
    http://intplate.com/guides-2/whats-n...ds-of-draenor/

    WoG and EF buffed. All Level 90 talents nerfed.

    Mana costs on HL, HR and HS reduced.
    Last edited by Lucyrotten; 2014-04-25 at 02:26 AM.
    Living the casual life, oh yeah.

  19. #699
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    no because if you cancel the channel at 3 sec you get 0 mana

    i would be happy if cjl providing .5% mana per sec
    dont cancel it. you were the #1 dude who told blizz that classes should be unique. this is your uniqueness, what makes cjl different from telluric currents or chakra + smite.

    btw if priest cancels smite after 1 sec of casting he won't get mana either. i think he should get 0.5% at least for trying to cast it
    Last edited by btard; 2014-04-25 at 02:02 AM.

  20. #700
    Quote Originally Posted by btard View Post
    dont cancel it. you were the #1 dude who told blizz that classes should be unique. this is your uniqueness, what makes cjl different from telluric currents or chakra + smite.
    "sorry boys i stood in fire but i had to complete my 4 sec channel to make the spell worth casting"

    best excuse for mythic raiding

    but sure keep comparing a 4 sec channel to a 2.5 sec cast or holy smite cast - really does your argument justice buddy

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