What spec will you level as?

[Warstar]

I've always assumed I was just going to level as combat since that's been my beloved spec since vanilla. But, if anything leveling 85 to 90 as a combat rogue has shown me just how horrible they scale. Currently combat is arguably the highest dps raid spec which should translate to an easy face roll leveling spec with awesome gear right? I don't think this will be the case especially considering combats heavy reliance on things like the AoC and 4 pc. tier set combination as well as ridiculous levels of haste (seriously go play your heroic geared combat rogue and then try to play a freshly dinged 90 it's horrible).

Currently on the timeless isle while killing big elites I find myself having to rotate cooldowns between them to have any sort of decent killing time as combat. And this is ok since I have an AoC and my CDs are up pretty much every elite and I can just rotate through them. Comparatively I can just burst something down within my opening FW period with sub or assassination just has steady high damage and steam rolls with stuff like MfD and deadly momentum.

Currently it really doesn't seem like there's going to be many changes to the rogue class aside from the removal of shadow blades and the addition of CP on the rogue (hurray!) so I'm assuming that game play is going to stay relatively the same.

Combat has many many band aids on it currently that get ripped to shreds once you start leveling. I have to assume the AoC will get some sort of rating on it that by 100 will be dog shit other wise it will continue to be the BiS trinket for the rest of time so as you level as combat you're eventually going to lose your 4 pc., the AoC will diminish to bad and your haste % will drop back down leaving you a sad sad combat rogue.

Sub on the other hand will have high burst at the start and you'll pretty much melt mobs as you start to level. With the change to shadow dance you'll actually be able to use it solo! Woo! And it has an innately low CD so you will frequently be able to drop any named quest mob you run into. But, as enemies get higher and higher HP pools and your stats diminish come close to 90 you'll end up hemo spamming your life away while mobs take longer and longer to die.

Assassination on the other hand seems like it's the best scaling spec at lower levels. You have compident aoe with all your poison damage and if MoP has anything to say assassination seems like it's the higher damage dealing spec at low item levels. But, it has a lack of burst out side of Vendetta. The addition of MfD and cp on the rogue will make leveling as assassination so much easier and you won't have the giant ramp up time that assassination currently has but should be able to go from mob to mob much easier.

Personally I'm think that I'll dual spec sub/assassination and start off as sub while I can still burst mobs dead in a few seconds and then once it gets a little longer swap over to assassination.

What about you all?

[PChaosWM]

I've always leveled my Rogue as Combat. I am no good at Subelty (and never have been) and I never found Assassination very interesting.

[Deleted]

I levelled as assassination in MoP and it was beyond painful. every level I gained, killing went slower and slower since haste percentages went down.
so I will go with combat this time.

[Squirl]

I have to play around with each spec on beta first (whenever that becomes available), but I'm leaning towards Assassination right now. Combat could be good too, but we'll probably still want to avoid Subt since BS still can't be used from the front.

You can probably kill most things with this: Mut (or Ambush) > Rupt > MfD > Env > Mut to 35% > Disp. Alternatively: MfD > Env > Mut/Disp > Rupt > Mut to 35% > Disp. This is assuming you already have SnD and Recup (if necessary) rolling from a previous mob.

Advantages of Mut:

• No downtime (VW energy return)
• Powerful execute
• Decent "cleave" (multi-Rupt)

Disadvantages:

• No real CDs (Vendetta almost useless on non-elites)

Contrast that with Combat's advantages:

• Powerful CDs (AR and KSp)
• Another pseudo-CD (Deep Insight)
• Great cleave (BF)

and disadvantages:

• Low damage outside of CDs
• Long CD times due to less RB (compared to boss fights)
• Low damage in no/Green/Yellow Insight as well as potential to drop it before Red
• Downtime due to energy regeneration

It basically comes down to this: Mut can burst something inside its larger energy pool, then recover most of it when the mob dies. Combat can pull multiple things and cleave them efficiently, as well as blow up mobs with CDs up, but damage is low outside of that.

[OneSent]

Not subtlety.

[Warstar]

Vs. berserkers on the timeless isle they typically die in a: cs -> garrote -> ambush -> evis -> mfg/evis and then maybe a hemo or two depending on crits.

Looking at a character fresh at lv90 with timeless isle gear those berserkers are still pretty hard so I can't see quest mobs being that big to take down which is why I'm just going to assume that leveling up (epsecially with the positional re movement of ambush) that most mobs will die within that if not earlier. I can't really see mobs getting much more difficulat than the berserkers just because a fresh character progressing leveling form 90 and up especially with the 483 gear that boosted 90's get it'd be a bit much for them.

Single target I'm pretty sure sub will burst harder than any other spec killing mobs one after another very quickly.

Rogues are pretty squishy even in heroic gear and have never been "pull everything and aoe it down" class like others are so especially as you get higher level and relative to the same level mobs weaker it will be harder and harder to blade flurry cleave mobs down.

Combat and sub should both be fine to level as since you can plow through single target mobs like butter but I really think sub will be stronger for the first few levels with it's higher burst that you can only get with combat through using CDs. FW eviscerates hit really hard! While combat can one shot mobs with KsP and AR those won't be up every mob where as FW will (as long as you can restealth).

Assassination potentially has a higher energy return with venomous wounds although sub does have energetic recovery which if kept rolling with deadly momentum should be comparable.

MfD will be the single greatest leveling talent ever hands down. Especially with the combination of cp on the rogue it should be amazing. Getting rupture up right away for assassination or a double evis during FW with sub. A little extra burst with combat but not nearly as much so perhaps anticipation might still be better for combat.

[Squirl]

Vs. berserkers on the timeless isle they typically die in a: cs -> garrote -> ambush -> evis -> mfg/evis and then maybe a hemo or two depending on crits.

Looking at a character fresh at lv90 with timeless isle gear those berserkers are still pretty hard so I can't see quest mobs being that big to take down which is why I'm just going to assume that leveling up (epsecially with the positional re movement of ambush) that most mobs will die within that if not earlier. I can't really see mobs getting much more difficulat than the berserkers just because a fresh character progressing leveling form 90 and up especially with the 483 gear that boosted 90's get it'd be a bit much for them.

Single target I'm pretty sure sub will burst harder than any other spec killing mobs one after another very quickly.

Rogues are pretty squishy even in heroic gear and have never been "pull everything and aoe it down" class like others are so especially as you get higher level and relative to the same level mobs weaker it will be harder and harder to blade flurry cleave mobs down.

Combat and sub should both be fine to level as since you can plow through single target mobs like butter but I really think sub will be stronger for the first few levels with it's higher burst that you can only get with combat through using CDs. FW eviscerates hit really hard! While combat can one shot mobs with KsP and AR those won't be up every mob where as FW will (as long as you can restealth).

Assassination potentially has a higher energy return with venomous wounds although sub does have energetic recovery which if kept rolling with deadly momentum should be comparable.

MfD will be the single greatest leveling talent ever hands down. Especially with the combination of cp on the rogue it should be amazing. Getting rupture up right away for assassination or a double evis during FW with sub. A little extra burst with combat but not nearly as much so perhaps anticipation might still be better for combat.

I've thought about Subt being best for the first few levels too. Its opening burst really is insane, but once you can't kill mobs inside FW (this will probably happen around 94-95 if MoP was any indicator), it will probably fall behind. Also, don't underestimate Mut's execute. Dispatch is absolutely sick and you can get questing mobs <35% really quickly with your opening burst. Every rogue spec has front-loaded damage just by nature of having an energy pool, and Subt especially so due to FW. However, if that innate burst is enough to push execute range, Mut continues to have heavy damage. The spec with the fastest kill speed will entirely depend on where on the damage curve mobs die for each spec.

Energetic Recovery really can't compare to VW when mobs are dying inside your energy pool; it's almost a full energy return. You'll probably end up waiting on energy at least a little bit as Subt.

I don't see Anticipation being better for Combat leveling. MfD is basically -10s on your CDs in addition to the damage from an Evisc for every mob you kill. They also probably won't live long enough for pushing into Anticipation for a higher Insight Evisc to be worth it.

Like I said initially, we're going to have to see everything on the beta before we can determine which spec will actually be the best for leveling. If you don't care about "best", any spec will probably be viable, and the difference will probably be fairly small.

[Warstar]

I've thought about Subt being best for the first few levels too. Its opening burst really is insane, but once you can't kill mobs inside FW (this will probably happen around 94-95 if MoP was any indicator), it will probably fall behind. Also, don't underestimate Mut's execute. Dispatch is absolutely sick and you can get questing mobs <35% really quickly with your opening burst. Every rogue spec has front-loaded damage just by nature of having an energy pool, and Subt especially so due to FW. However, if that innate burst is enough to push execute range, Mut continues to have heavy damage. The spec with the fastest kill speed will entirely depend on where on the damage curve mobs die for each spec.

Energetic Recovery really can't compare to VW when mobs are dying inside your energy pool; it's almost a full energy return. You'll probably end up waiting on energy at least a little bit as Subt.

I don't see Anticipation being better for Combat leveling. MfD is basically -10s on your CDs in addition to the damage from an Evisc for every mob you kill. They also probably won't live long enough for pushing into Anticipation for a higher Insight Evisc to be worth it.

Like I said initially, we're going to have to see everything on the beta before we can determine which spec will actually be the best for leveling. If you don't care about "best", any spec will probably be viable, and the difference will probably be fairly small.

Was thinking about anticipation mainly for the starting levels while you still have ridiculous haste levels.

And ya in my original post I stated sub at the start til you can no longer burst. Should be fun to mix it up since sub is a really fun "more-assassin-than-assassination" spec. But after that I'm really leaning towards assassination as the spec I'll most likely end up as and potentially start raiding as but that will have to be seen!

[Verain]

Generally I recommend Johnnie Walker black and a stack of caffeine pills.

Advantages:

> Mobs seem to die faster
> Deadly Momentum becomes pretty hilarious. It's just as good as normal, but's cool to watch the numbers change.
> You get chased out of leveling zones by the NPCs for being racist.
> Your aoe damage is like, this fucking much.


Disadvantages:

> Nothing you'll have to worry about.

[Coldkil]

I'm thinking (if i'm going to buy WoD) to level as Sub. I know it will be probably not optimal, but i plan to raid as Sub all the expansion if it delivers enough. Otherwise Assassination has always been a solid choice.

[Verain]

One of my most powerful gripes is how badly our aoe has been treated since the Cata changes. The moment that patch went through it's just been awful. That the expansion long bug with no rolling crimson tempest has been allowed to persist and is even being listed as a change for us in WoD is shocking enough.

But if tempest and flurry deliver, it's possible any spec can actually have a good time leveling.


I'm sure all the specs will be good for leveling. The deletion of old blade flurry will reduce combat's charm for certain. My gripe with sub for leveling is always the same- I really dislike the damage boost on bleeding targets combined with the inability to backstab. I really miss just spamming backstab on any target that matters, and the free backstab we can get with the gouge talent is not as pleasing as in the old days.

But even with that, sub should be fine. I leveled most of the way to 90 as mutilate, and it was fine. I do want to see the remainder of their WoD changes, though- I'm liking some of them, such as the rolling tempest and the revealing strike change, and others I can see could be great but they could break us, like the 50% red and whatever they keep insisting on to fuck up premed with. But for all I know everything could just click, or be crap.

It's no secret that I'm really not looking forward to the expansion- I think they are trying to make the game around some hypothetical group of newer folks who they hope to recruit with the movie, and I feel that that drives the time travel (presumably the movie will be set in the time where the characters are important), while still trying to continue to design the industry's top raid encounters AND redesigning just about every possible detail in the game. Normally it takes them 2-5 months just to fix stuff like "the OP pvp class can global people", so I don't see them nailing any of these massive changes (including a 20 man raid format) at the outset. But it's entirely possible that they'll really nail rogues early on- in pve, they had us in a good spot almost immediately in MoP.

[Deleted]

I will probably level to 100 as Combat, since I have 2 loom axes.

[catablitz]

Generally I recommend Johnnie Walker black and a stack of caffeine pills.

Two of the most important things in my life

On topic: Combat for start, Assa later.

[Deleted]

I will probably level with a resto druid at my side so I will go combat and cleave shit down and tank.

[Lesane]

Anything that's not sub. Subtlety has to deal with positional BS and completely relies on stealth. There is no form of cleave unlike the other specs. It might have a niche the first few levels if your gear allows you to one shot mobs, but I don't see any sane person leveling as Sub all the way to 100. Even those first few levels, restealthing between every mob to pull those 1 shots off will probably get annoying real fast. I switched around a few times during MOP leveling depending on the weapons I got along the way, although that shouldn't be much of a factor anymore. I prefer to level as Assassination really, because it's so easy to just mutilate > rupture and move on and let the mob die from DoT's.

[Warstar]

I think people make too much of an issue with backstab vs. hemo. Sub is incredibly easy to farm with as long as you have the gear for it which with the 10 levels vs. 5 levels like with mop you should continue to have strong gear at least til 94 or 95 when it'll start slowing down. I can farm elites on the timeless isle (even the big ones up at the sanctuary of ordos) faster as sub than I can as combat.

Btw a guildie was saying that while leveling up to 100 you'll earn your ability perks randomly so is it true there's a chance that maybe you'll be leveling as combat and get like a bonus mutilate perk?

[Wow]

I think people make too much of an issue with backstab vs. hemo. Sub is incredibly easy to farm with as long as you have the gear for it which with the 10 levels vs. 5 levels like with mop you should continue to have strong gear at least til 94 or 95 when it'll start slowing down. I can farm elites on the timeless isle (even the big ones up at the sanctuary of ordos) faster as sub than I can as combat.

Btw a guildie was saying that while leveling up to 100 you'll earn your ability perks randomly so is it true there's a chance that maybe you'll be leveling as combat and get like a bonus mutilate perk?

You solo high hp (7-10+m hp) mobs on isle easier spamming hemo and unable to use shadowdance than a spec that can make full use of everything interesting tale.

And no you only learn perks by spec.

[Dristereau]

Combat.
No concern over weapons (Sub/Assass get Damage Penalties)
Killing Spree/Adrenaline Rush are great for fast paced kills
Blade Flurry

Never been a fan of Assass much (Leveling one now on live, sure it will feel extremely energy starved whilst leveling to 100)
Sub relies on Stealth too much, usually energy starved, and after the initial burst it often feels weak.

[Mormolyce]

Used to be Combat because Blade Flurry. Now you'd probably have to pull too many targets to make Flurry efficient.

So I dunno, probably a mix of Combat and Assass.

[Warstar]

You solo high hp (7-10+m hp) mobs on isle easier spamming hemo and unable to use shadowdance than a spec that can make full use of everything interesting tale.

And no you only learn perks by spec.

Unlike stuff like vendetta or killing spree or adrenaline rush. Opening with sub has FW up every single time. Lesser non-elite mobs die too quick to do anything with. Berserker elites die with a 5 cp evis + MfD evis. Elites up by ordos I find die as fast as if I were combat using adrenaline rush or killing spree. They die even fast if I use shadow dance. And who ever said I was running around spamming hemo? That sounds like a horrible way to play sub... Sub has a really strong opener that does higher burst damage than any other spec and this is why it's possible to solo stuff on the timeless isle faster than other specs.