Everybody Misinterprets what TBC ment

[Fennixx]

But you should expect to do a dungeon with the 1/3/1 setup. Nobody is talking about a 5 DD setup.

And you were able to do it back in Cata and back in TBC.

Sure, some group comps made it easier, but it was doable on any tank, healer, 3 dps group.

Granted, if you had no (few) CC's*, you should expect to wipe there and there. That seems right IMO. Group balancing is/was (and should be) important to do progression path content (heroics dungeons).

* NOt an issue at this point since most classes have at least one good CC spell.

[Bigbazz]

But you should expect to do a dungeon with the 1/3/1 setup. Nobody is talking about a 5 DD setup.

Well you could succeed without CC if you had good players with good gear and a good strategy, it was just much much more difficult than with CC, the more CC the easier it became. But I regularly did heroics on my Fury Warrior in groups with just 1 mage. I admit though it was a nightmare to play as a hybrid, the only way to really get a regular group was to make connections with players on your server, build a reputation and/or be in an active guild, and that's what I did.

These days though it's gone the other way. The other day I joined a 5man LFG heroic and the healer dc'd instantly, the 3rd dps didn't zone in and our tank was an Arms Warrior.

Arms Warrior
Arms Warrior
Frost Mage

And we cleared the heroic so fast it was like... damn I guess you don't need a tank nor healer these days. The heroics currently are so easy that you can probably solo them quite easily with some classes. In TBC it was a little too harsh on hybrid/non cc classes with the way classes and heroic dungeons were tuned, but now it's way too lenient, they are just complete farmfests.


I suppose these days we have Challenge modes, which are comparable to TBC heroics.

[Raiju]

Why are you acting like Black temple was hard. seriously.

I have a question, Did you think Gorefiend was hard?

When the comparison is hyjal, yes I would say black temple is noticeably harder.

No I didn't personally find gorefiend hard.

[Bigbazz]

Personally, I thought Black Temple was pretty hard, the tuning was pretty steep even if the mechanics were generally very easy. It was harder than current normal modes, which typically a lot of people have had trouble with (though less so in SOO I suppose) and the harder fights were comparable to some of the later hardmodes.

It wasn't tuned super hard of course (as sunwell was), but there were a lot of situations where a small mistake from one player would result in a wipe (ROS interupts, lol). And the fact that so many guilds were pushing 25man progress and getting stuck on Gorefiend means that for the general population he was hard. I remember my first real raiding guild and some of the guys just could not do the ghosts, and that resulted in wiping all day... and that was a common thing for a shitload of guilds.

I later joined a much higher ranked server first competitive guild and we cleared the whole of BT without wipes like it was nothing. Sure bosses are easy when you play with the best players, but those reprisent the vast minority, not a majority opinion. A lot of guilds hit a brick wall at Teron Gorefiend, even guilds that managed to beat Vashj/KT... which is completely crazy to me, since they were multiple times more difficult.

[anaxie]

Tier 11 wasn't THAT crazy. (Besides, If Tier 11 was the king of difficult raiding, then why do you all hate Cata so much and have wet dreams about TBC all the time?)



Why is it hilarious? It was the truth in TBC, getting together a run of anything without already being geared way, way beyond it was like pulling teeth. (It's still the truth today, too.)

U said endgame so everyone was in t5 t6 and sun well or gtfo. You're hilarious. Also cat a wasn't bad that's what uninformed people who couldn't clear t11 or h rag said. Cats did suck because if the extremely easy h raid and low boss count. And no spine was not hard. The fight itself was unchallenging the only hard part was killing tendons with burst CDs in a 20 second window if it was actually hard it would of been yogg0 n Hrag n Hulk aka inaccessible.

[Kryos]

The subs kept growing and peaked around Cata launch. It was from there they went downhill. You don't need to remember correctly, this information is freely available and well documented.

Yes, here it is:

[anaxie]

U said endgame so everyone was in t5 t6 and sun well or gtfo. You're hilarious. Also cat a wasn't bad that's what uninformed people who couldn't clear t11 or h rag said. Cats did suck because if the extremely easy h raid and low boss count. And no spine was not hard. The fight itself was unchallenging the only hard part was killing tendons with burst CDs in a 20 second window if it was actually hard it would of been yogg0 n Hrag n Hulk aka inaccessible.

Also phone posting blows

[Kryos]

Tier 11 wasn't THAT crazy. (Besides, If Tier 11 was the king of difficult raiding, then why do you all hate Cata so much and have wet dreams about TBC all the time?)

Because it never was about objectivity. It's all about nostalgia and people calling that content they personally had problems with the hardest. For me that was Nax40 where we killed the final boss the day before TBC was released. For others it was Sunwell and today you have people who think T11 was the hardest. If I look back and ignore my nostalgia feelings and check the boss mechanics I have to say that SoO HC is the hardest content there was but only the last 3 bosses (and Blizzard admited a while ago that those are a little bit overtuned on purpose). Check what you have to check and take care of in those encounters and then compare it to old raid bosses.

[Bigbazz]

Yes, here it is

This is the exact chart I used to say that the subs grew and peaked around Cataclysm, and it has already been posted. Not only that but the subject of discussion has moved on a long way since then. So what exactly have you gained by reposting the exact same chart I'm talking about?

[Kickbuttmario]

Personally, I thought Black Temple was pretty hard, the tuning was pretty steep even if the mechanics were generally very easy. It was harder than current normal modes, which typically a lot of people have had trouble with (though less so in SOO I suppose) and the harder fights were comparable to some of the later hardmodes.

It wasn't tuned super hard of course (as sunwell was), but there were a lot of situations where a small mistake from one player would result in a wipe (ROS interupts, lol). And the fact that so many guilds were pushing 25man progress and getting stuck on Gorefiend means that for the general population he was hard. I remember my first real raiding guild and some of the guys just could not do the ghosts, and that resulted in wiping all day... and that was a common thing for a shitload of guilds.

I later joined a much higher ranked server first competitive guild and we cleared the whole of BT without wipes like it was nothing. Sure bosses are easy when you play with the best players, but those reprisent the vast minority, not a majority opinion. A lot of guilds hit a brick wall at Teron Gorefiend, even guilds that managed to beat Vashj/KT... which is completely crazy to me, since they were multiple times more difficult.

Yeah but Gorefiend was a very different encounter compared to them. It takes a lot of attempts before people get anything done on that raid.

[Xe4ro]

Personally, I thought Black Temple was pretty hard, the tuning was pretty steep even if the mechanics were generally very easy. It was harder than current normal modes, which typically a lot of people have had trouble with (though less so in SOO I suppose) and the harder fights were comparable to some of the later hardmodes.

It wasn't tuned super hard of course (as sunwell was), but there were a lot of situations where a small mistake from one player would result in a wipe (ROS interupts, lol). And the fact that so many guilds were pushing 25man progress and getting stuck on Gorefiend means that for the general population he was hard. I remember my first real raiding guild and some of the guys just could not do the ghosts, and that resulted in wiping all day... and that was a common thing for a shitload of guilds.

I later joined a much higher ranked server first competitive guild and we cleared the whole of BT without wipes like it was nothing. Sure bosses are easy when you play with the best players, but those reprisent the vast minority, not a majority opinion. A lot of guilds hit a brick wall at Teron Gorefiend, even guilds that managed to beat Vashj/KT... which is completely crazy to me, since they were multiple times more difficult.

Hmmm i don't know we killed Everything from Najentus to Teron on our first or second id in Black Temple (Shade of Akama was bugged out the hell and it was a lousily easy firstkill xD). Then we hit a small wall with Gurtog Bloodboil and a more bigger one with RoS (multiple p3 wipes......). Mother Sharaz was pretty easy and fell after 45min after the first pull without perfect shadow resi gear. (not enough mats , a lot of people wore green stuff with res). But to be honest , Council and Illidian were to pretty long fights and my personal feeling was that the rng with some of the not dogeable effects of some of the members on the Council made it the hardest boss fight. (After you were comfortable with Illidian the rng on Council could still fuck you up )

Also we weren't raiding BT the moment it got out , we got a little stuck on Vashj and then on Kael again after our MT/Raid leader was hacked and had to get his stuff back which cost us probably about 1-2 ids of raiding + we were a guild of , i guess 60% students , so sometimes we had to change our lineup around a lot.

But thats just my experience. By the way does anyone remembers the Teron Gorefiend flash game ?

[Thimagryn]

It's a shame we don't have charts for NA only or just having China separated so we can get a better idea of what the numbers are like here. I still think a majority of the spike is from China, and those numbers get so inflated. I think an NA only graph would look a lot more steady. It would still have a rise and drop no doubt, but not as drastic as the one we're seeing here.

[Vintersol]

By the way does anyone remembers the Teron Gorefiend flash game ?

http://www.variuse.de/feroxtgs2/

[wych]

Personally, I thought Black Temple was pretty hard, the tuning was pretty steep even if the mechanics were generally very easy. It was harder than current normal modes, which typically a lot of people have had trouble with (though less so in SOO I suppose) and the harder fights were comparable to some of the later hardmodes.

It wasn't tuned super hard of course (as sunwell was), but there were a lot of situations where a small mistake from one player would result in a wipe (ROS interupts, lol). And the fact that so many guilds were pushing 25man progress and getting stuck on Gorefiend means that for the general population he was hard. I remember my first real raiding guild and some of the guys just could not do the ghosts, and that resulted in wiping all day... and that was a common thing for a shitload of guilds.

I later joined a much higher ranked server first competitive guild and we cleared the whole of BT without wipes like it was nothing. Sure bosses are easy when you play with the best players, but those reprisent the vast minority, not a majority opinion. A lot of guilds hit a brick wall at Teron Gorefiend, even guilds that managed to beat Vashj/KT... which is completely crazy to me, since they were multiple times more difficult.

Remember the Teron Gorefiend online browser minigame?

My guild had people practicing it before we started in work/school.

I don't think BT was that difficult personally, most of the first half of the instance was faceroll, Bloodboil could be hard, RoS was by far the hardest, and council and Illidan weren't really large cockblocks.


Tbh I think Vashj, Kael and Archimonde were the hardest encounters in TBC (not including sunwell). My guild certainly spent way longer on them than any other

- - - Updated - - -

http://www.variuse.de/feroxtgs2/

Oh God yes it still exists

[Xe4ro]

http://www.variuse.de/feroxtgs2/

Haha yeah , thanks! That thing was awesome

Tbh I think Vashj, Kael and Archimonde were the hardest encounters in TBC (not including sunwell). My guild certainly spent way longer on them than any other

Hah yeah , Archimonde. Oh the fun with the tear. Had people training on the hill right after Azgalor. "Turn up with an insigna to the raid!!"