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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Templis View Post
    Raid attunements don't make sense in the current way that content is tiered.
    THIS!

    This is really the only reason I see the lack of a point with Attunements even though I like their existence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    ..and at that time under 500 000 raided. I was one of them and I loathed them because we constantly had to stop progressing and attune new raiders when old people quit for whatever reasons.

    Stop raising raids on the pedestal of the be all-end all. in Classic and TBC 95% of the subs never set a foot into them.
    But it made those who did raid a little special, even to those of us who didn't raid. I only ever did in to T5 in tbc and enjoyed talking to people who were in T6 and T6.5. It was something to aspire to achieving. Now it's not like that at all. Not even for new players I've talked to.

  2. #122
    I Liked the attuments of TBC. The problem was not the attunment. It was the content. Raid attunments made players fill epic for completing an epic quest line. The reward was entry into a raid. This made raiding more exclusive, but also epic. You earned your way into the raid. In TBC the attunments for BT was only a pain for 2 reasons. it required a skilled group of 25 to kill Vashj, and Kael'thas....and these bosses were hard. I look back on how many times I actually killed Kael'thas and Think it was less than 5-8. These bosses weren't farmed quite the way Sha of fear, or Lei'shen are/were. In with raiding content being more available I think attunment chains would have a good fit. In todays raiding environment It doesn't require 25 people to down a raid boss...and with the multiple raid difficulties the fights are not tuned necessary tuned for 25 very well geared players. Today's raiding environment would lend itself enough to make attunment quests not much of a hassel, but still maintain the fun and some minor exclusivity.

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  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreyen View Post
    Wouldn't call attuments necessary.. but they do give a great questline and a goal to aim for.. whereas now its just hit max level, farms heroics a bit.. then start raiding.
    While I think hard attunements of 'do every dungeon and scenario and then you can enter the raid! to enter the next raid! to enter the current raid with your friends! its fun! really!', are a completely outdated concept and a BAD IDEA...

    I think we could see more encouragement given to Soft Attunements. More Legendary quests that culminate in clearing a raid that provides rewards that are great when current, but maintain a certain level of desirability throughout the expansion. Tightening the itemlevel gap between tiers would go a far way towards this too. (note: NOT more legendaries... just flagging the quest as legendary so people know it will entail a lot more work then your average, go collect 10 boar butts quests)

  4. #124
    I have always agreed with Attunements.
    If they returned, I may return to Warcraft.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Mokoshne View Post
    Do not be so quick to judge your own experiences of guilds / team work in an expansion in the past as being universal experiences.
    What you speak of would be exceptions, not norms.

  6. #126
    Immortal Tharkkun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titheon View Post
    I have always agreed with Attunements.
    If they returned, I may return to Warcraft.
    Attunements were a crappy concept carried over from Everquest. Remember when the world 1st Vash kill dropped 4 vials? Yes 4. It was intended. 7 weeks to attune your raid. That's EQ style where 5 keys would drop off a boss of your 40-60 man raid.

    Blizzard fixed that shortly after.

  7. #127
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renisis86 View Post
    I Liked the attuments of TBC. The problem was not the attunment. It was the content. Raid attunments made players fill epic for completing an epic quest line. The reward was entry into a raid. This made raiding more exclusive, but also epic. You earned your way into the raid. In TBC the attunments for BT was only a pain for 2 reasons. it required a skilled group of 25 to kill Vashj, and Kael'thas....and these bosses were hard. I look back on how many times I actually killed Kael'thas and Think it was less than 5-8. These bosses weren't farmed quite the way Sha of fear, or Lei'shen are/were. In with raiding content being more available I think attunment chains would have a good fit. In todays raiding environment It doesn't require 25 people to down a raid boss...and with the multiple raid difficulties the fights are not tuned necessary tuned for 25 very well geared players. Today's raiding environment would lend itself enough to make attunment quests not much of a hassel, but still maintain the fun and some minor exclusivity.
    The problem here is that any idiot can complete a quest, none of the attunements were ever difficult. This meant that your raid team was more likely composed of players who had the time to complete the quests, rather than those who were actually sufficiently skilled to complete the content, as one is not a pre-requisite for the other as attunement proponents seem to believe and propogate as truth. And that is why so few players managed to set foot inside the raids. Those who had both skills and attunements simply got poached.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    The problem here is that any idiot can complete a quest, none of the attunements were ever difficult. This meant that your raid team was more likely composed of players who had the time to complete the quests, rather than those who were actually sufficiently skilled to complete the content, as one is not a pre-requisite for the other as attunement proponents seem to believe and propogate as truth. And that is why so few players managed to set foot inside the raids. Those who had both skills and attunements simply got poached.
    Not quite true. As far as I know you had to kill Kael'Thas before you could enter MH. This was a c*ckblock for many guilds.

    Or am I completely mistaken? I remember him as pretty hard to begin with.

    Z.

  9. #129
    Those quest were fun and had a lot of lore put into them. That's what made them good as quests, but as gating mechanic it was awful and all it did was screw up the whole system. I'd love to see that kind of quests come back to raids, but not the mandatory attunement part of them.

  10. #130
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhira View Post
    Not quite true. As far as I know you had to kill Kael'Thas before you could enter MH. This was a c*ckblock for many guilds.

    Or am I completely mistaken? I remember him as pretty hard to begin with.

    Z.
    And to enter TK you had to complete a whole bunch of long winded quests, which is my point: Completing the quests wasn't hard, it just cut the numbers of people available to access the raid, and those people were not filtered by ability but rather by time /played. If you're taking the people you can, instead of the people you need, of course you're going to find it significantly harder. And that is the position most guilds were in and that is why they found it a cockblock.

    Attunements do nothing to gate by ability, they never have and never will.

  11. #131
    In TBC I loved the Karazhan attunement. If they would do a questline like that again I would gladly welcome it. I like the idea of a silver medal requirement in a role for doing random HCs, but it'd be nice if raids had an introductory questline like Karazhan did, and the attunement could be account wide this time around.

  12. #132
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    i liked attunement, they felt like a milestone on character and story development.

  13. #133
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    All they did was make recruiting and holding on to members like pulling teeth for smaller and less progressed guilds.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by KOREAN DAVE View Post
    Attunements kept every raid in an expansion relevant in each content patch. And because of the necessity to clear harder content, this encouraged guild alliances and social interaction between guilds to get attunements and clear higher tired raids, leading to a stronger community bond.
    Attunements were bad.

    Been there, done that. Was in very hardcore guild in Classic + TBC and all of us hated attunements (alts being one reason)

  15. #135
    Scarab Lord Lilija's Avatar
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    You do realize we still have attunments? You need 1 person to have normal mode cleared to enter heroic. Now imagine instead of clearing certain difficulty level that 1 person would have to complete a chain quest. Makes sense lorewise that 1 key is enough to enter A guild still has incentive to go thru the process to attune enough people in order for all of them to raid without having to repeat it each time someone new joins.

    As for old content being relevant. I'm raiding constantly since Vanilla. Lead a guild thru half Vanilla, whole TBC, half WotLK and half Cata. I don't recall a single person that enjoyed going back to old content. Sure, guilds went back to attune people or for some BiS loot for certain classes yet absolutly noone liked it. People either refused to do or did it as a necessary evil. Why on earth make a mechanic that is a necessary evil? It didn't make the group stronger. In fact it was a drama waiting to happen and I believe there were many guilds that disbanded due to that exact reason. My guilds delt with that necessary evil without drama but still it was so obvious that everyone is just waiting for a way to skip going to old content or for the moment that we don't have to do it anymore (in Vanilla and TBC that moment never really came until they've removed attunments). People don't like old content - period. I don't really see people who came back mid MoP cheering for farming old raids for legendary cloak chain. It's by miles better than old times as they can do it on their own in LFR without dragging whole guild thru it. Yet still, I don't know a single person that have found this enjoyable. It's something they want to be done with asap. Hardly a challenge - much more a chore.

    Next to legendary quest chain there are other incentives to go back to old content. It's achievements, mounts, pets. I myself will be looking for a group to finish some old raid achievements when I have more free time during summer. What's most important tho that it's optional. Going back to old content in order to raid current content is a bad design on absolutly every level.

    So to summarize, I'm all for bringing attunments back but as a one time experience for a guild per content (in the way clearing normal nowadays opens heroic). Epic quest chain will be much more epic if you don't start to hate it after being forced into doing it for someone for the 50th time (oh prisson break! :P). Also, leave LFR out of it - the purpose of LFR is completly different. Plus LFR will not be in line of progression for heroic or mythic raids.
    Last edited by Lilija; 2014-05-08 at 01:02 PM.

  16. #136
    Scarab Lord Kickbuttmario's Avatar
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    Make it account bound or make it easier for alts to earn it once you completed it. Like the legendary quest line, its fun if done right.

  17. #137
    The Patient Merpish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    I'm not against an attunment system if it was specifically account-wide.
    Only way it could be done with the casual playerbase of the game these days.
    Everyone on the internet is a dishonest actor.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    I like attunements for the fact that it adds back story to the reason you're there. It adds meaning to you being in the raid instead of just showing up to the front door of the big bads lair looking for phat lootz.

    I also agree that it was difficult for guilds to recruit and keep current with content when having to wait for or carry people through the requisite attunement quests to even get them into the raid. If there was a solo quest chain for attunements, that would be fantastic. Having a quest that gives context for why and how we got inside a major stronghold to bring down the big bad would be very much welcome IMO, but only if it was account wide or something that you could do solo.
    The main reason I also liked attunements was for the story as well. They also wasnt in the form of a daily grind hub in order to see the story which I would absolutely hate. Aside from the Kara attunement which should have been done by anyone anyways due to it falling in line with someone gearing up their character I did the other attunements for the raids even after the attunement requirements was lifted. If I recall correctly the TK one gave an FR neck piece which was also useful for my FR warlock tank set and the BT attunement gave the SR neck piece which was also useful while being a cool quest chain.

    It is nice to bring some up to date relevance to why you are fighting in a raid especially given that raid stories have turned into a passerby mode and to me raids in general are the least effective in showing story and all the more so in a go go go mode where one doesnt have time to smell the flowers, listen to the narrative if there is one(Ulduar) or read the books on the floor. The chains IMO bring more value and immersion to the experience. Having five mans lead up to the raids is also nice.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheJewishMerp View Post
    Only way it could be done with the casual playerbase of the game these days.
    I find it interesting how having alts went from being a thing for no-lifers to an assumed right of "casuals". Largely though it comes from the reduced grinds making the game more casual for the person who has x amount of time to spend can progress on one character while those who previously did have enough time now have extra time and move on to becoming altohalics to counteract the boredom.
    Last edited by nekobaka; 2014-05-08 at 06:01 PM.

  19. #139
    Any attunement would have to be in either solo or LFD/LFR content otherwise it would a giant pain in the ass come the second tier.

    Any attunement that requires a lengthy quest chain would be a pain in the ass, especially with the way questing seems to be going in WoD.

    Proving grounds done right should be decent for unlocking LFD for heroics, assuming that they are difficult enough to warrant it, otherwise it's just a waste of time.

    Outside of that there's not a great deal where it would be relevant. It's only really computer assigned random groups that would need it, and LFR doesn't really make sense with attunements because it's supposed to be accessible rather than walled off.

    Any other content basically sets its own attunements because if people don't think you're capable of doing the content they simply won't invite you. (or set some ridiculous ilvl requirement)

    It is a nice idea from the point of view of getting people involved in particular storylines because they are relevant to the content that you are attuning to, but not everyone cares enough about the story to want to do that. Those who care about the story will follow what the attunement would have been anyway, those that don't will see it as another box they have to tick and won't get anything out of it.

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