Please blanket nerf and do not implement item upgrades.

[Didacticus Syntacticus]

yeah god forbid someone actually was competent and flexible between all their specs. We should all be one-trick-ponies and play one spec and never expand and get better at the game.

I like vp upgrades instead of a blanket nerf, but the guy has a point which is even worse for alts because his OS gear could be 2/4 by now, but starting off on an alt you basically have to be carried for 2 months before you can get up to speed on gear (just for one spec).

I don't know why anyone "has to be carried" simply by being in gear that was BiS yesterday, but no longer is as of today, even though the content itself is unchanged.

Under this logic, if this 4-spec druid spent months gearing up, then he must have been "carried" all of those months compared to someone who simply plays a single spec, because you can't gear 4 specs as quickly as you can gear a single spec, and by being less geared, he was gimping his raid group. Right?

Again it takes a peculiar mindset that exists only in WoW that sees opportunities as "requirements," anything other than "optimal" as "garbage," and anything other than "perfect" as "ruined."

[Deleted]

I HIGHLY doubt that.

Source for THAT number pls?


EXCUSE ME? RANKINGS? youre kidding right? the races are over.... and ofc it takes some time to upgrade all but THIS is excactly what blizzard wants to keep ppl playing!

Rankings refers to worldoflogs / warcraftlogs rankings. People really try their hardest to get rankings, and that whole system for top tier raiders is being wrecked. I agree, guild rankings aren't really relevant now.

12% comes from comparing simcraft data from top geared players in US / EU and top geared players in asia, who currently have the +8 ilvl they're proposing. 12% was the average number I came out with.

And yes, i have around 60 pieces of gear over 4 specs that will need upgrading at some point. Bear in mind, people who play 2 specs will still be in a dilemma over upgrades.

[Aboubacar]

I don't know why anyone "has to be carried" simply by being in gear that was BiS yesterday, but no longer is as of today, even though the content itself is unchanged.

Under this logic, if this 4-spec druid spent months gearing up, then he must have been "carried" all of those months compared to someone who simply plays a single spec, because you can't gear 4 specs as quickly as you can gear a single spec, and by being less geared, he was gimping his raid group. Right?

Again it takes a peculiar mindset that exists only in WoW that sees opportunities as "requirements," anything other than "optimal" as "garbage," and anything other than "perfect" as "ruined."

Sorry I picked the wrong words to describe someone that would be considerably behind the rest of the players w/ item upgrades (talking about a fresh 90 probably going through flex/normals)

The 4 spec druid thing was more about having your mainspec performance being considerably ahead of the offspecs for months until that gear is fully upgraded, it just feels bad and deters people from going OS heals, especially on heroic, especially if not all their healer pieces are upgraded already.

I understand people jump to dramatic phrases on forums like "slap in the face" "the game is dead" and that's precisely what I just did, so I apologize again.

[Deleted]

"This game really gets my OCD going, Blizz please fix the game because I am embarrassed to see my shrink again."

Enjoying playing my class to its full is not comparable to any mental disorders last time I checked.

[Abysal]

2 items per week for 64 items to upgrade means it will take 32 weeks for me to finish upgrading my gear. Thats around 7 months.

You won't need to upgrade 64 items. The 6.0 systems changes will be out long before December I'm sure of it. These changes make it so set bonuses and primary stats on armor will change based on spec. Ultimately, you'll need 1 helm, 1 shoulder, 1 cloak, 1 chest, 1 bracer, 1 glove, 1 belt, 1 pants, 1 boot, 2-4 necks (depending on if guardian/feral share and if resto/balance share) 4-8 rings (same reason) 2-4 weapons, and 4-8 trinkets. It might be a little more if you want to keep the spirit from your armor for resto, but it sounds like that much spirit won't be needed after the systems changes.

So that adds up to 21-33 items to upgrade, NOT 64.

It would be foolish to ignore the systems changes knowing that 6.0 is coming out before you finish upgrading.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/10703970357

I suggest you read that and adjust your item upgrade strategy accordingly.

What you should do:

1. Upgrade all your gear for your main spec.
2. Upgrade off spec jewelry and trinkets and weapons.
3. Start upgrading spirit armor for resto when 1 and 2 are done.

You'll find when 6.0 comes out (I'm guessing September-October at this point) that you'll be out of upgrades.

[Didacticus Syntacticus]

Rankings refers to worldoflogs / warcraftlogs rankings. People really try their hardest to get rankings, and that whole system for top tier raiders is being wrecked. I agree, guild rankings aren't really relevant now.

Why would anyone give a rat's ass about rankings on content that everyone except "garbage" guilds have had on farm since November?

[Aboubacar]

You won't need to upgrade 64 items. The 6.0 systems changes will be out long before December I'm sure of it. These changes make it so set bonuses and primary stats on armor will change based on spec. Ultimately, you'll need 1 helm, 1 shoulder, 1 cloak, 1 chest, 1 bracer, 1 glove, 1 belt, 1 pants, 1 boot, 2-4 necks (depending on if guardian/feral share and if resto/balance share) 4-8 rings (same reason) 2-4 weapons, and 4-8 trinkets. It might be a little more if you want to keep the spirit from your armor for resto, but it sounds like that much spirit won't be needed after the systems changes.

So that adds up to 21-33 items to upgrade, NOT 64.

It would be foolish to ignore the systems changes knowing that 6.0 is coming out before you finish upgrading.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/10703970357

I suggest you read that and adjust your item upgrade strategy accordingly.

No the primary stat swap thing only starts working w/ WoD gear. It doesn't swap tier set bonuses. It doesn't change trinkets, spirit rings, etc.

[Annarion]

...2 items per week for 64 items to upgrade means it will take 32 weeks for me to finish upgrading my gear. Thats around 7 months.

It's almost like they did it on purpose, to keep people interested in the same game for longer.

As an aside, if you want to end all your posts with your name, which I don't see why you would, since your name is printed at the left of each post, you can just add it to your signature instead of typing it out every time.

[Deleted]

This is purely a luxury problem and not a major concern.

"-OMG Blizzard my guild lets me collect gear for 4 specs, now I feel pressure to upgrade all 4! BOHOO"

You do realize how stupid that sounds?

[AeneasBK]

As a Druid I know what's it like to contribute with multiple specs. As a Resto main spec I generally healed through Thok with one tanking exception for Nazgrim cause we didn't need the number of healers we ran and my off spec is Guardian. After Thok I sat my Druid (who I no longer raid with and was 574/566 Resto/Guardian) to bring my Fury Warrior (~550 ilvl with gear I got on my own rather than taking from mains) as the raid utility a Fury Warrior brings > Feral/Balance Druid as we needed more people to cover the belt and had plenty of range/healers already. By the time we killed Siegecrafter my Warrior's ilvl was so much better than my Feral/Balance gear that there was no reason to go back to my Druid except for very very rare times when we simply lacked healers as I could still tank the Ironblades on Nazgrim as a Prot Warrior just as well as I could as a Guardian Druid.

So yeah, I personally see it silly to worry about maintaining that many gearsets on a single character when multiple characters and/or multiple people can do the same thing with less management.



Similar case as the person you mentioned: As a fairly casual 25 man guild we've been hurt pretty badly by attendance issues + swimming in Agility/Int DPS so I never got a great chance to build stuff for a Feral/Balance spec as I never got a chance at specific pieces of loot.

Either RNG shat on you or you've not been "casually" raiding SoO since September; attendance issues or not. Unless by attendance issues you mean "We've got through 2 rosters worth of players during this time". In which case you've had plenty of loot spare to gear up extra specs its just been going to "here today gone tomorrow" raiders.

We were sharding near every drop by about late November and we didn't kill Gary till January. We stopped raiding in March/April because we hit a wall on 25 HC Norushen and blizzard decided not to blanket nerf this time around so mots of us are unsubbed now waiting for WoD. We cleared 10/13 HC ICC, 8/8HC DS and remained subbed throughout all of those tiers. So in the case of my guild* they messed up this time around. These item upgrade "nerfs" are about 3 months too late.

*Pretty sure it goes for a lot of guilds out there; certainly its true of the 3-4 other raiding guilds on our server.

[AeneasBK]

Thats irrelevant. In my guild we have no rosterproblems that force us to have members change specs every week.

Then when you started raiding SoO is entirely relevant. Because if you haven't had to change your roster since September there is no way in hell you haven't had enough loot to spec every raiding toon in every spec available to them. The idea that a druid couldn't have full gear for all 4 specs 8 (!!) months after a tier has been out is a joke and makes you look as though you're talking nonsense and haven't even raided 25 man yet.

[Aboubacar]

This is purely a luxury problem and not a major concern.

"-OMG Blizzard my guild lets me collect gear for 4 specs, now I feel pressure to upgrade all 4! BOHOO"

You do realize how stupid that sounds?

I'm so glad I don't raid with a one-trick-pony like yourself that has no flexibility or ability to play anything other than the one spec he's played for 5 years.

[blackblade]

Even for people who play two specs, that will take roughly 3.5 months to upgrade. I know pure DPS players who have different gear sets. This also makes all current rankings on worldoflogs / warcraftlogs irrelivant and makes it a pretty unrewarding environment to rank in when every week the next wave of people have an advantage over you. The question is; why are people who've farmed the full instance enough to be BiS and have taken the effort to upgrade gear being punished because other people can't clear the instance?

I love players perception of "Punishment"

They're adding another tier! "How dare blizzard punish us for not completing the prior tier fast enough"
They're upping the maximum possible item level! "How dare blizzard punish us for being in BiS and forcing us to start upgrading again"

Logs are generally already irrlevant because *legasp* chinese players already have this ilvl advantage. Never mind the copious amount of gaming the top ranking players do to get everything to line up for their class and spec on a given attempt.

[Deleted]

Enjoying playing my class to its full is not comparable to any mental disorders last time I checked.

Indeed. The first (and pursuing it) is your own personal choice, the latter isn't.

[Deleted]

Logs are generally already irrlevant because *legasp* chinese players already have this ilvl advantage. Never mind the copious amount of gaming the top ranking players do to get everything to line up for their class and spec on a given attempt.

I love players perception of "Punishment"

Well, we have quite a few top 10 rankings in guild. Not for much longer

New tier = new start
Changes to same tier = slap in the face to players who've been working hard this tier.

[Deleted]

Then when you started raiding SoO is entirely relevant. Because if you haven't had to change your roster since September there is no way in hell you haven't had enough loot to spec every raiding toon in every spec available to them. The idea that a druid couldn't have full gear for all 4 specs 8 (!!) months after a tier has been out is a joke and makes you look as though you're talking nonsense and haven't even raided 25 man yet.

We started heroic progression in October, and in our guild the gear goes to people who need them or to the guildbank.
Surely I could gather 4 gearsets if I chose to, but that would just be unfair to the other raiders and Im not that selfish.

I'm so glad I don't raid with a one-trick-pony like yourself that has no flexibility or ability to play anything other than the one spec he's played for 5 years.

Has nothing to do with being a "one trick pony", and like I said I've been playing all 4 specs this expansion and 3 different this tier.
Theres no reason to be angry at Blizzard just because you choose to OCD gear every spec in the game, focus on your main/offspec.

[Trubo]

Rankings refers to worldoflogs / warcraftlogs rankings. People really try their hardest to get rankings, and that whole system for top tier raiders is being wrecked. I agree, guild rankings aren't really relevant now.

12% comes from comparing simcraft data from top geared players in US / EU and top geared players in asia, who currently have the +8 ilvl they're proposing. 12% was the average number I came out with.

And yes, i have around 60 pieces of gear over 4 specs that will need upgrading at some point. Bear in mind, people who play 2 specs will still be in a dilemma over upgrades.

Not really. Most people are rarely, if ever, asked to use their offspec for raid purposes. Props to you if you get do swap that often but the way I'm seeing it is you either got that gear at the cost of someone else's main or primary offspec or so late in the game that you're not going to rank, period.

Why would anyone give a rat's ass about rankings on content that everyone except "garbage" guilds have had on farm since November?

Big numbers look good?

Either RNG shat on you or you've not been "casually" raiding SoO since September; attendance issues or not. Unless by attendance issues you mean "We've got through 2 rosters worth of players during this time". In which case you've had plenty of loot spare to gear up extra specs its just been going to "here today gone tomorrow" raiders.

We were sharding near every drop by about late November and we didn't kill Gary till January. We stopped raiding in March/April because we hit a wall on 25 HC Norushen and blizzard decided not to blanket nerf this time around so mots of us are unsubbed now waiting for WoD. We cleared 10/13 HC ICC, 8/8HC DS and remained subbed throughout all of those tiers. So in the case of my guild* they messed up this time around. These item upgrade "nerfs" are about 3 months too late.

*Pretty sure it goes for a lot of guilds out there; certainly its true of the 3-4 other raiding guilds on our server.

First I guess we need to define what "casually raiding" means. To me that means 2-3 nights a week at 3 hour time intervals where we typically waste the first 15 minutes or so waiting for people to log in.

Second is that my guild has had some major stuff come up in the last 4 months: just off the top of my head 2 raiders have had children, 4 have had an important family member die or been in the hospital for a serious amount of time (i.e. broken arms and such), 1 had a record to promote and several have just burned out from progression or getting their Legendary cloak.

Third, very little of our gear, if any, has gone to a trial that wasn't just going to be DE-ed if they weren't present and yes, RNG is still pretty damn RNG. Just to name a few: we still have main caster DPS hurting for something better than the Flex Amp Trinket from Immerseus, 2 of our main healers still lack a Sha of Pride Amp trinket better than LFR, and our main Prot Paladin tank is still using the HTF Spark that he had from ToT to reach his Haste hard cap.

If we're going to bring up old content gear stuff I remember that in ICC only 3 Heroic Conq tokens dropped the entire time ICC was on farm (11/12 Heroic). In DS we saw 3 Vial of Shadows (Normal+Heroic), 2 Spirit+Mastery caster shared boss ring (Normal+Heroic)...and probably 20 or so of the shared boss tank trinket/ring drops.

And yes, I do agree that we've been sharding a lot of stuff. However, because we were very AGI heavy (about 1/3 of our raid consisted of Monks, Rogues and Hunters) I pretty much never got a chance at Agility gear I could equip while I was still on my Druid. That was the big reason for me switching to my Warrior for Heroic Siegecrafter progression.

We started heroic progression in October, and in our guild the gear goes to people who need them or to the guildbank.
Surely I could gather 4 gearsets if I chose to, but that would just be unfair to the other raiders and Im not that selfish.

Strongly agree with this. Just because I've had the chance to gear offspecs I'm very unlikely to use (via drops and coins) doesn't mean I'm either going to take gear from someone that does get a benefit from it or waste coins on an offspec that's never called upon.

[Shockzilla]

If Item upgrades are nerfs. What is gear upgrades then? Content is nerfed the entire expansion by people's logic.

You sir should stop making good points and go a long with all the haters.

[Squirl]

Player buffs rather than content nerfs make people feel better. It also makes it easier to justify keeping the FoS and Mount around for those still progressing, since the content was not overtly nerfed.

It will give us something to do (cap VP) for a little over a month. It'll take 8k to upgrade everything (500VP x 16 pieces), so with 4k the first week (3k banked + 1k for the week), it will take an additional 4 weeks to cap everything out. It's only going to take an hour or so to cap each week, but at least it's a reason to log in outside of raids.

I'm all for this:

• Something to do (cap VP)
• Even easier farm clears
• More time to sell carries

OP's case is an extreme outlier. Almost no one gears up all 3 specs, let alone all 4 druid specs. Most people have 1, maybe 2 specs that they care about. I also think OP is exaggerating how much gear he has and how often he actually uses his specs. With all completely separate gear, that's only 64 pieces and OP claims to have "60+". There is a lot of (or at least some) gear overlap between Feral and Guardian, and Balance and Restoration. Additionally, why is gear for both Feral and Boomkin desirable? They do almost the same damage and offer nearly the same utility. Balance is ranged (almost always at an advantage) while Feral is melee.

These changes are great. OP is just looking for something to complain about.

[Deleted]

At this point in the tier, majority of gear drops will be getting DEed anyways so you have no excuse except just being lazy. Unfair how? unfair by not letting your gbank become overflown with sha crystals and spirits of war? yeah okay pal, you keep telling yourself that and it might just become true one day.

Unfair to the other token/leather-users ofcourse, its got nothing to do with "excuses"

OP is trying to make a cock-farm out of a feather and is craving internet-attention.