Is Siege of Orgrimmar REALLY that hard?

[NickCageFanatic]

SoO will be really effin hard to do with 471 ilevel, I imagine you will be using your timeless gear more than you think. The reason I say this is because some classes perform horribly at 471 ilevel just based off seeing what people do during Challenge Modes (463 ilevel). The best classes will manage roughly 200k Burst AoE dps, and that's about as high as anyone will pull using nothing but 471 gear. Single target dps will be a shit show for all melee classes.

Normal mode shouldn't be too bad though. I honestly believe normal mode is the extent to which this test can work. 14/14 Heroic in 471 gear is not possible.

- - - Updated - - -

Dps bashing again?

Most hunters(Because that's what i play), do around 120-150k dps in Chall modes where your gear is scaled down to 463. (Not bis geared)

On AoE yes many classes can hit 120-150k on their AoE using all CDs and Hero/Lust. You're lying if you say you can pull that whenever you want on any boss.
In SSB the final boss (requiring very little movement if you are initially positioned correctly) popping everything the most I've seen bursting is 150k which gradually goes down to roughly 80k-90k (keep in mind that is over the course of 60-90 seconds). Dps would drop much more if the fight went on for another 3:30-4:00 minutes (I estimate 60-70k).

If you have 3-4 other dps with you that burst 100k+ with you then yes you're dps will be higher (probably 100k+) because the fight was over quicker, but you cannot pull 120k-150k just because you felt like it. Certain CDs and player skills need to match up in the group for you to do that.

The 2nd way to gimp the system (recount or skada) is to make a nice AoE pull to pad your numbers and pull the boss instantly w/o dropping combat that way all the damage you did from the trash gets carried over into the boss fight. That's how you see people running WR times pulling 200k+ on boss fights. They just don't drop combat from the trash packs, but they aren't really pulling 200k in 463 gear.

Sources: 9/9 Gold xp

[GwiGwi]

Like I said earlier and it's worth repeating, anyone who thinks they will even get close to 14/14 Normal with <496 ilvl is delusional and has no understanding of game mechanics.

[NickCageFanatic]

Like I said earlier and it's worth repeating, anyone who thinks they will even get close to 14/14 Normal with <496 ilvl is delusional and has no understanding of game mechanics.

Honestly I think it's possible, normal mode raids are always designed such that the normal gear from the previous tier is adequate to complete the normal mode of the current content instance. There are certain rare boss exceptions (ie. Horridon back in ToT was way overtuned) but for the most part if you are unable to complete SoO in 522-540 gear consisting of a legendary gem and cloak you have L2P issues not gear issues.

[PrairieChicken]

Honestly I think it's possible, normal mode raids are always designed such that the normal gear from the previous tier is adequate to complete the normal mode of the current content instance. There are certain rare boss exceptions (ie. Horridon back in ToT was way overtuned) but for the most part if you are unable to complete SoO in 522-540 gear consisting of a legendary gem and cloak you have L2P issues not gear issues.

522 is a totally different league from 496. It is another tier difference which is huge huge huge

[GwiGwi]

Honestly I think it's possible, normal mode raids are always designed such that the normal gear from the previous tier is adequate to complete the normal mode of the current content instance. There are certain rare boss exceptions (ie. Horridon back in ToT was way overtuned) but for the most part if you are unable to complete SoO in 522-540 gear consisting of a legendary gem and cloak you have L2P issues not gear issues.

Notice how I said <496 and not 522-540. They will not be able to get anywhere close to Garrosh with their current gear goals.

[PrairieChicken]

I don't know why people are even thinking about 14/14. Tanks will be shredded to pieces by first boss in 10 sec. Would love to see how fast healers go oom trying to heal someone geared 50+ ilvl lower than minimum.

496 might get you couple of bosses but 471 absolutely no way

[Wilderness]

Dps bashing again?

Most hunters(Because that's what i play), do around 120-150k dps in Chall modes where your gear is scaled down to 463. (Not bis geared)

150k sustained single-target dps? Not a chance.

Its great that you want to challenge yourself and see what can do with that gear, but even 100% perfect play can only get so much out of that gear, and its not going to be enough for normal SoO at all. I'd be surprised if you managed to kill a boss with your timeless sets.

Honestly I think it's possible, normal mode raids are always designed such that the normal gear from the previous tier is adequate to complete the normal mode of the current content instance. There are certain rare boss exceptions (ie. Horridon back in ToT was way overtuned) but for the most part if you are unable to complete SoO in 522-540 gear consisting of a legendary gem and cloak you have L2P issues not gear issues.

496 isn't the previous normal mode gear though; 522 with legendary gem/cloak is a far cry from even the timeless isle set. What they are going to attempt is very different, and I don't believe its doable at all - maybe they can get a boss or two down in 496 but I'd be very surprised.

[britishbubba]

Have fun with Malkorok and Thokk. The lack of DPS for Malkorok and lack of health for Thokk.

Implying they'll even make it to malk

Dps bashing again?

Most hunters(Because that's what i play), do around 120-150k dps in Chall modes where your gear is scaled down to 463. (Not bis geared)

Not sustained single target they don't.

Honestly I think it's possible, normal mode raids are always designed such that the normal gear from the previous tier is adequate to complete the normal mode of the current content instance. There are certain rare boss exceptions (ie. Horridon back in ToT was way overtuned) but for the most part if you are unable to complete SoO in 522-540 gear consisting of a legendary gem and cloak you have L2P issues not gear issues.

25m normal norushen has 1.1B hp and a 7 minute enrage. Assuming 2 tanks, 5 heals (if heals can even keep their mana up for 7 minutes at that ilvl) and 18 dps and a required raid dps of ~2.6M you need everyone to be pulling 120k+ single target sustained over 7 minutes just to meet the enrage.

I don't get how anyone could think a group of 471 people can do that. Even if you ignore the dps requirement, the healing requirement is going to be absurd.

[xtramuscle]

Implying they'll even make it to malk



Not sustained single target they don't.

Whilst I'm signed and looking forward to trying this, you've got to remember BIS CM gear while scaled to 463 is still nothing like 463 gear. My Monk has 25 sockets in CM gear, I'm looking at about 10 sockets in 471 gear. That's about 4500 less secondary stats TO BEGIN WITH.

[Swankyy]

don't think you will succeed very far. but interesting concept. good luck anyways

[Mhyroth]

Sorry to burst people's bubble, it's not possible in 471 gear. DPS/HPS checks are in no way possible to reach. Even in Full BiS CHallenge Mode gear and playing in Method you won't get past Malkorok, without abusing Vengeance with using 5 tanks or anything which abuses Vengeance in some way.
Better do Throne of Thunder OR do Siege Flex/LFR in 471 or Timeless Isle gear.
Spare people the shame and time to even try.. Better use your time to go outside (the weather is nice summertime is inc !) and work out or something.
If you succeed to kill Garrosh on NORMAL mode in 10 man, I'm personally transferring my guildbank to Kazzak and give you 1 million gold and a Swift Spectral Tiger mount. You've seen it here, and MMO champ is my evidence.

[xtramuscle]

Snip
If you succeed to kill Garrosh on NORMAL mode in 10 man, I'm personally transferring my guildbank to Kazzak and give you 1 million gold and a Swift Spectral Tiger mount. You've seen it here, and MMO champ is my evidence.

But I'm not on Kazzak :'(

[NickCageFanatic]

If you succeed to kill Garrosh on NORMAL mode in 10 man, I'm personally transferring my guildbank to Kazzak and give you 1 million gold and a Swift Spectral Tiger mount. You've seen it here, and MMO champ is my evidence.

I just thought I'd quote that to keep the evidence.

After an entire day of thinking about it and looking at some dps charts from about 2 years ago I can 100% take back what I said earlier about the plausibility of clearing 14/14 Normal in 471 iLevel.

The OP says that they will use timeless 496 gear as a backup and to be honest they will most likely have to revert to that gear just to down the first boss.

[xenogear3]

If you can clear 14/14 normal with 471 ilevel, I will stop trolling all WoW message board

I will troll widestar, rift and swtor message board instead

[Sillychan]

This is really cool. I recently did a 2-healing of a normal SoO run at roughly 520 ilvl. It was certainly not easy, the other healer was a bit more geared. It was surprising how much more aware I had to be, raid damage on it's own was immensely more threatening just with my lower health pool.

Look forward to cheering you on!

[thebbandit]

Lol man, looking through your stream VODs you can tell this is just an attempt for attention. Lets get real, go download simcraft and do the breakdown of average dps for 471 gear. The simcraft for my fresh 90 with 496 ilvl timeless isle gear will pull out 70k dps TOPS. where are you pulling this 150k dps number from?

[Deleted]

Lol man, looking through your stream VODs you can tell this is just an attempt for attention. Lets get real, go download simcraft and do the breakdown of average dps for 471 gear. The simcraft for my fresh 90 with 496 ilvl timeless isle gear will pull out 70k dps TOPS. where are you pulling this 150k dps number from?

AoE and CDs in dungeons

[pkm]

This is gonna be juicy to watch. Cant wait for the rage.

[xenogear3]

I am glad we have twitch.

The message board is full with "LoL, I do 200k dps with green gear. L2P" and "My 'casual' guild clear heroic SoO in 2 hours."

[announced]

the fact that u guys have already cleared 14/14h doesnt make this challenging enough. its a nice thought to try and beat the raid in only 471 gear. or 496 if u wear full timeless. by the way which is it? cause 471 is a big difference from proper reforges and gemming on 496 ilvl. (25 ilvl difference)

theres pretty much no enrage timers for normal so i dont see this being a problem. kite the garrosh adds to hell and back if u want. doesnt matter anyway

now if it was heroics using crappy gear like timeless shit on a full clear then it'd be entertaining.