Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[quras]

I just re-subbed after 4 years because I also think it will be awesome

I cancelled after nearly 11 years because I think it will suck.

I've seen the no flying content blizzard has cooked up. Vanilla travel sucked and TI style content wasn't good any of the times blizzard tried to push it into the game. No way I would support it now given blizzards "we don't know what the "F" we are going to do stance so we'll just see what gamers do. So just wait and see."

Blizzard can't be decisive on flying and they want me to believe they can fix other game issues? I doubt it at this point.

[Osmeric]

and flying is a max level perk for everyone so that after 10 levels,

Class-defining ability != class-independent perk.

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I cancelled after nearly 11 years because I think it will suck.

Well, bye! Don't let the hangar door hit your tailfins on the way out.

I hope you have fun in another MMO that thinks flying like WoW's is a good idea. Here's a list of ones you might look at:

[Keile]

In every single expansion in the history of the game you have been able to fly at max level, as soon as you purchased the skill and/or license?

Yes or No?

So basically because they have done it in the past means they cannot deviate from that? That's pretty closed minded, but at the same time change is scary to most people.

[Nayaga]

WoW is not specifically designed in such a way that if your quest tells you to kill 8 kobolds, you will only have to kill 8 kobolds and absolutely nothing else. Sometimes you can, sometimes you have to fight additional mobs. Big fucking deal IMO.

Almost no one is asking for flight while leveling.

If you hate it so much, just don't do the endgame outdoor content. Queue for dungeons and raids as you sit on your flying mount in SW and Org. You don't HAVE to do it, any more than you had to do IoT or TI.

Some people will hate no flying and end up sitting in SW and Org. Garrisons will also push people out of the world.

Blizzard is designing Draenor to be not only a leveling zone (which are almost always no-fly) but also an endgame outdoor content zone (which are always no-fly) so it just makes sense to make the whole thing no-fly, at least so long as the content remains relevant. They think that zones like TI and IoT and Molten Front and TB Peninsula and Isle of QD are better if you can't fly. If you don't agree, that's cool, they're not mandatory. If you're really that mad over something so trivial go ahead and quit.

Flying might be trivial to you, but not everyone. Not everyone plays the game the same way as you.

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People like me have nothing to do with the truth being told by Blizzard.

Every expansion they do a debrief that talks about what went right and what didn't. They have even stated that dailies 'felt too mandatory' which was not their intent. That doesn't do anything to negate the brick wall and lost revenue they had as a result during the process of figuring it out.

They do listen to their community. The problem here is they need to listen before the shit hits the fan and not after.

Unless the shit hits the fan (large subscription loss), Blizzard will continue on with their plans and goals.

[Sweetpeaz]

So basically because they have done it in the past means they cannot deviate from that? That's pretty closed minded, but at the same time change is scary to most people.

There is another phrase 'Don't break what isn't broken' which also applies.

If flying was so bad in TBC, WotLK, Cata, and MOP, tell me what happened to make it so? Did they lose subs because of it? Was the world not designed for it?

Yes change can be scary, but change for the sake of change is also stupid.

[Keile]

There is another phrase 'Don't break what isn't broken' which also applies.

If flying was so bad in TBC, WotLK, Cata, and MOP, tell me what happened to make it so? Did they lose subs because of it? Was the world not designed for it?

Yes change can be scary, but change for the sake of change is also stupid.

You mean "Don't fix what isn't broken".

Anyway, that phrase doesn't really apply here. They are not trying to fix anything, they are just doing something different and they haven't clearly said that we will never get it.

[Stellan]

Well, guess it's matter of perspective.

Looking at Pandaria zones, I can quite freely move around without having anything hanging on my ass.

I would hope so. I can't imagine anything more annoying than encountering hostile mobs where ever I go once I've leveled a toon.

[quras]

Class-defining ability != class-independent perk.

Skipping content = skipping content

Doesn't matter how you do it.

Well, bye! Don't let the hangar door hit your tailfins on the way out.

I don't plan on it. Still got way to many people to talk to about this no flying thing.

I hope you have fun in another MMO that thinks flying like WoW's is a good idea. Here's a list of ones you might look at:

Well lets see. If I take any MMo game ever created and remove their best travel mechanic it has be it ground, teleport, flying ETC... I would expect some back lash.

It would be like LOTRO removing horses and saying, "hey, they also ran nearly everywhere so thats better.
Or DCUO removing flying saying, "oh because you can skip content we removed it."

Or any other game you want to come up with. You will generate negativity when you remove a staple travel mechanic the game has had for every expansion ever created for that game.

If it gets you through the theme park faster and gets players to the "rides" where the enjoyment is, its for the better. Saying we need to trudge though worthless garbage at max level so blizzard can push through more TI style content is PR bullshit and not worth supporting.

All players will skip content in every way they can, flying just made it ever across the board.

I would hope so. I can't imagine anything more annoying than encountering hostile mobs where ever I go once I've leveled a toon.

Worse than that, can you imagine having to run back to your garrison in the starter zone and being level 100 and consistently dismounted by worthless level level 91 mobs with blizzard new and amazing dismount mechanic. You know, the world is more dangerous and all that fluff.

[Sweetpeaz]

You mean "Don't fix what isn't broken".

Anyway, that phrase doesn't really apply here. They are not trying to fix anything, they are just doing something different and they haven't clearly said that we will never get it.

No..I know that phrase too. But I specifically said 'break' because that is what they are doing here. :-) They aren't fixing any problem that I see, that is why I'd like to understand what it broke in the previous expansions that caused something on the bottom line to be affected.

[Keile]

No..I know that phrase too. But I specifically said 'break' because that is what they are doing here. :-) They aren't fixing any problem that I see, that is why I'd like to understand what it broke in the previous expansions that caused something on the bottom line to be affected.

But they aren't breaking anything either. So your little turn of phrase doesn't apply. They are doing something different...that is all. They are trying to bring back the exploration that vanished since Cata. The problem with flying was that people just skipped EVERYTHING. And, whether your admit it or not, it was a problem. They would spend all this time designing a zone and only a small percentage would actually stop and LOOK at stuff. See people get obsessed with simply doing things the quickest way...and completely ignore the beauty of the world that was made for the game. It felt more like a rush to level rather than an experience. They are trying to bring back that vanilla feeling (you know, that time of the game that a lot of people hold up on a pedestal...)

You need to put yourself in their shoes for a moment: they work hard and want you do actually see what they made, just like any other artist would.

[khalltusk]

Meh, while it sucks not to fly in the max level areas. Wind riders will let me AFK to my destination still! only thing that will suck will be my profession grinding/farming for materials.

Rest assured if blizzard sees enough backlash over this (be it falling subs immense QQ etc) then changes will be made if that is the case.

[Keile]

Meh, while it sucks not to fly in the max level areas. Wind riders will let me AFK to my destination still! only thing that will suck will be my profession grinding/farming for materials.

Rest assured if blizzard sees enough backlash over this (be it falling subs immense QQ etc) then changes will be made if that is the case.

Professions are the ONLY negative I see to the removal of flying, and also a reason I believe they will deliver on that "maybe" of adding it in 6.1

[Nayaga]

You mean "Don't fix what isn't broken".

Anyway, that phrase doesn't really apply here. They are not trying to fix anything, they are just doing something different and they haven't clearly said that we will never get it.

No, Blizzard does think flying has broken the game. Here is what they've said: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...6539?page=5#82

It is not a matter of "doing something different"

[Keile]

No, Blizzard does think flying has broken the game. Here is what they've said: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...6539?page=5#82

It is not a matter of "doing something different"

And from their perspective it has. And from their perspective they are 100% correct.

Leveling had degraded into simply fly to target...kill target....fly to next target. All the immersion, all the exploration of the game they WORKED HARD TO CREATE was gone. It got to a point where the zones may as well have been a linear straight hallway of quests.

Now let's look at tBC and WoTLK (pre-heirloom flight book). Leveling was a lot more immersive, and you felt like a more solid part of the world. You had to travel by foot and got to see the world, and all the little details they worked so hard to put in.

Now I am not advocating 100% never flying, I am advocating no flying until X period of time (likely 6.1) so that people at least don't feel obligated to rush through leveling as efficiently as possible and actually take their time to make leveling less of a means to an end, and more of an experience.

[Nayaga]

But they aren't breaking anything either. So your little turn of phrase doesn't apply. They are doing something different...that is all. They are trying to bring back the exploration that vanished since Cata. The problem with flying was that people just skipped EVERYTHING. And, whether your admit it or not, it was a problem. They would spend all this time designing a zone and only a small percentage would actually stop and LOOK at stuff. See people get obsessed with simply doing things the quickest way...and completely ignore the beauty of the world that was made for the game. It felt more like a rush to level rather than an experience. They are trying to bring back that vanilla feeling (you know, that time of the game that a lot of people hold up on a pedestal...)

You need to put yourself in their shoes for a moment: they work hard and want you do actually see what they made, just like any other artist would.

Almost everyone is fine with no flying while level. Once we are level capped and zones cleared we have consumed the content Blizzard worked so hard on.

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Now I am not advocating 100% never flying, I am advocating no flying until X period of time (likely 6.1) so that people at least don't feel obligated to rush through leveling as efficiently as possible and actually take their time to make leveling less of a means to an end, and more of an experience.

Almost no one would have a problem with 6.1. It's what Bashiok originally promised us.

[Trork]

I cancelled after nearly 11 years because I think it will suck.

While having recently re-subbed, keep in mind I did not see cata or MoP, I am actually having fun leveling on the ground mount in MoP.

I had fun in Vanilla as well, all the PvP on ground mounts, etc... sure, getting ganked sucked in tarren mill/south shore, but it was fun PvP...

I think the flying mounts took a bit of the fun away, and just made the game easier or more convenient.

But don't get me wrong, I also like the convenience, so after I have seen all the content, I would like to fly as well, and I am sure we will be able to do so at some point (like the guy above says, probably at 6.1)

[Keile]

Almost everyone is fine with no flying while level. Once we are level capped and zones cleared we have consumed the content Blizzard worked so hard on.

And I am 99.99999999999% certain they will add in flying at max level. People just need to relax a bit.

[Barkloud]

But they aren't breaking anything either. So your little turn of phrase doesn't apply. They are doing something different...that is all. They are trying to bring back the exploration that vanished since Cata. The problem with flying was that people just skipped EVERYTHING. And, whether your admit it or not, it was a problem. They would spend all this time designing a zone and only a small percentage would actually stop and LOOK at stuff. See people get obsessed with simply doing things the quickest way...and completely ignore the beauty of the world that was made for the game. It felt more like a rush to level rather than an experience. They are trying to bring back that vanilla feeling (you know, that time of the game that a lot of people hold up on a pedestal...)

You need to put yourself in their shoes for a moment: they work hard and want you do actually see what they made, just like any other artist would.

So people were skipping the content they felt was crappy and not worth their time. So now forcing them to do that crappy content is going to do what exactly? Is it going to make them happy that they have to now do content they hate?

People generally do not like open world questing outside of leveling. Blizzard wants lots of open world end game stuff because it is cheap to program. They need to be careful about forcing their players to participate in shallow worthless mediocre useless open world content.

If I am going to do open world content it is going to be in a game that is more engaging, where combat is a little more involved than tab and spam button 1

[Nayaga]

And I am 99.99999999999% certain they will add in flying at max level. People just need to relax a bit.

I put it at about 20% chance that flying is added to WoD, but we are both just guessing. IMO, Blizzard will only add flight to WoD if they experience a large subscription loss, which I deem unlikely.

[Keile]

So people were skipping the content they felt was crappy and not worth their time. So now forcing them to do that crappy content is going to do what exactly? Is it going to make them happy that they have to now do content they hate?

People generally do not like open world questing outside of leveling. Blizzard wants lots of open world end game stuff because it is cheap to program. They need to be careful about forcing their players to participate in shallow worthless mediocre useless open world content.

If I am going to do open world content it is going to be in a game that is more engaging, where combat is a little more involved than tab and spam button 1

And this exact attitude is why they are removing flight. You basically just want to go from A to B without anything in between. And the whole "crappy content" is 100% subjective opinion.

And "people generally do not like open world questing" bit....where are you getting your statistics from? Or are you just using your own opinion and applying it to more people?

I put it at about 20% chance that flying is added to WoD, but we are both just guessing. IMO, Blizzard will only add flight to WoD if they experience a large subscription loss, which I deem unlikely.

I expect it to be similar to WoTLK with the Heirloom Flight book that was added in later on to allow level 68 alts to fly in Northrend. Originally you HAD to be level 80 to fly in Northrend and then they added in that heirloom book (which is now just simply flight training available to all characters) later on because of demand.