Rant Time Again! Why Bro Gamers Ruin Gaming (Warning: Big Wall of Text Incoming)

[Sarcon]

But it comes off like an IRONIC arrogance. Like Darth Clark from Game Informer on his April Fools thing. It's satire the same way as Colbert Report or Daily Show.

If that were true then he wouldn't actually believe the rhetoric he's spouting. It would be all just for the lols.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I read it.

And you know, it came close to being a thought-provoking read because I think you do make several good points. But when you pull statistics out of your ass in order to bolster your argument/seemed more informed than you actually are, you tend to put sensible people in eyeroll mode. Meaning stuff like the '80% of all gamers are bro gamers' comment.

http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1017784...alue-of-Player

The marketing professionals say otherwise.

[Jester Joe]

I agree "bro gamers" are terrible, but I also agree with others that you're over exaggerating a lot.
There's still long games with build ups to massive plots (Tales of Xillia comes to mind), there's still hard games, there's still everything. Yes, some people are aiming for the common denominator perhaps, but it doesn't mean they're ruining video games.

That's uh...about all I got.

http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1017784...alue-of-Player

The marketing professionals say otherwise.

Needs a sign in to view? Also is that even an market professional site? Looks more like a site about video game developers and what not?

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Working link: http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1017784...alue-of-Player

[Xisa]

Teenagers are, and always will be, annoying twats. It's part of the age: You have kids old enough to have the self-awareness that makes you think you are knowledgeable, but aren't actually old enough to have the requisite experience to know what you're talking about. They have to fall back on assumption, because they have no practical knowledge or experience.

There are few to no exceptions to this rule. It's just part of growing up.

[chazus]

I'm watching the video now. I wasn't able to attend the 2013 GDC, however one of our developers (and my brother) did. I'll ask him about it while I watch that.

Also, making your argument "Watch this hour long video" isn't very persuasive.

[Jester Joe]

Working link: http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1017784...alue-of-Player

It is working, but... 1 hour.
Erm....yeah. The only thing I have to really point out is it seems like it's only from 2-3 companies? WB Games is one I see there mentioned, so it's not an ideal held by all companies like I said, you just need to find the games.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Here's from my reply to Chazus

...Skip to the marketing breakdown on the two types of gamers who purchase video games...

Star at "Today's Roadmap"

[crakerjack]

You really should have put a TL;DR into this... I'm not investing my time to read a long rant that I can only assume is a giant complaint about middle school gamers.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

It wasn't about middle school gamers.

[Xisa]

It wasn't about middle school gamers.

No, your rant was about people that can't play video games as a second job having the nerve to exist. People like you are every bit as annoying as those you are lashing out against.

[Mirishka]

http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1017784...alue-of-Player

The marketing professionals say otherwise.

Familiar with the concept of sample size? I don't think you are, so let me explain it. Lets say that Time.com puts up a poll. "Do you trust Obama?"

6000 people click yes, 4000 people click no. Meaning that out of the 8 billion or so people on Earth, 10,000 of them either saw it or gave enough of a shit to click one or the other.

Next thing you know - "40% of americans distrust Obama" is their headline.

So... 4000 people somehow auto-represent the interests and opinions of hundreds of millions? No, they actually don't. But "40% of americans distrust Obama" sounds a lot better and a lot more discussion-worthy than '4000 people don't trust Obama'.

The bottom line is this - your post is a whiny, elitist rant wrapped in false pretense about how people who aren't like you are ruining your precious hobby. Except it isn't just yours. And playing COD on hard doesn't make you any more significant or special than the guy down the street who plays it on easy. As I said in my first reply to this topic: you aren't saving lives. You're sitting on your ass pushing buttons and clicking.

[Nemah]

Teenagers are, and always will be, annoying twats.

So are millenials for the most part, who are a prominent target of the newest manifestation of game design, i.e. everyone gets a trophy.

[Shocktroop]

I actually went back and read the entire post.

As a gamer of nearly 25+ years, a lot of what you said was either misguided, or flat out false.

As a game developer and designer for nearly 4 now, a lot of what you said was also misguided, or flat out false.

It just sounds like you're upset over the way WoW is going, and wanted to blame someone (in this case 'bro gamers'. For the record, the common idea of 'bro gamers' is very different from what you described. What you describe is someone with a busy life. You know, fathers, mothers, etc).

Everyone else pretty much summed it up. Therese a lot of elitism, arrogance, and just misinformation. Sorry. =/

Not at all, but I am sure you can prove him wrong with your award winning game that was completely original. Does not sound like he is talking just about WoW, unless you think WoW has souls that are used as currency that drop on death.

Good post OP.

[Vargas]

Familiar with the concept of sample size? I don't think you are, so let me explain it. Lets say that Time.com puts up a poll. "Do you trust Obama?"

6000 people click yes, 4000 people click no. Meaning that out of the 8 billion or so people on Earth, 10,000 of them either saw it or gave enough of a shit to click one or the other.

Next thing you know - "40% of americans distrust Obama" is their headline.

So... 4000 people somehow auto-represent the interests and opinions of hundreds of millions? No, they actually don't. But "40% of americans distrust Obama" sounds a lot better and a lot more discussion-worthy than '4000 people don't trust Obama'.

The bottom line is this - your post is a whiny, elitist rant wrapped in false pretense about how people who aren't like you are ruining your precious hobby. Except it isn't just yours. And playing COD on hard doesn't make you any more significant or special than the guy down the street who plays it on easy. As I said in my first reply to this topic: you aren't saving lives. You're sitting on your ass pushing buttons and clicking.

I wish the snowflake raiding population of this forum would read that and take it to heart.

[Chelly]

Bro gamers make up 80% of all gamers.

Source?

What happens when you give in? CoD. CoD was great. It had skill. There was a time when you played CoD for a highly realistic, skill based WWII simulation. Now all it is a game of "Who can aim their target reticle the fastest".

Haha what? It's never been a realistic WW2 simulator.

[Deleted]

I probably couldn't disagree less on a lot of those points, and honestly I find it pitiful that someone thinks they know better on what others should enjoy or even what is best for the industry. Even to mention that one somehow knows their very thoughts and habits and then smear them with it, is such a low blow that I could puke for such arrogance.

I also find it extremely enjoyable every time people point me to the past of videogames and how beautiful and perfect it was. To which I said; going through a forest observing and noticing every tree is a hard task but once outside the forest overviewing it all the tallest and most beautiful trees are more easily spotted and the shrubbery and smaller trees are overshadowed.

Unfortunately I also have to disagree that there are some developers and publishers that do cater to "bro gamers" and indeed do water down their content to satisfy these people. That does sometimes hurt existing and developed franchises and I do find that infuriating, however I do not weep over spilled milk. To many times have I seen people weep and cry because their beloved toy isn't the same as it was the last time, it is pitiful that people can even associate themselves so deeply in a piece of entertainment.
Which lead to the last point. Did people really think that games would be this glorious piece of entertainment that wouldn't be tainted by the mainstreams watering down to fill all shoes? Sorry but there are so many excellent made games that have more depth than people even give them credit for, even some of these "bro games" have more depth than all those decade old RPGs and what not, that people are too blinded by sheer hatred and pitifulness because their "hardcore" spirit is somehow offended by their existence, then don't fucking play them. What an amazing world where there is games for everybody, but no, the "hardcore gamers" gets to decide what is deep and what is a good game.
May I remember people that ten-fifteen years ago, the amount of games released was far less. Odds are that games of their caliber (granted most of them were shit back then as well), is being released at the same pace, and these days we just see a lot of game of a different caliber (the ones that apparently "kills" the videogame industry)

Urgh... Sometimes I just feel like using the word entitled gamers but today won't be that day.

[Biggles Worth]

I read it.

And you know, it could have been a a thought-provoking read because I think you do make a couple of good points. But when you pull statistics out of your ass in order to bolster your argument/seemed more informed than you actually are, you tend to put sensible people in eyeroll mode. Meaning stuff like the '80% of all gamers are bro gamers' comment.

Really? So of the hundreds of millions of people who play video games, you've went around and polled them and discovered that for every 5, 4 of them are lazy 'bros' who want spoonfed easymode? Wait, no you didn't do that? Then how exactly are you qualified to make that analysis?

Easy answer: you aren't.

Yes, some of the stuff you mentioned are things which are actually happening in the gaming market. But its just a little obnoxious when people like you declare anything that doesn't cater to their specific tastes to be a terrible and unjust thing.

Me for example, I generally dislike 'jprgs' like Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest. Generally speaking I don't care for FP games (though some, like Bioshock, are excellent) and frankly I hate MMOs as a rule (WoW being the exception).

But the difference between people like you and me, I think, is that I understand that those are *my* preferences. I respect that there are people who LOVE Final Fantasy with the kind of passion that could set fire to a couch. I understand that, at least until recently, FPS games were a HUGELY popular genre. I understand that the MMO is a genre of gaming that is never, ever going away.

Similarly I don't sit around getting mad about the way other people want to play their games, or whining that they want it easy while 'real gamers' play hard games in hardmode. I don't sit around making topics like this one pulling numbers out of my ass to seem like I've got some understanding that I don't actually have. You don't know if 80%, 5%, 12% or 66.6% of gamers fit the criteria you describe.

Nor should you care. We're fucking playing video games. This is not some badge of honor against which your life will be measured. It doesn't make you more of a badass to play Bioshock 2 in Hard difficulty than some other gamer who plays it in normal. You aren't saving lives, you aren't putting out fires. You aren't solving real-world problems. You're sitting on your ass, clicking a mouse or mashing your ABXYLR buttons.

Seriously, find some shit that MATTERS to be so hung up about. Drop annoying walls of text about stuff with actual, honest-to-God significance... like starving children. Putting an end to racism and bullying and intolerance. Equal rights.

In short: go get some sun and worry more about yourself, and a whole hell of a lot less about other people.

Pretty sure I just heard Jesus say amen to that.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

You need to watch this: http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1017784...alue-of-Player

Skip to the marketing breakdown on the two types of gamers who purchase video games.

For all the "Bro Gamer 80% Figure is False" people.

[chazus]

Alright, I watched that one part.

First, from the video, it's 65%, not 80%. You're just flat out lying, assuming you were pulling that data from the video.

Second, you misunderstood the video (which is where I think you're attempting to make a case from).

The "Bro Gamer" they refer to are people who don't have a lot of time to commit to games, and want to have a fun experience quickly, and easily. Usually winning equates to fun, most of the time. This has nothing to do with CoD, kids, or whiny highschoolers. You pretty much just made that part up.

All I really got from watching that is that you misinterpreted some useful information on marketing.