Social Degeneration

[Realsykes]

Uhm, no?

There's always going to be some sort of problem that we as a society will face from day to day, but I'd rather take an anti-social person over a violently aggressive racist on a bus any day.

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So black people only wanting to hang out with other black people makes them racist? Or is that different because reasons? Or how about white people that prefer hanging out with black people and not other white people? Is that somehow different because reasons?

Oh, your statement is just arbitrary and silly.

Does it also mean that a guy that prefers to hang out with groups of other guys, and not groups of girls, is sexist? (that said, as a guy, I would probably prefer to hang out with girls myself, but either way the same question occurs)

It's the idea behind it, you're looking at it on the surface level. WHY do they want to ONLY hang out with *insert race*? because they're what, funnier, more relate able, etc? So now, you're putting them on a higher pedestal, if even slightly, above the others races, which in turn makes everyone else, slightly inferior. You may not see it that way, which is fine because it might be so negligible as to the size, but it's there, and when it's there, it's the definition of racism towards everyone else. Book definition, you are. Yes, it sucks, but you fit the description if youre doing it.

[Spectral]

So black people only wanting to hang out with other black people makes them racist?

Yeah, sounds pretty racist.

Or how about white people that prefer hanging out with black people and not other white people? Is that somehow different because reasons?

Yeah, sounds pretty racist.

Does it also mean that a guy that prefers to hang out with groups of other guys, and not groups of girls, is sexist? (that said, as a guy, I would probably prefer to hang out with girls myself, but either way the same question occurs)

No. There are actual differences between genders, all else held equal, that could be considered socially relevant. I can't see anything similar in races.

[spinner981]

It's the idea behind it, you're looking at it on the surface level. WHY do they want to ONLY hang out with *insert race*? because they're what, funnier, more relate able, etc? So now, you're putting them on a higher pedestal, if even slightly, above the others races, which in turn makes everyone else, slightly inferior. You may not see it that way, which is fine because it might be so negligible as to the size, but it's there, and when it's there, it's the definition of racism towards everyone else. Book definition, you are. Yes, it sucks, but you fit the description if youre doing it.

So if I prefer to hang out with geeks and not jocks, am I being a jock racist? Or do we simply have no word for that because the term 'racism' has come to mean something entirely childish (:bobby is better at kickball than billy, so I choose bobby" would also be an example of 'racism') yet still holds the impact of labeling someone as a member of the KKK?

I mean, I am putting geeks on a higher pedestal than jocks. Why doesn't that have its own term? Why is it any different? Because people are simply obsessed with 'racism' and merely use it for social control?

[Deleted]

Yeah, sounds pretty racist.

Yeah, sounds pretty racist.

No. There are actual differences between genders, all else held equal, that could be considered socially relevant. I can't see anything similar in races.

Based on your definitions, you're racist by acknowledging races.

[spinner981]

No. There are actual differences between genders, all else held equal, that could be considered socially relevant. I can't see anything similar in races.

And we have officially reached the point where your entire argument rides on your own opinion and interpretation. Shall I venture into the unknown yet almost assuredly hostile jungle of claiming that people of different races statistically tend to have even slightly different personality traits for whatever reason, be it nature or nurture?

[Spectral]

Based on your definitions, you're racist by acknowledging races.

That's absolutely incoherent. Races exist. That's just a reality. I realize you're hunting for anything here, but this doesn't work at all.

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And we have officially reached the point where your entire argument rides on your own opinion and interpretation.

No, we sure haven't. We've arrived at the point where straightforward definitions apply. If you prefer one race over another, you are expressing a racist preference. That's pretty plain.

Shall I venture into the unknown yet almost assuredly hostile jungle of claiming that people of different races statistically tend to have even slightly different personality traits for whatever reason, be it nature or nurture?

Feel free to, and I won't disagree. The thing is, individual variation absolutely swamps this.

[obdigore]

Based on your definitions, you're racist by acknowledging races.

Nuuupe.

Having a preference for one race over another is racist. Acknowledging that there are a few (extremely minor) differences based on your heredity isn't racist, unless/until you start to associate/disassociate with a specific group.

[Deleted]

That's absolutely incoherent. Races exist. That's just a reality. I realize you're hunting for anything here, but this doesn't work at all.

So, if we say that there are differences between people and we can group them into:
a)genders
b)races
Hanging out with guys is not sexist, but hanging out with Whites is racist?

[spinner981]

No, we sure haven't. We've arrived at the point where straightforward definitions apply. If you prefer one race over another, you are expressing a racist preference. That's pretty plain.

Feel free to, and I won't disagree. The thing is, individual variation absolutely swamps this.

I was referring to this tidbit: "I can't see anything similar in races." as being your opinion. If there are differences then it would be socially relevant, as you said.

And why does the claim that 'individual variation absolutely swamps this' somehow negate said fact? Isn't a skyscraper large compared to a human, even though the sun is far larger? Yet skyscrapers still matter to us, as well as our homes and cars, even though they are not as large as the sun. The largeness of the sun does not negate the largeness of a skyscraper relative to us. The existence of racial variation is there, regardless of the existence of individual variation. The same goes for gender too, yet that is somehow a different story to you.

[Spectral]

Hanging out with guys is not sexist, but hanging out with Whites is racist?

No, hanging out with white people isn't racist. Expressing a preference for hanging out with white people is racist.

Again though, these aren't that comparable - there are actual differences between genders that are much more substantial, particularly in cultural context. If someone said they only like hanging out with guys though, yeah, I'd be leery of whether they've got some misogyny going. I guess the kiddos aren't so great at cross gender interactions, but in the normal adult world, you can go out drinking or playing poker with people regardless of gender or race.

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I was referring to this tidbit: "I can't see anything similar in races." as being your opinion. If there are differences then it would be socially relevant, as you said.

And why does the claim that 'individual variation absolutely swamps this' somehow negate said fact? Isn't a skyscraper large compared to a human, even though the sun is far larger? Yet skyscrapers still matter to us, as well as our homes and cars, even though they are not as large as the sun. The largeness of the sun does not negate the largeness of a skyscraper relative to us. The existence of racial variation is there, regardless of the existence of individual variation. The same goes for gender too, yet that is somehow a different story to you.

This is rank sophistry, not worth addressing.

If you don't like hanging around with people that don't look like you, there's no need to invent reasons that you're not racist. Just own it.

[obdigore]

No, hanging out with white people isn't racist. Expressing a preference for hanging out with white people is racist.

Again though, these aren't that comparable - there are actual differences between genders that are much more substantial, particularly in cultural context. If someone said they only like hanging out with guys though, yeah, I'd be leery of whether they've got some misogyny going. I guess the kiddos aren't so great at cross gender interactions, but in the normal adult world, you can go out drinking or playing poker with people regardless of gender or race.

Strip poker is best poker. And if you aren't playing said game with some people you find sexually attractive, I'm forced to ask what you are doing.

(Unless you are on the WPT).

[Deleted]

No, hanging out with white people isn't racist. Expressing a preference for hanging out with white people is racist.

Again though, these aren't that comparable - there are actual differences between genders that are much more substantial, particularly in cultural context. If someone said they only like hanging out with guys though, yeah, I'd be leery of whether they've got some misogyny going. I guess the kiddos aren't so great at cross gender interactions, but in the normal adult world, you can go out drinking or playing poker with people regardless of gender or race.

Absolutes. No "cultural impact" and similar fairy tales we tell ourselves to feel better.
So, hypothetical question. You like hanging out with women, but you prefer to hang out with guys anyway. Are you sexist?

[spinner981]

If you don't like hanging around with people that don't look like you, there's no need to invent reasons that you're not racist. Just own it.

Oh, so now it has gone from "don't like hanging out with people that have contrary personalities to you." to "don't like hanging around with people that don't look like you".

Also, here is a fact: Nobody else in the world looks like me. Everybody is different. Why is skin color so special and not hair color, eye color, nose length, head shape or freckle count?

[Spectral]

Oh, so now it has gone from "don't like hanging out with people that have contrary personalities to you." to "don't like hanging around with people that don't look like you".

Also, here is a fact: Nobody else in the world looks like me. Everybody is different. Why is skin color so special and not hair color, eye color, nose length, head shape or freckle count?

I guess if you're electing to not hang out with people based on freckle count, you're not a racist, you're just being a garden variety dick.

[spinner981]

No, hanging out with white people isn't racist. Expressing a preference for hanging out with white people is racist.

Again though, these aren't that comparable - there are actual differences between genders that are much more substantial, particularly in cultural context. If someone said they only like hanging out with guys though, yeah, I'd be leery of whether they've got some misogyny going. I guess the kiddos aren't so great at cross gender interactions, but in the normal adult world, you can go out drinking or playing poker with people regardless of gender or race.

Well yes, if they are your friend/acquaintance. I think the real moment this topic concerns is whether or not somebody becomes said friend/acquaintance to begin with.

[Spectral]

Absolutes. No "cultural impact" and similar fairy tales we tell ourselves to feel better.

This pretty much says it all. "You stop with your cultural impact! Talk in absolutes only!".

I don't think I could parody this shit any better than it's already on here. Seriously guys, if you're uncomfortable with people that aren't as similar to you as possible, I understand. Just don't play pretend time.

[spinner981]

I guess if you're electing to not hang out with people based on freckle count, you're not a racist, you're just being a garden variety dick.

And why is it not just being as you called it a 'garden variety dick' to simply not hang out with people of different skin color? Are we saying that there is no difference between being a racist and just being a 'dick'?

I personally would prefer to hang out with a hot girl than somebody with horrible bodily deformities all over them. Does that make me the same as being a racist?

[Deleted]

This pretty much says it all. "You stop with your cultural impact! Talk in absolutes only!".

I don't think I could parody this shit any better than it's already on here. Seriously guys, if you're uncomfortable with people that aren't as similar to you as possible, I understand. Just don't play pretend time.

Pretty much this is your answer to that question: "I can't answer that question!"
Otherwise you would just do it. Instead, you talk about how much different are genders compared to races, ignoring that they are different, no matter how much. You talk about culture like it's universal all around the world.

[spinner981]

This pretty much says it all. "You stop with your cultural impact! Talk in absolutes only!".

I don't think I could parody this shit any better than it's already on here. Seriously guys, if you're uncomfortable with people that aren't as similar to you as possible, I understand. Just don't play pretend time.

Yet we have somehow gotten the point where 'not wanting to hang out with a certain racial group as often as another racial group because you tend to prefer the more likely personalities of one racial group over another' is equal to 'not wanting to hang out with people based solely on skin color'. I believe those are two very different situations.

[Spectral]

I really can't fathom why people want so very badly to be able to behave like racists without being labelled as racist. Want to be racist? Just own that shit. No need to dream up reasons why no wanting to hang around people of different races isn't racist.