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  1. #21
    Pit Lord Blithe's Avatar
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    When are they going to remove Unleash Elements? Or at least give us comparable affects to that new 'Seal' talent that Paladins are getting? Unleashed Fury in its current "Warlords" state feels quite lackluster if you ask me considering we lost two imbues, and the rest are spec-specific, it doesn't really make sense having an "imbue switch" game-play anymore.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Recom View Post
    They stated that stats on weapons won't change at all when changing spec so no ago 2h axe!
    Well, I dont really see a point in that. How many will be using agi staves? Feral/Guardian druids, that's it, right? Monks can put them to use, but dw's better, right?
    Well, the point is, they at least could easily implement agi 2h prime stat switching in like, 2 minutes, I'm sure.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitheqt View Post
    When are they going to remove Unleash Elements? Or at least give us comparable affects to that new 'Seal' talent that Paladins are getting? Unleashed Fury in its current "Warlords" state feels quite lackluster if you ask me considering we lost two imbues, and the rest are spec-specific, it doesn't really make sense having an "imbue switch" game-play anymore.
    I'm not even sure it was really a thing, ever. Imbue or weapon switching was very restrictive for little to no benefit. That's why players couldn't be bothered juggling ft for the imbue and fb for the unleash.

    That said: the best about UF, imo, is the brought back old version of Static Shock, but stronger. It was an actual way of making LS feel substantial. There's nothing unique and class specific in just gaining multistrike though...not just that, in addition to getting haste...so boring an effect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angoth
    I'm sorry that Blizzard won't just gift wrap awesome in a cup and let you drink your fill.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Omanley View Post
    Well, I dont really see a point in that. How many will be using agi staves? Feral/Guardian druids, that's it, right? Monks can put them to use, but dw's better, right?
    Well, the point is, they at least could easily implement agi 2h prime stat switching in like, 2 minutes, I'm sure.
    it makes sense if they add some special procs on them. I think it is a design decision so that weapons still feel special.
    and btw. monks can also use staves without losing much damage at all. also brewmaser use staves.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Nebria View Post
    it makes sense if they add some special procs on them. I think it is a design decision so that weapons still feel special.
    and btw. monks can also use staves without losing much damage at all. also brewmaser use staves.
    Doesn't it hurt damage a lot having only one enchant? I guess agi staves still wont see much usage overall. There aren't many tanks in a raid, and if staves are as used by ww as by ele, 2/3 agi staff users are tanks, so yeah. Also monks are apparently the least played, in every role they represent.

    It also doesn't make much sense in regards to agi daggers. Only rogues use those, but every caster besides paladins (I think) puts those to use, and rogues would have more daggers to choose from (accompanied by more competition, yes) without them feeling a waste of loot table space.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angoth
    I'm sorry that Blizzard won't just gift wrap awesome in a cup and let you drink your fill.

  5. #25
    Dreadlord Kyux's Avatar
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    I agree with OP. I think they should either stay as they are or as OP suggested. Except for one minor detail on the Windfury one. A Tornado on 1/4 hits? That's a lot of visual noise imo and a big spell effect for a small spell. I think it should be a much smaller detail. But that's a minor issue. Also I don't like how spells are being pruned that don't need to. The Weapon imbues were taking up one button so why prune them?

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Omanley View Post
    Doesn't it hurt damage a lot having only one enchant? I guess agi staves still wont see much usage overall. There aren't many tanks in a raid, and if staves are as used by ww as by ele, 2/3 agi staff users are tanks, so yeah. Also monks are apparently the least played, in every role they represent.

    It also doesn't make much sense in regards to agi daggers. Only rogues use those, but every caster besides paladins (I think) puts those to use, and rogues would have more daggers to choose from (accompanied by more competition, yes) without them feeling a waste of loot table space.
    don't know about enchants. are they still proc per minute? is it shared by both weapons? if yes it doesn't matter if dual wield or not.

    well the problem with agi dagger is nobody except rogues use it. staves are used by monks and druids. or in other words 4 specs, 2 classes.
    agi dagger only by one class, one spec.
    the question is what value you give your representation statistics. in our 25man raid we have 1 feral, 2 monks and 1 rogue. and to be honestin the last 3 guidls I was rogues were always one of the least played class. not sure why.
    but back to the weapon. perhaps they had a problem that weapons are shared between much more specs than armory
    I mean mail items are used by hunters and shamans. daggers are used by shamans, rogues, druids, priests.
    best is we ask the devs via twitter about this

    there is new blue post about weapon imbues
    http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/3...imbues-shaman/
    Juesh
    Are they supposed to be missing do not remember seeing notes about them being removed?

    Lore
    We didn't feel that Weapon Imbues were offering much in the way of gameplay. For many players, they felt like more of an annoyance ("why can't I Unleash... oh") than a buff. They're also prime targets for reducing action bar clutter. For those reasons, we decided to convert each spec's primary imbue(s) to passive effects.

    However, while the effects of Windfury and Flametongue are a core part of the Enhancement rotation, Earthliving for Restoration and Flametongue for Elemental are little more than a raw numbers increase. Not really something that we need to clutter up the spellbook with. So, for Resto and Elemental, we decided to remove those effects entirely (and compensate for that when we start numbers tuning). For Enhancement, we merged Windfury and Flametongue into one passive (Enhanced Weapons) that gives the benefits of both effects.

    Please be aware that the currently active Alpha build was taken in the middle of a pretty big wave of class changes (for everyone, not just Shaman). We'll be getting a full update to the patch notes out as soon as possible once we've completed that round of changes.


    One extra thing I forgot to mention that goes along with this change: Unleash Elements is being split into three different spells, unique to each spec: Unleash Life for Restoration, Unleash Flame for Elemental, and Unleash Elements for Enhancement. Each of those spells acts as Unleash Elements currently does with spec-appropriate imbues active.
    I think it is a good change. having no option there is no reason to have the imbues at all, so just adjusting the spells damage is a good solution.
    it is nice that they keep it for enhance in some way so that they keep the iconic windfuy animation.
    Last edited by Nebria; 2014-06-11 at 10:30 PM.

  7. #27
    Well, for Enhance it will not really change the gameplay, is a nice QoL change IMO. at least now we can use weapons without removing the time to trade bound itens
    Everything that is, is alive.

    Agaor - Enhancement Shaman

  8. #28
    Thank god. Weapon imbues were such a silly mechanic that really offered nothing but maintenance. For elemental you would only handicap yourself for not using FT, resto would always use EL and enh would use WF/FT. You could throw a FB in there in PVP and then have to juggle to get the imbue you needed back. And with enh, you had to make sure to click the imbues in the right order to make sure you set it up properly while dual-wielding.

    This opens up the opportunity (albeit still unlikely) for 2-handed enh shamans, since the mechanics are just baked into the spec. Meanwhile it helps everyone focus on the spells you actually want to be casting.

    It's only sad that it took this fucking long for it to happen.

  9. #29
    Pit Lord Protoman's Avatar
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    ULE should do damage.... makes zero sense to remove the damage/healing from ULE right now. If I'm using ULE every 15 sec, I want it to hit for damage..... atleast 100% weapon damage as elemental.

  10. #30
    I honestly like this change.

    Blizz will also have to improve the Unleash Fury talent so that it is actually good for all 3 specs.

    Not to mention that the concept of losing DPS just to have Frostbrand (slow) active in PvP was just horrible (or weapon switching for UF FBrand sprint).

    Also it will no longer be possible for newb shamans to mistake what enhance goes where and which elemental shield they use.

    Everyone gets their proper enhancements and proper shields up at all times ^^

  11. #31
    Pit Lord Blithe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omanley View Post
    Well, I dont really see a point in that. How many will be using agi staves? Feral/Guardian druids, that's it, right? Monks can put them to use, but dw's better, right?
    Well, the point is, they at least could easily implement agi 2h prime stat switching in like, 2 minutes, I'm sure.

    - - - Updated - - -


    I'm not even sure it was really a thing, ever. Imbue or weapon switching was very restrictive for little to no benefit. That's why players couldn't be bothered juggling ft for the imbue and fb for the unleash.

    That said: the best about UF, imo, is the brought back old version of Static Shock, but stronger. It was an actual way of making LS feel substantial. There's nothing unique and class specific in just gaining multistrike though...not just that, in addition to getting haste...so boring an effect.
    Imbue switching has been a thing since dual-wield was introduced and that was its intended use, but Flametongue and Frostbrand was always confusing so they'd be questioned but the main thing was Windfury for main-hand, Flametongue for PvE off-hand, Frostbrand for PvP off-hand and Rockbiter for off-hand for the extra survivability. Clunky as it was, it was clear cut and showed its intended use.

  12. #32
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    Another iconic element of the shaman class getting destroyed. Why are they constantly ruining it? Weapon imbues felt so interesting in the past, back then you actually had a choice and every weapon enchant was cool. Now they are turning them into auras coming with lame excuses like ability pruning or bar cluttering. For real?! These abilities were fucked up by them a long time ago and now, in order not to fix them, they choose to just "remove" them. Is it that hard to change them into something that no matter the spec u could use. Why not make them give % stat increase or something. Make Windfurry give 5-10% increase in haste gain from gear or better yet make it Multistrike instead of haste. Make Flametongue weapon give Cleave ability or, since they already plan on introducing Versatility, make it improve Versatility rating gained from gear. Make Frostbrand give a shield to the caster if he uses dps abilites, a % of the dmg done similar to how the warlock ability works. Make Earthliving weapon give some % mastery rating increase as well as a hot that u place on ur self when u do dmg or on allies when u heal them. Make Rockbitter increase the dmg of the weapon by a small percentage for the melee and for the caster's make it give some extra Spell Power. This way we actually get a chance to mix and match these Weapon Imbues which have always been a signature spell for the shamans. And also get rid of the fucking UE and UF which managed to screw the feeling that Weapon Imbues brought to the game since they managed to get them changed and nerfed all the time.

    And also make the freaking shields usable for all specs and make them give benefits to each of them.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Mistripper View Post
    .
    Passive stat buff is more interesting than it is on live ? No it's not. I think I speak for the majority when I say that weapon imbues are and were boring as hell and not compelling at all. I'm glad they removed them since refreshing them every hour was more of a pain than anything else.

    You have to understand that sometimes you need to make room so you can add stuff again.

  14. #34
    Pit Lord Blithe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistripper View Post
    Another iconic element of the shaman class getting destroyed. Why are they constantly ruining it? Weapon imbues felt so interesting in the past, back then you actually had a choice and every weapon enchant was cool. Now they are turning them into auras coming with lame excuses like ability pruning or bar cluttering. For real?! These abilities were fucked up by them a long time ago and now, in order not to fix them, they choose to just "remove" them. Is it that hard to change them into something that no matter the spec u could use. Why not make them give % stat increase or something. Make Windfurry give 5-10% increase in haste gain from gear or better yet make it Multistrike instead of haste. Make Flametongue weapon give Cleave ability or, since they already plan on introducing Versatility, make it improve Versatility rating gained from gear. Make Frostbrand give a shield to the caster if he uses dps abilites, a % of the dmg done similar to how the warlock ability works. Make Earthliving weapon give some % mastery rating increase as well as a hot that u place on ur self when u do dmg or on allies when u heal them. Make Rockbitter increase the dmg of the weapon by a small percentage for the melee and for the caster's make it give some extra Spell Power. This way we actually get a chance to mix and match these Weapon Imbues which have always been a signature spell for the shamans. And also get rid of the fucking UE and UF which managed to screw the feeling that Weapon Imbues brought to the game since they managed to get them changed and nerfed all the time.

    And also make the freaking shields usable for all specs and make them give benefits to each of them.
    I feel Cataclysm was the middle ground for weapon imbues. Albeit they are a clunky form of stance-dancing, they worked well and Unleash Weapon complimented them. Nowadays, or even before then - not so much. I'm still curious as to why our set bonus was made into a glyph (off-hand snare) instead of being passive like every other melee snare. I feel it's most similar to Retribution (they have to glyph for Burden of Guilt) but they also have Seal of Justice.

  15. #35
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Recom View Post
    Passive stat buff is more interesting than it is on live ? No it's not. I think I speak for the majority when I say that weapon imbues are and were boring as hell and not compelling at all. I'm glad they removed them since refreshing them every hour was more of a pain than anything else.

    You have to understand that sometimes you need to make room so you can add stuff again.
    Passive stat buff was just an idea but at least it gave u some choice. Every type could prove useful in a certain environments and and also u can choose depending on your gear. With the introduction of more secondary stats and removal of reforge and gems it will be very hard to get the bis gear. Using these forms of weapon imbues could help you a lot and even bring out alternative play styles.

    So the most annoying thing u could find about them is that u have to refresh them? LoL. And yes they are boring now as u have no choice whatsoever and they have been ruined by blizzard when they made UE more important. But no they were not so boring in the past. True it has passed a long time since they were actually fun. But why remove them? Make room for what? Iconic spells is what makes a class unique. Shamans are all about harnessing the power of the elements through totems and enhancing weapons for combat. Totem part was partially destroyed and the only reasons they are keeping them is cause dropping them would mean the death of the class and weapon imbues have tuned down to point at which they have no more relevance for the class.

  16. #36
    I don't mind them making weapon imbues passive but removing Earthliving for healing shaman I don't like. I would prefer they just make that a passive buff to. Don't really care if they will buff the rest of our healing to make up for it that isn't the point. The point is Earthliving has been part of restro shaman for quiet a long time now and to have it gone just wouldn't feel right to me, I like having a little hot that can proc off your healing and I like the visual and sound effects for it to, its an added skill kinda even if it is passive. Its also the same for Ancestral Awakening that they all ready are scrapping, I understand why but to have it gone completely I'm still sad about because its been part of shaman for ages now and I'm going to miss those tiny spirits helping me. Removing stuff like this kinda removes some of the feel for me healing as a restro shaman as they have been part of them for ages now. Seems there making it more boring then anything else, so far they are only removing cool little things like this and not doing anything else for shaman.
    Last edited by jac9996; 2014-06-12 at 12:33 PM.

  17. #37
    I guess it's a good thing they made them passive, it's not like we even every say them any more since weapon enchants overwrote them.

    I kinda hope they don't do the same thing to lightning/water shield.

    Lightning shield and searing totem are my lag test buttons lol.

    I just hope this doesn't make 2h enhc viable.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Nebria View Post
    don't know about enchants. are they still proc per minute? is it shared by both weapons? if yes it doesn't matter if dual wield or not.
    They have no shared cooldown, obviously. And I'd expect a weapon dancing enchant or w/e it's called to be a lot of dps. So no, not 4 specs, but 3.
    And as I said; two of these specs are tanks, which are the smallest role group, so agi staves will not see lots of interested parties. Some balance/resto druids may take them for secondary gear, and some ww for tanking, but that's it. And as you noticed, agi daggers are a waste. Baseline, they should give the primary stat switching to weapons also.

    the question is what value you give your representation statistics. in our 25man raid we have 1 feral, 2 monks and 1 rogue. and to be honestin the last 3 guidls I was rogues were always one of the least played class. not sure why.
    Rogues are unpopular for a number of reasons. Like hunters, they are to similar between specs: Collect cps with your signature cp builder, and spend them with your signature finisher move, throw in two or three other abilities, done. They all run on energy and have no secondary recources either. They all fill the same role as well (melee dps) and because of that aren't flexible in filling a raid roaster either. Also, even the different specialisation themes aren't that exciting; Assa places more importance on poisons, sub on stealth and combat, well, on combat.
    but back to the weapon. perhaps they had a problem that weapons are shared between much more specs than armory
    I mean mail items are used by hunters and shamans. daggers are used by shamans, rogues, druids, priests.
    best is we ask the devs via twitter about this
    Hard to see why they would think that. Rogues can already x-mog caster daggers, or casters rogue daggers. All it would do would adding more choices for everyone, allowing more gear to be worn by more people and having less wasted in terms of drops.
    Also daggers are also used by warlocks and mages.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angoth
    I'm sorry that Blizzard won't just gift wrap awesome in a cup and let you drink your fill.

  19. #39
    hm the only reason that I can think of would be that they don't want that one weapon is shared by to much people.
    the dagger example is a good one this time.
    from one spec (rogue/agi dagger) to 5+ specs
    "sorry mr. rogue the warlock rolled a higher number"

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Mistripper View Post
    Passive stat buff was just an idea but at least it gave u some choice. Every type could prove useful in a certain environments and and also u can choose depending on your gear. With the introduction of more secondary stats and removal of reforge and gems it will be very hard to get the bis gear. Using these forms of weapon imbues could help you a lot and even bring out alternative play styles.
    I see your point and in a world where you really have a choice in which stat you focus i'd agree but in wow there is always one better stat and in the end you'd use the corresponding imbue.

    So the most annoying thing u could find about them is that u have to refresh them? LoL. And yes they are boring now as u have no choice whatsoever and they have been ruined by blizzard when they made UE more important. But no they were not so boring in the past. True it has passed a long time since they were actually fun. But why remove them? Make room for what? Iconic spells is what makes a class unique. Shamans are all about harnessing the power of the elements through totems and enhancing weapons for combat. Totem part was partially destroyed and the only reasons they are keeping them is cause dropping them would mean the death of the class and weapon imbues have tuned down to point at which they have no more relevance for the class.
    No, that was on reason, they mostly are boring because they don't do much except for WF and Earthliving to some extent.
    WF is staying the iconic part is safe IMO.

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