Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Destruktion]

Golden Pagoda...

That daily questing hub was SO HATED by the time 5.3 launched, they blew it the fuck UP just to get people to stop talking about World of Dailycraft. Now, I'm not saying they will make ALL mounts into flying mounts, but when Blizz screws up big, they acknowledge it with a big response.

OK? Golden Pagoda was in the first iteration of Mists of Pandailya. Then there was Operation Stonewall, then Isle of Thunder, then finally the oh-so-beloved Timeless Isle.
Looks pretty apparent to me that Blizzard did not give up on open-world content.

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They will if they start to lose large player base and I can see that happening even more so considering people bought some sore mounts so they can fly with them and that costs money, real money.

Over flying. Really?

You're right they have to loose first a good portion of the playerbase for they starting to consider they did a mistake, 2M suscribers lost in cata and 2M in MoP, to correct their curse

They pretty much corrected their mistake immediately with heroic dungeons. They corrected their dailies mistake over the course of three patches in WoW.
It's an iterative design process. At no point in this game's history has Blizzard just given up designing the game because of fickle complainers who can't ever be pleased.

[Bacon is the Answer]

OK? Golden Pagoda was in the first iteration of Mists of Pandailya. Then there was Operation Stonewall, then Isle of Thunder, then finally the oh-so-beloved Timeless Isle.
Looks pretty apparent to me that Blizzard did not give up on open-world content.

Let's see. The Pagoda and Operation were dailies. Pretty much VACANT after 5.3. As for Dino Isle and Timeless Isle, aside from the coin farmers, how many people did anything more than take a whack at the loot pinata, try the dailies, and do celestials for a pet or rep? The Isle was hardly "beloved" other than PvPers and Censor users. There was nothing engaging about it once you had your epic gear, and your Ordos kill.

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At no point in this game's history has Blizzard just given up designing the game because of fickle complainers who can't ever be pleased.

Path of the Titans, Dance Studio, and Mounted combat would like a word with you.

[Destruktion]

Let's see. The Pagoda and Operation were dailies. Pretty much VACANT after 5.3. As for Dino Isle and Timeless Isle, aside from the coin farmers, how many people did anything more than take a whack at the loot pinata, try the dailies, and do celestials for a pet or rep? The Isle was hardly "beloved" other than PvPers and Censor users. There was nothing engaging about it once you had your epic gear, and your Ordos kill.

The beloved part was tongue-in-cheek mate, though I guess that doesn't transfer well over the internet.
The point remains: iterative design. They never actually gave up on dailies or other repeatable open-world content, they just tweaked it considerably.
The same will happen with flying.

Path of the Titans, Dance Studio, and Mounted combat would like a word with you.

Fair enough, but were those given up because of player feedback?

[tawoko]

Just throwing in my two cents, but I've been recently leveling a character without flying. I've actually been thoroughly enjoying it. It forces me to play smarter, be more aware, and to enjoy the surroundings as they were intended to be enjoyed. Besides, flying should always be a post-game thing, especially in places like Nagrand, Blade's Edge, Borean Tundra, Howling Fjord, Dragonblight... I might as well list every zone, because they're all better from the ground!

[Sweetpeaz]

OK? Golden Pagoda was in the first iteration of Mists of Pandailya. Then there was Operation Stonewall, then Isle of Thunder, then finally the oh-so-beloved Timeless Isle.
Looks pretty apparent to me that Blizzard did not give up on open-world content.

If anything I think they are moving towards more and more open world, because it scales so much better with combining realms and it's cheaper to develop. Of the ones you mentioned above, Operation Stonewall was the only one I enjoyed.

They pretty much corrected their mistake immediately with heroic dungeons. They corrected their dailies mistake over the course of three patches in WoW.
It's an iterative design process. At no point in this game's history has Blizzard just given up designing the game because of fickle complainers who can't ever be pleased.

I think their daily thing was the biggest mistake. Not that dailies themselves were the issue, I never felt they were, I felt that they didn't have any other choice but to run them. The addition of choosing a reputation to gain was the only thing that was needed. Yet they went and did a 180 and moved away from the dailies altogether.

Blizzard is tone deaf on a lot of things. Dailies weren't the problem, only having dailies were the problem.

[Bacon is the Answer]

The beloved part was tongue-in-cheek mate, though I guess that doesn't transfer well over the internet.
The point remains: iterative design. They never actually gave up on dailies or other repeatable open-world content, they just tweaked it considerably.
The same will happen with flying.

Fair enough, but were those given up because of player feedback?

Probably in spite of. Path of the Titans was ready to patch in, and they walked away from it. As for Dance Studio, I think people will give up on that... someday.

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Just throwing in my two cents, but I've been recently leveling a character without flying. I've actually been thoroughly enjoying it. It forces me to play smarter, be more aware, and to enjoy the surroundings as they were intended to be enjoyed. Besides, flying should always be a post-game thing, especially in places like Nagrand, Blade's Edge, Borean Tundra, Howling Fjord, Dragonblight... I might as well list every zone, because they're all better from the ground!

Good for you mate. Now, when you hit 54 characters spanned over 7 realms, and have been doing alts non stop for 8 years, please come back and share this sentiment again

[Nayaga]

OK? Golden Pagoda was in the first iteration of Mists of Pandailya. Then there was Operation Stonewall, then Isle of Thunder, then finally the oh-so-beloved Timeless Isle.
Looks pretty apparent to me that Blizzard did not give up on open-world content.

Timeless Isle may have been oh-so-beloved to you, I and many others hated it.

[Bacon is the Answer]

Timeless Isle may have been oh-so-beloved to you, I and many others hated it.

Turns out he was being Sarcastic. I missed it too.

[Destruktion]

I think their daily thing was the biggest mistake. Not that dailies themselves were the issue, I never felt they were, I felt that they didn't have any other choice but to run them. The addition of choosing a reputation to gain was the only thing that was needed. Yet they went and did a 180 and moved away from the dailies altogether.

Blizzard is tone deaf on a lot of things. Dailies weren't the problem, only having dailies were the problem.

Agreed. They said that there will be dailies in WoD but very few, so maybe they've learned from this.

Probably in spite of. Path of the Titans was ready to patch in, and they walked away from it. As for Dance Studio, I think people will give up on that... someday.

How about Abyssal Maw? That was the one thing I think they SHOULD have patched in anyways, because more dungeons are always better than less.

[Bacon is the Answer]

Agreed. They said that there will be dailies in WoD but very few, so maybe they've learned from this.



How about Abyssal Maw? That was the one thing I think they SHOULD have patched in anyways, because more dungeons are always better than less.

Or, the Karazhan crypts.

[CheeseSandwich]

I finally get caught up with these pages, then I have to go to work or get distracted and come back, there are 15 more pages to read.

I think the fact that this topic has easily generated over 2000 pages on this fan site alone, points to the fact that this will be a major issue. Part of me thinks this is all a subversive PR exercise, just to keep a buzz of conversation happening about WoD, considering the length of the content gap.

And besides anything else, I really don't see what Blizz has to GAIN from whole sale removal of flight. Why are they getting rid of such a good income stream as selling flying mounts? The excuse that "they are making the game better" is kinda redonkulus, cuz in max level content they don't want us to fly in, we generally don't/can't. Unless they provide a means for us too, like a glider or something.

I love that this had made the community so passionate about something, but I just can't shake the feeling it is manufactured.

[Bacon is the Answer]

I finally get caught up with these pages, then I have to go to work or get distracted and come back, there are 15 more pages to read.

I think the fact that this topic has easily generated over 2000 pages on this fan site alone, points to the fact that this will be a major issue. Part of me thinks this is all a subversive PR exercise, just to keep a buzz of conversation happening about WoD, considering the length of the content gap.

And besides anything else, I really don't see what Blizz has to GAIN from whole sale removal of flight. Why are they getting rid of such a good income stream as selling flying mounts? The excuse that "they are making the game better" is kinda redonkulus, cuz in max level content they don't want us to fly in, we generally don't/can't. Unless they provide a means for us too, like a glider or something.

I love that this had made the community so passionate about something, but I just can't shake the feeling it is manufactured.

Maybe it is. Maybe the whole thing is little more than "Taste's Great, Less Filling". Ultimately, I doubt flying will be removed longer than 6.1, and all this hype is intended to get people to buy the expansion, pay their subs for 4 months, and watch for a potential trainwreck in 6.1. Personally, I think it is just as you say. Little more than a sales ploy to generate revenue and interest for WoD.

[Sweetpeaz]

After the annoucement of their new in store mount this has really become clear to me. This isn't about flight being bad for the game. This is about making it so people need to have groups of people to do content.

They screwed up by never doing anything about realm populations for years, and made change after change to make the game more solo player friendly. Now they are trying to undo it. They want you to group up, forced or otherwise, and consume the content. They want to penalize players for playing solo, by taking away the things they enjoy, in order to encourage people to play in groups.

I went to TI and tried to grind mobs for a bit. I got to honored or maybe revered, but nowhere near exalted. Because in order to solo your way to exalted would take several hours every day for months. Get with a group and it's orders of magnitude faster.

I would have been in support of many of these items had they done them in TBC or WotLK. Not now. They aren't going to force anybody into groups.

[Bacon is the Answer]

This will be WoD without any flying mounts. Just ground mounts... plummeting. lol

[Florena]

Maybe it is. Maybe the whole thing is little more than "Taste's Great, Less Filling". Ultimately, I doubt flying will be removed longer than 6.1, and all this hype is intended to get people to buy the expansion, pay their subs for 4 months, and watch for a potential trainwreck in 6.1. Personally, I think it is just as you say. Little more than a sales ploy to generate revenue and interest for WoD.

Yes, it couldn't just be that they're sincere in wanting to make the world more engaging and, mistaken or not, think removing flying might help so they're going to experiment with it. They MUST be conspiring to potentially shoot themselves in the foot to get more money! No, you don't agree with their stated reasons so they MUST be lying.

[Bacon is the Answer]

Yes, it couldn't just be that they're sincere in wanting to make the world more engaging and, mistaken or not, think removing flying might help so they're going to experiment with it. They MUST be conspiring to potentially shoot themselves in the foot to get more money! No, you don't agree with their stated reasons so they MUST be lying.

It seems like that load of shit is what anti-fliers and Blizzard ass kissers keep coming back with. Flight will be back in 6.1.

[Florena]

Will you just shut up with those lame ass excuses. It seems like that load of shit is what anti-fliers and Blizzard ass kissers keep coming back with. Flight will be back in 6.1.

It might well be. But that doesn't mean that they're lying. Blizzard itterates on everything they do, and what to do with flying in WoD is one of those things. If you disagree with blizzard's stated reasons for trying this, that's fine. Argue against those points. But frankly the load of shit I see is people constantly saying 'omg this makes NO SENSE this must be a ploy' when, to plenty of people, it DOES make sense even if you don't agree with it.

[Sweetpeaz]

Yes, it couldn't just be that they're sincere in wanting to make the world more engaging and, mistaken or not, think removing flying might help so they're going to experiment with it. They MUST be conspiring to potentially shoot themselves in the foot to get more money! No, you don't agree with their stated reasons so they MUST be lying.

There is nothing more compelling to keep you in the game longer and longer, than playing with a group of people that you consider 'friends'. Peer pressure can be intense.

This is about forcing people to play together, like you used to years ago, before they started making it a single player game from their lack of a solution to declining realms.

[Bacon is the Answer]

It might well be. But that doesn't mean that they're lying. Blizzard itterates on everything they do, and what to do with flying in WoD is one of those things. If you disagree with blizzard's stated reasons for trying this, that's fine. Argue against those points. But frankly the load of shit I see is people constantly saying 'omg this makes NO SENSE this must be a ploy' when, to plenty of people, it DOES make sense even if you don't agree with it.

Have I personally called them liars? No.
Have I said millions will unsub? No.
Have I mentioned ways to balance flight? Yes.
Do I think no flying is a huge mistake? Yes.

Your "rant" is aimed at the loud, and emotionally charge occupants of this thread, not at me. You would do well to remember who your audience is before just popping off at the mouth about shit I never said.

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No flying is a huge mistake. Period.

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If flying does NOT come back in 6.1, zones are gonna be pretty empty on some servers.

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There is nothing more compelling to keep you in the game longer and longer, than playing with a group of people that you consider 'friends'. Peer pressure can be intense.

This is about forcing people to play together, like you used to years ago, before they started making it a single player game from their lack of a solution to declining realms.

And we all know how forced social interaction ends up.

[Florena]

Have I personally called them liars? No.
Have I said millions will unsub? No.
Have I mentioned ways to balance flight? Yes.
Do I think no flying is a huge mistake? Yes.

Your "rant" is aimed at the loud, and emotionally charge occupants of this thread, not at me. You would do well to remember who your audience is before just popping off at the mouth about shit I never said.

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No flying is a huge mistake. Period.

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If flying does NOT come back in 6.1, zones are gonna be pretty empty on some servers.

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And we all know how forced social interaction ends up.

You called it a sales ploy in your post. Thus, you're saying their REAL reasons for this are not what their stated reasons are, so yes you are calling them liars even if indirectly.

"Ultimately, I doubt flying will be removed longer than 6.1, and all this hype is intended to get people to buy the expansion, pay their subs for 4 months, and watch for a potential trainwreck in 6.1. Personally, I think it is just as you say. Little more than a sales ploy to generate revenue and interest for WoD. "

So yes you did say, or at least imply, that they are lying about their motives for no flying.