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  1. #41
    Legendary! MasterHamster's Avatar
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    The fact that 5mans dungeons while leveling can be done while healer is asleep up until Cata dungeons is so dull. I can understand zone leveling posing little challenge, but what's the fun when even bosses are hardly any more challenging than a mob with a little more health? Honestly, a flat +100% buff to health and damage of all dungeon creatures below 80 would probably only make dungeons more fun. You know, perhaps the boss might deal enough damage to the tank that he needs more than a Flash Heal.

    Bad enough that 75% group damage is from Consecrate and other tank AoEs.
    Last edited by MasterHamster; 2014-06-19 at 04:38 AM.
    Active WoW player Jan 2006 - Aug 2020
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    Nothing lasts forever, as they say.
    But at least I can casually play Classic and remember when MMORPGs were good.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Seegtease View Post
    Of course we are, because Blizzard is (and always technically has) catering to the largest audience to maximize profits. Other MMOs follow suit, because nobody wants to make a game that is challenging all the way through, because it doesn't sell as well. Just leaves people who like the challenge with nothing to play, sadly.
    Companies that want to produce niche games with tiny ... er ... small audiences can go right ahead and make their hardcore MMO games, and there are still some out there.

    Of course, very few people want to play them.

    Here's what the real deal is with why people want WoW to be "hard." Because (1) after playing it for X years they are quite good at it and (2) it is gratifying to see newbies fail at something that you personally consider trivially easy, because see (1).

    If WoW is too easy, go find a game that (1) you suck at where (2) you are surrounded by other people who find it trivially easy and (3) who constantly ridicule you for your ineptitude, and give yourself that awesome experience that you think other people should be having.

  3. #43
    I think players want to get to the end-game as fast as possible. We will have 100 levels when WoD hits and a long leveling journey to 100 will not encourage new players to start.
    I think even old players, who want to level an alt, will be discouraged if it took a long time to get to max lvl.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Low-level questing has become a morass of problems: set it right for people in heirlooms and new players would struggle. Set it right for new players (which is what I think they've done) and it's too easy for anyone that's been in the game for a while or has heirlooms. I don't know that it's worth the effort to solve it and I think that's one of the contributing things to start-at-ninety characters.
    .
    My girlfriend has never played an MMO before and she still dies occasionally when questing, it's just right for her.
    New players unfamiliar with the mechanics of the game have a nice challenge.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    They didn't make it easier, they made the classes stronger. Much, much stronger. They made TBC instances easier at the end of TBC, all of them had a blanket 30% nerf, but that was during the TBC expansion.


    Nothing really got easier, classes just got much much stronger. Low levels these days are doing as much/more dps than full BIS lvl70's did in TBC. In addition to monsterous dps for the level, these classes have self healing and great survival, higher than normal avoidance and damage reduction available, healers have stronger heals with minimal mana issues and even good dps of their own.

    The reason everything is so easy is simply because the classes were weak in old expansions, really weak compared to now.
    Please read the patches then. They made several (SEVERAL) nerfs to the outside world mobs including elites. They made several nerfs to the dungeons. They did a major nerf to old content when Cata came. Added to that the classes and talents as you said are much more powerfull... yes... it is fecking easy.

  6. #46
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    Levelling is just awful and pointless for any experienced players, in fact its not even good for new players its for supernoobs who are just completely new to these sort of games altogether and there are far better ways to help these players, they either need to give us alterantive ways to level like let us quest and level in red zones with harder dungeons (that give more/bonus xp) or just let us skip to level 85 if we have one or more level 90's.
    The whole levelling system seems to only exist for nostalgia purposes nowadays and the thought of 100 levels of levelling in this game now will be a depressing thought to anyone thinking about alts or inviting new players.

  7. #47
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    Who cares about levelling content? It's such a minor part of the overall game.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongTimeCreeper View Post
    Normal nexus (or any normal wrath dungeon) was not difficult, even when current content. Add to that new skills/spells and heirlooms and the fact everyone knows what to do there... Leveling was never meant to be challenging
    Here we have someone who started after Cata and thinks he knows how everything used to be.

    When wotlk came out nexus was a long and easy to wipe in dungeon, as were most other normals, we didn't have spammable shit that did 50% of enemies hp every sec back then.

    Also, I'll never forgive Blizz for changing the old world, that was the end of WoW for me, but I guess by money spent on sub since Cata came out Blizz knows that already.

  9. #49
    To be perfectly honest. WOTLK was pretty shit in terms of "challenge" aswell. AoE-fests we called it. But au contrare to Cata and MoP had, they were still fun. (Cata would have been perfect for me if the dungeons were left unnerfed from day one)

  10. #50
    Herald of the Titans Orangetai420's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ampere View Post
    I assume you have heirlooms and are very familiar with the game?

    They balance leveling stuff so that new players without good gear are still able to succeed. Just like how normal mode raids are way too easy for top guilds, doesn't mean the difficulty is wrong.

    Sounds like you want "heroic questing". It could be a neat idea.
    Heroic questing and 5 man dungeons that are truly heroic (while leveling) would be amazing!
    MMO-C, home of the worst community on the internet.

  11. #51
    Also please note this thread where pretty much the same has been discussed to death: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...y-easy/page149

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    Please read the patches then. They made several (SEVERAL) nerfs to the outside world mobs including elites. They made several nerfs to the dungeons. They did a major nerf to old content when Cata came. Added to that the classes and talents as you said are much more powerfull... yes... it is fecking easy.
    They removed elites yes, but that's about it, apart from hitting a few specific mobs with excessive abilities like defias pillagers fireball they didn't nerf much. Cata overhaul didn't nerf the vanilla mobs but used the same stats for mobs as from vanilla. Almost all of the mob nerfs for classic mobs happened in TBC.

    Subsequently nerfs for Woltk and TBC elites happened overtime in Woltk, cata and mop.

    However this didn't have much of an affect, they didn't nerf elites because they wanted to game to be easier, they did it because people just skipped elite quests, elites weren't challenging. They just had hp and damage tuned for a group (Outside of certain classes that could solo them) and didn't give enough of a reward to be worth doing, hell even when the content was current relatively few people did elite quests properly, often having a high level friend come faceroll it for them.

    They removed elites and elite quests because they were poorly designed from the get go, timeless isle rares and elites are a prototype of the new kind of challenging world content they want to try out in WoD, just a test run.

    Blizzard never did blanket nerfs to old old expansion mobs outside of elites, it really is just cause of the massive base character power boost that happened each expansion.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    Also please note this thread where pretty much the same has been discussed to death: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...y-easy/page149
    Not to mention the fact that this same subject of difficulty has been discussed since the games inception.

    WOW has always been the MMO that opened the genre up to "casuals". For many, WOW leveling has always been thought of as amazingly easy.

    I would be willing to bet you could find at least 1 forum thread just like the OPs on the WOW forums everyday for as long as the game has existed. Despite the constant outcry by some that the game is too easy WOW just keeps on somehow managing to be the most popular subscription based MMO ever.

    Blizzard is like, "If I had a $1000 for every 'QQ teh gaim iz 2 ez' thread... Oh wait! I do...lawl!!!1"

    As far as current leveling goes, I believe if they made it harder/longer/grindier right now we would see an outcry on the forums that EVIL-ACTI-BLI$$ORD is just trying to make everyone buy level 90s.

  14. #54
    I leveled when wipes were common, downtime was often, and I remember having actual difficulty in places that are now a joke for even new players. I got my gf playing, she did two zones and called the game fucking retarded easy. I gave her no help, heirlooms, anything. She stopped playing.

    I'm still playing, 9 years later from the first time I played.

    Is content this easy really what the masses enjoy? Is it what will keep them playing? I don't think so.

    Catering to lazy, noisy retards does nothing but lower standards across the board. New players aren't as strong, and probably lose interest before capping at all.

    Wows conception defined casual gameplay for the MMO genre; I definitely believe there is a line in terms of making it too simplistic though.
    my rank 1's from years ago don't mean dookie now lmao

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melsiren View Post
    Which is a real shame, some of the remade bosses look like they might have some interesting mechanics you never see.
    The real shame is, if their were enough heroic raiders that actually did all the other things and not just unsub every time they clear content. There would of been less of a need to make content easy enough for the many that make money for them hand over fist. Blizzard is business and has shareholders, they get used to a certain level of constant cash flow, not this I'll come back when there is content in 3 months.

    Very few heroic raiders actually venture in the world to do the various bread crumb stuff Blizzard puts in the game for the more casual of player. That stuff is there to give them a constant level of player based in order to keep the cash flow going. They would not had to make all the stuff had they had a consistent level of players that constantly unsub actually stay and play the rest of the game.

    It unfortunate and a shame that the necessary evil of it all falls on those that feel the are entitled to certain content and complain constantly about when is the newer content coming out. Well if they did not have to create all this other stuff, people like yourself would probably get you raid content faster since that is pretty much all really are concerned about.

    The game should be far more dynamic than it currently is there are plenty of things out in the industry today that could be incorporated for the masses. Though when Blizzard makes a content patch its concentration and focus is not on the world at large, but the raid content. This is what makes them hypocrites, because they want people to be out in the worl yet they don't create enough content constantly to support the world, just little parts of it. If you want the zones full, then keep the content fresh and dynamic.

    Using artificial means to make the zones full is just lame, had they actually update the game content throughout the game constantly way more people would be interested in leveling a character and not buying one. They pretty much made the leveling process and its content worthless and the same will happen to new xpac as well. Once people been through the content a handful of times it gets stale and people just go sit in the cities and complain about not having nothing to do.

    In the case of the new expansion the other unnecessary evil is going to occur "The Garrison" its going to be the substitute for camping out in the city. It won't be dynamic because it has to be phased so everyone can sit in the same zone, otherwise the lag would overwhelming. This will be the hot spot for the people that dwell in the cities and queue for whatever. They might technically be out in the world, but not really out in the world. The occasional trip to the Outpost is not going to make the world feel full and wonderful, this is an illusion just like the CRZ' are an illusion of fantom coming and going.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Insarius View Post
    My girlfriend has never played an MMO before and she still dies occasionally when questing, it's just right for her.
    New players unfamiliar with the mechanics of the game have a nice challenge.
    I think that would be an interesting stat to know, just how many new players they get year over year. I wonder if its even close to the amount they lose in subs year over year.

    Thing is your girlfriend has you to bounce stuff off of when she might need a bit of help. Most people that I have seen in the last year when asking for help in either trade or general chat get treat like absolute crap when they ask a simple question about something. Cruel reality is some veteran players think it perfectly fine to treat new people like shit. I tend to wonder how many of these people just up and quit because of the way they are being treated.

    It is not a matter of getting butt hurt and just throwing up their hands in discuss. This kind of treatment is totally uncalled for and really puts a damper on retain people. Just because one can be an ass does not mean they should be one. I always take the opportunity to help others when they ask for help these days, just so they don't have to be treat like a piece of crap for asking simple question, that only require simple answer in return.
    Last edited by Apexis; 2014-06-19 at 02:24 PM.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Binko View Post
    I do have heirloom armor tho not a weapon. But the heirlooms are no better than same level dungeon blues you can pick up along the way.
    Wrong. Heirlooms are BiS up to lvl 60. The fact you can enchant them and lvl up while keeping your chants (they do scale up as you lvl now) makes them even better.
    I say that as a player playing extensively low lvl twinking.

  18. #58
    There's always going to be a big split between those who want to get to endgame as quick as possible so want levelling as fast as possible, and those who decry the rush to endgame(either because they feel the journey is more important or that it should be a training tool for endgame). Blizzard, banking the majority of an expansion's sub profit on endgame content, will favor supporting fast levelling as it is often cited as one of the biggest hurdles to keeping people subbed.

  19. #59
    Old content is not nerfed. Players have just become too powerful relative to the level range. Pre cata every spell scales insanely well (some even until MoP). Priests have shields that absorb more damage than they have health and so on... And then there's gear that's OP relative to the old content, and I'm not just talking about heirlooms.
    Last edited by zorkuus; 2014-06-19 at 02:31 PM.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by quikbunny View Post
    Who cares about levelling content? It's such a minor part of the overall game.
    That's the attitude that lost Blizzard seven million subscribers.

    Levelling is the shop window for the game. No one starts doing pve or pvp. If it sucks, no one plays.

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