View Poll Results: How would you grade the past three seasons of PVP under Holinka's leadership?

Voters
373. This poll is closed
  • A: It's never been better!

    55 14.75%
  • B: It's been better, but it's not bad.

    112 30.03%
  • C: It could be worse but base resilience keeps this guy off the honor roll.

    74 19.84%
  • D: More mistakes than anything.

    54 14.48%
  • F: Complete disaster!

    78 20.91%
Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ...
3
4
5
6
LastLast
  1. #81
    Pandaren Monk meathead's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Stormwind
    Posts
    1,758
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt0193 View Post
    Most of Wrath's issues were all inherited, PvE gear was an issue which had been persistent since Vanilla. DKs were overtuned because of BETA feedback, where players went out of their way to say "We need this" and Devs were too obliging and gave them all the damage buffs they asked for. Notice how that didn't happen with Monks? They explicitly said "We're not going to listen as intently to feedback regarding monks since it's been shown the community don't ask for smart changes". In regards to Ret's, sure, I can accept that as a fault but again it was brought up in Beta saying "Hey, this is a little too much" and Blizzard said "Nah, it's fine. It'll balance out with gear". Same was said about TfB, Stampede and Frost Bomb just to name a few from MoP which were all shortlisted by players as spells that were overtuned and reported on the PTR/Beta, yet Blizzard did fuck all about it.

    That isn't an issue with Wrath, or BC, that's an issue with Devs not knowing what the fuck to do when it comes to PvP.



    How is that making me look dumb? I took your point and ran with it. Say Blizzard said "Oh let's make Prot the PvP spec, fuck arms and fury, you will be the dedicated flag carrier spec". How would you feel? I'd guess fairly pissed considering you seem to play an Arms Warrior. Guess what? That's how everyone who plays a spec that you consider "Not the PvP spec" would feel your completely fucked up idea was ever reimplemented.



    You're right, I don't think MoP's PvP is good but it's largely because it's a peak of the issue that's been developing since Wrath. Yes, I said Wrath is where this issue started but there are other issues with MoP that have been around since Vanilla, such as the presence of PvE gear in one or more aspects of PvP. And no, I don't think the issue with with multiple classes being designed to be viable in some way. The issue with PvP is the arms race, which would've happened EVEN IF your idea would've been implemented in Wrath or BC, since classes would've gotten new abilities every expansion and be where we are today.
    classic-i get infracted for swearing and you get warned for calling me a dumb fuck-same old shit different day.

    so you say mos tof warths issues were inherited then go on to say you do think warth is where most of the problems started,makes since to me.arp was a problem in wrath because the devs made it so good.pvp gear in BC was top notch,i would say wrath had a bigger problem with pve gear then bs had.

    how does your comment about prot pvp make you look dumb?for the simple fact prot is a pve spec always has been and always will be.what you fail to understand is the fact that the same pvp specs are still best in game for pvp atm as they were years ago.i know what your trying to do and its funny,you want me banned so you keep riding my ass,lmfao.dedicated falg carrier?didnt blizz kill off prot flag carriers a while back?

    arms race you say,yeha that a problem your right about that.guess what?the arms race is no spread out over all specs not just pvp specs now making the problem much much worse and harder to fix.liek i said before for years the game had pvp and pve specs and when they got removed that was one of the reason for wows decline in pvp.you can argue all your want but your wrong.ret was has been viable in pvp for a long time and holy has been one of the best heals in game.i fall to see the problem you ahve with pvp and pve spec.hell i even said some class like pally have to viable pvp specs because healers are needed,yet you still ride me ass.

    look at wow today then look at wow back during its prime,thought so.

    just reread the last part of your post-again pvp and pve specs WERE in game for years.they got removed more or less in wrath and thats were the problems started.

  2. #82
    I'll compare it to last season in cata (assuming Holinka began infulencing pvp most in MoP)
    Good things:
    1. Making elite pvp gear only consemtic - it was really stupid that best players would get better gear making it even harder for less skilled people to compete.
    2. Conquest catch up - before MoP if you didn't pvp from the start or made alt mid-season you had very little chance to get fully geared before season was over.
    3. Ilvl cap on PvE gear and PvP power - very good change, PvE trinkets and weapons (hello Dragon Soul heroic loot) no longer give unfair advantage, making PvP gear best for PvP.
    4. Removal of arena teams and allowing arenas cross-realm
    5. Better class balance (while still not perfect, last season in Cata had many specs that were pretty much useless in PvP, resto druids and enh shamans come to mind)
    6. Conquest gear for honor once you get 27k conquests in given season - makes it so much easier to get gear for your second spec (which was pretty much impossible in Cata)

    Bad things:
    1.PvE gear so much better in world PvP.
    2. Healers too strong in world PvP (no battle fatigue in open world).

    Seeing that bad things only matter in world PvP, I have to say this guy is doing awesome work, so I chose variant A.

  3. #83
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by jackofwind View Post
    I played a 1900+ priest in 2's and 3's and I loved S3. That doesn't mean that it was a completely fucked up season in terms of equality and balance.
    why? cuz some derp specs were not viable?

    I'd take that again over the current mess

  4. #84
    Only con I have from him is that he doesn't seem to know Warlock PvP at all, from his feedback from WoD alpha/beta.

    For general changes, they're a mess right now, but they're looking very attractive moving forward.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by morislayer View Post
    IMO everyone that played a warrior, druid, rogue, lock, mage and maybe a priest has fond memories of s2 & 3. I played a hunter in pvp those days. I hated S2 & 3 and quit till S7
    played a shaman, and loved s2/s3 and would take it back in a heart beat, the game had its balance issues but the mechanics of the game was a much healthier place, and it was the closest this game has ever been to "balance" pvp wise. Each of the underpowered specs needs minor buffs and the op specs needed some minor nerfs.

    warriors - remove skillhearld proc and weapon talents
    rogues - break harp
    druids - lifebloom limited to one target
    locks - break / nerf sl/sl

  6. #86
    I think the pace of the game might be off a bit, but overall there has never been that much diversity in comps and classes in the higher ranks.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by quitefrankly View Post
    I think the pace of the game might be off a bit, but overall there has never been that much diversity in comps and classes in the higher ranks.
    Seasons 6, 7, 8 would like to have a word. MoP was an absolute disaster and arguably worse than s5 at the start and not much better than most of the Cataclysm seasons for the rest.

    tBC was also terribly balanced all around. You could goof around with some comps here and there and make your spec work because an even greater majority of Arena players had very little idea of how to play the game than they do now. There were very very few comps that could compete with one another once you got into the gladiator range.

    S6, 7, 8 had literally at least 2 specs of every single class getting gladiator if not rank 1 across the globe in countless different comps. There's really no competition.
    Last edited by Flaks; 2014-07-01 at 06:59 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
    i7-6700 @2.8GHz | Nvidia GTX 960M | 16GB DDR4-2400MHz | 1 TB Toshiba SSD| Dell XPS 15

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    Seasons 6, 7, 8 would like to have a word. MoP was an absolute disaster and arguably worse than s5 at the start and not much better than most of the Cataclysm seasons for the rest.

    tBC was also terribly balanced all around. You could goof around with some comps here and there and make your spec work because an even greater majority of Arena players had very little idea of how to play the game than they do now. There were very very few comps that could compete with one another once you got into the gladiator range.

    S6, 7, 8 had literally at least 2 specs of every single class getting gladiator if not rank 1 across the globe in countless different comps. There's really no competition.
    tbc also had vanguard type outliers of specs getting glad, unless you think it was common for every spec to get glad? which was flat wrong, then and now.

    every season has a small handful of top notch spec, thats just the nature of competition.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    Seasons 6, 7, 8 would like to have a word. MoP was an absolute disaster and arguably worse than s5 at the start and not much better than most of the Cataclysm seasons for the rest.

    tBC was also terribly balanced all around. You could goof around with some comps here and there and make your spec work because an even greater majority of Arena players had very little idea of how to play the game than they do now. There were very very few comps that could compete with one another once you got into the gladiator range.

    S6, 7, 8 had literally at least 2 specs of every single class getting gladiator if not rank 1 across the globe in countless different comps. There's really no competition.
    I'd love to see proof of those statistics.
    Looking at these statistics from season 1-8, every class has always gotten gladiator, and the stats are always pretty damn close.

    I remember TBC very well since I played a resto druid and while it was fun, it sure wasn't super balanced. It was mostly RMP and WLD. 2s also rewarded titles, and sure enough it was filled with very few comps: druid/warrior, druid/sl/sl lock, priest/rogue.

    Looking at the current ladders, every healer class is represented at a gladiator level, same with every dps spec (even rets!).

  10. #90
    Deleted
    If he really poured every single thought he had since his employment into the game it would be better. Hope capitalism will devour him wholly like every modern employer hopes. People should wake up and think about their work, they should think about it while they work and they should go sleep while think about work and dream about it as well.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    -snip-
    I give up. You're either not comprehending what's written or you're actually as thick as your username would suggest. Go back to smashing bricks on your Arms Warrior. If you can't see that dragging WoW back to the Dark Ages would kill off most of the already waning PvP activity when I don't know what else to say.

  12. #92
    I'm quite liking the amount of classes/spec that are viable in pvp. Yeah some are more overpowered than the others but to be honest, you can't ever reach perfection in anything there will always be flaws.

  13. #93
    MoP was worse on the PvP side then cata even if you disregard S11 and S12. However, it's not only due to Holinka's design decisions. I think the worst part in MoP is that cheating has become more prevalent in PvP.

    TBC and Wotlk weren't all that great either, simply because of Wotlk pacing and TBC viability, so every expansion had it's hickups. MoP was by far the worst mechanic wise to me.

  14. #94
    I've found casual PvP almost completely uninteresting since MoP dropped, particularly because of gear disparities.

    Holinka has gotten it pretty much wrong from my perspective.

  15. #95
    First of all, Holinka didn't design Mists of Pandaria PVP. He was hired on after MoP was released because the old PVP designer was fired for their mistakes.

    Second of all, Holinka has been doing anything and everything in order to fix the problems that MoP created. You can't fix a gunshot wound with a few band-aids, and band-aids are the only things that Blizzard is allowing Holinka to currently use. Just as Blizzard has stated in the past: you can't completely change a class/spec/mechanic mid-way through an expansion. It doesn't work like that. New expansions create time for new change. Give him a chance when Warlords comes out and then make a decision.

    This is coming from somebody that ACTUALLY knows about game design. I have a bachelors in game design. He had no part in MoP design, but he does for WoD. Don't judge him off of what somebody else created. Judge him on the fact that he is actively working to fix the problems that he inherited. He has fixed some of the problems. He can't fix them all with the limited availability of tools at his disposal. Give him a break. He is doing amazing.

  16. #96
    Herald of the Titans
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Dallas
    Posts
    2,509
    I said B. As a PVEer on a PVP realm I actually feel I have some chance at defending myself when I'm wandering about the world. In the past I would get blown up while my attacks seemed to barely scratch my attacker. Now I can at least hold my own while waiting for guildies to back me up or sometimes even end up getting a kill. During MoP I wouldn't be surprised if I doubled my HK count on my main that I've had since Classic, probably 90% of which were self-defence.

    It would have been an A if PVP wasn't the same old Stunlock CC fest it's always been. I might actually get into PVP some if they fixed that.
    Last edited by Amsden; 2014-07-04 at 01:01 AM.

  17. #97
    Fluffy Kitten Yvaelle's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Darnassus
    Posts
    11,331
    Obviously Holinka doesn't deserve the full fault for MoP PvP - he was hired on in like ~5.1 when PvP was already wrecked - and his power is restrained because Blizzard only makes small changes over the course of years, even when they know things are really wrong (which is a mistake, IMO).

    With that said, you can't excuse him from MoP PvP either - he's been around long enough - and he's made some really dumb comments during his time in this office. If Blizzard only puts people in the PvP office to create fall-guys to take the brunt of the complaints - like White House press correspondents - then shame on Blizzard: but it's still our job to be honest about our perspective of MoP PvP regardless of whether we think Holinka was empowered to effect it or not.

    I think Holinka lacks sufficient power to create meaningful improvements. I also think Holinka doesn't really see the problems - and/or doesn't see solutions to those problems. If he saw MoP PvP the way I do, and I think most people do - he would be fighting harder to fix it - he would be more vocal about the problems - and he would be pushing to try more solutions. Maybe he thinks if he speaks up he will lose his job or something - but the only conclusion I draw is that either he's oblivious, or inept, or a coward.

    Harsh, I know. MoP PvP is the worst competitive PvP in WoW history IMO - and the dumbing down in WOD doesn't promise to make it better: just easier to skill cap. Either it's Holinka's fault for not addressing it, or it's Holinka's fault for not fighting harder to fix it - but some chunk of the blame has to lie with him - and I can't give him a grade worth being proud of given that.
    Youtube ~ Yvaelle ~ Twitter

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    Obviously Holinka doesn't deserve the full fault for MoP PvP - he was hired on in like ~5.1 when PvP was already wrecked - and his power is restrained because Blizzard only makes small changes over the course of years, even when they know things are really wrong (which is a mistake, IMO).

    With that said, you can't excuse him from MoP PvP either - he's been around long enough - and he's made some really dumb comments during his time in this office. If Blizzard only puts people in the PvP office to create fall-guys to take the brunt of the complaints - like White House press correspondents - then shame on Blizzard: but it's still our job to be honest about our perspective of MoP PvP regardless of whether we think Holinka was empowered to effect it or not.

    I think Holinka lacks sufficient power to create meaningful improvements. I also think Holinka doesn't really see the problems - and/or doesn't see solutions to those problems. If he saw MoP PvP the way I do, and I think most people do - he would be fighting harder to fix it - he would be more vocal about the problems - and he would be pushing to try more solutions. Maybe he thinks if he speaks up he will lose his job or something - but the only conclusion I draw is that either he's oblivious, or inept, or a coward.

    Harsh, I know. MoP PvP is the worst competitive PvP in WoW history IMO - and the dumbing down in WOD doesn't promise to make it better: just easier to skill cap. Either it's Holinka's fault for not addressing it, or it's Holinka's fault for not fighting harder to fix it - but some chunk of the blame has to lie with him - and I can't give him a grade worth being proud of given that.
    This right here. People are giving him a hard time because of the state of MoP, but he literally was hired AT THE BEGINNING of MoP, and had to spend a few months learning how the game engine worked in order to give meaningful ideas. Since he has been around, EVERYTHING ive loved about MoP was introduced, and he has completely heard all of our feedback in MoP about CC, burst, and CDs, and was the main guy who was saying they were wanting to change that. The guy imo has been very good so far in his job.

    I do think that he could have pushed to make the changes that are coming in WoD BEFORE wod came out honestly though. Spending 2 years having all the instant CC and burst fest ruin the meta game, especially for certain specs so much so that balance for them has not been as bad as this since BC, is where I would fault him.

    A++++++++ for keeping pve gear out of pvp though. THAT was something I do not miss, and am so glad they have made sure has not occurred all this expac.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by monkieassasin View Post
    This right here. People are giving him a hard time because of the state of MoP, but he literally was hired AT THE BEGINNING of MoP,
    He made tons of terrible choices for changes and defended his terrible choices on twitter. You can't blame him for 5.0 but you sure can blame him for the rest as there were tons of terrible pvp only changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by monkieassasin View Post
    A++++++++ for keeping pve gear out of pvp though. THAT was something I do not miss, and am so glad they have made sure has not occurred all this expac.
    Yea too bad this was the worst pvp expansion ever in 10 years but grats at stopping pve gear and pvp being worse than it was with pve in it...

    Wod is not looking better on most of the issues mop has and like always new problems coming into to replace anything that was fixed. And before someone says its just beta people said the same thing in the betas for 2.0, 3.0, 4.0, 5.0 how did that turn out? 10 year record of failing at every first patch of expansions.
    Last edited by Wow; 2014-07-04 at 05:45 AM.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by wow View Post
    He made tons of terrible choices for changes and defended his terrible choices on twitter. You can't blame him for 5.0 but you sure can blame him for the rest as there were tons of terrible pvp only changes.


    Yea too bad this was the worst pvp expansion ever in 10 years but grats at stopping pve gear and pvp being worse than it was with pve in it...

    Wod is not looking better on most of the issues mop has and like always new problems coming into to replace anything that was fixed. And before someone says its just beta people said the same thing in the betas for 2.0, 3.0, 4.0, 5.0 how did that turn out? 10 year record of failing at every first patch of expansions.
    At least they ahve a dedicated PVP dev now, which for those other betas they did not. And on top of that, they have shown a remarkable amount of interest in making sure pvp is viable this time around compared to the other betas. In the other betas, you could swear that the only one who was really making the decisions was Watcher. If it was negative at all for PVE, then pvp was sacrificed everytime for it. I dont see that this time around, so I do think itll end up being different.
    And god i hope so. I love this game, and honestly they have a good chance to make a comeback to last a few more years if they get this expac right.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •