Subterfuge is stupid

[Deviant]

Probably will be significantly different since all it will give us is a few seconds of "Where is the hunter?" and we won't be using any strong openers (not destroying your HP pool) or stuns or the like.

Aimed shot + chimera does fucking damage and while you're stealthed and spamming cc we have deal with your partner. Playing find the hunter while a warrior is spamming damage into my face doesn't sounds balanced at all.

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It was really skilled for a wizard cleave to just spam aoes in a big radius around there entire team!

Well kind of back in wotlk/bc aoes cost a lot of mana. Caster had to drink back then but now it would be pretty skillless in mop.

[Archangel Tyrael]

It was really skilled for a wizard cleave to just spam aoes in a big radius around there entire team!

Yes, because only wizard cleaves exist in WoW.
Thanks for reminding us.

It's not like there are warriors, hunters, dk's, feral druids, enhanc shammies, other rogues etc in the game.
Nope. None whatsoever.

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Aimed shot + chimera does fucking damage and while you're stealthed and spamming cc we have deal with your partner. Playing find the hunter while a warrior is spamming damage into my face doesn't sounds balanced at all.

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Well kind of back in wotlk/bc aoes cost a lot of mana. Caster had to drink back then but now it would be pretty skillless in mop.

Why is your team letting the warrior sit on you?

[Deviant]

Yes, because only wizard cleaves exist in WoW.
Thanks for reminding us.

It's not like there are warriors, hunters, dk's, feral druids, enhanc shammies, other rogues etc in the game.
Nope. None whatsoever.

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Why is your team letting the warrior sit on you?

Have you seen warriors on live... Pretty sure it wouldn't be letting.

[Irian]

The amount of idiot-proofing the class went through over the years is downright baffling.

Okay, I get it, moving at 50% movespeed in stealth wasn't fun. So put stealth at normal movement speed.
Oh, then there's Nightstalker, which actually made you move faster while in stealth. Err...that seems odd, but okay.
Let's not forget Burst of Speed, the spammable, low-cost 70% movement speed increase. Well...okay, now they can move almost as fast as a ground mount in stealth. That seems weird.
But then they introduce Subterfuge too, making it so that a perceptive enemy can't even have a chance to break the rogue out of stealth. You have a momentary window where you can catch them and keep them out once you enter combat from hitting them in stealth, and fat chance you can actually exploit it.
Add to the fact that rogues win the majority of 1v1 matches if they can reliably get openers on an enemy target and you have just a downright obnoxious class to play against. There's no joy in fighting rogues. No satisfying moment where you outsmart all their tricks. Their tricks are idiot-proof now and they have every tool they could possibly need to 1v1 any class in the game except a tank (and to be fair, the tank won't kill them either).

In arenas this may be fine, but arenas are one tiny corner of WoW PvP, and christ, arenas have so many issues that I'm pretty sure that's not fine either.

[Veyne]

It was really skilled for a wizard cleave to just spam aoes in a big radius around there entire team!

"Using one of my class' primary weakness against me in PvP is not skillful and does not mean my opponent outplayed me, but using my class' natural strengths over most other classes against my opponents means I'm clearly skilled and I outplayed them."

I love the PvP community. Of any game.

[Deviant]

"Using one of my class' primary weakness against me in PvP is not skillful and does not mean my opponent outplayed me, but using my class' natural strengths over most other classes against my opponents means I'm clearly skilled and I outplayed them."

I love the PvP community. Of any game.

Warlocks rain of fire is an example of a skill less aoe dude. They can use it 3 times and they don't have to channel it at all. The only caster's that care about mana are hybrids. Everyone else can spam aoes and pretty much ignore resources.

[Deleted]

Except rogues can't, because they have to break their own stealth to AoE and sacrifice their opener. Hunters are 100% immune to single target abilities of any kind in Camo, no matter how obvious it is where they are standing.

well hunters are huntards, the most easiest class by far

[Deleted]

I did some arenas on beta and all I can say is that rogue without AT LEAST defensive part of Subterfuge is unplayable in current meta.

[Wow]

Yes, because only wizard cleaves exist in WoW.
Thanks for reminding us.

It's not like there are warriors, hunters, dk's, feral druids, enhanc shammies, other rogues etc in the game.
Nope. None whatsoever.

Actually if you look at high end arena its just casters and warriors up there...

[Wrien]

Subterfuge finally getting nerfed in WoD. It no longer makes you invisible (from a tweet)
Burst of Speed still not nerfed tho.

[Deleted]

Getting around the cloak.

yeah, the 10% failchance for cloak was pretty great and who got lucky really outplayed/outsmarted the rogue in that regard.

[Deleted]

Just remove any world pvp in wow and then buff rogues for arena.

Happy camping, wow pvp is for noobs

[freedumb123]

I also think it's stupid